Neteller And 24hr Poker Users Beware

[johnb1983 0]

Scary stuff, I also have a seperate bank account that I only use for neteller/firepay, but I usually keep money in it. I'm withdrawing what I have in my neteller account and taking all money out of that bank account ASAP

My Neteller is linked to my real bank account, the one that I use all the time. I never make deposits with it, only transfer money from Neteller to my bank account. That is part of the reason that I am so worried about this. That account is now closed, but I have really enjoyed the ease of use of Neteller and the lack of any fees or hassles when moving my money around between sites. This is really a shame and really a setback for online poker. It just gives more ammo for those that are looking to shut the whole thing down in the US. Very sad.Johnbtn

[stealfromblind 0]

wow you people are really freaking out. i've got a couple k on there and i'm not withdrawing it, neteller has always been good to me. this type of fraud happens all the time, don't get all retarded over it because someone posted about it. a guy that lives in my neighborhood and plays for a living got hit for 19k on party poker, so now party poker calls him on his cell before allowing any transactions. take the simple precautions and you will be fine.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

here's the problem. say some of the mod's on fcp or neverwin pull up the account info of a couple high rollers. well the password they used on fcp/neverwin is probably the same password thats registered with the email account that they used to sign up. and that email account, especially something like a college student account, is probably what they used to setup neteller. bingo bango bongo they have your neteller # and secure id #. the lesson is: don't use the same passwords, make sure you have your neteller account hooked up to a SECURE email account, and buy a hardware firewall.-steal

I'll take this opportunity to let everybody know how our procedures work at FCP and I hope put some minds to rest about our security.The information in the forum is accessed by very few people and that doesn't include the mods. I have admin status and I don't have access to your forum password. I'm not sure if Gov or Admin have access to passwords as that information may only be stored in an unretrievable format in the board. Even if they do have access there isn't an address for example listed in the forum database for players.Neither Gov nor Admin have any access to your FCP Poker accounts.Neteller shares very little information about players accounts with merchants for security reasons, just enough to verify that the information on your FCP poker account is consistent with what is on your Neteller account. When you use the secure ID when making a deposit at FCP no record of that number is kept by FCP. When you make a deposit you're using an interface that is supplied by Neteller to us as the merchant.Neteller is very security conscience. It's very common for Neteller to block accounts if somebody attempts to access them from locations that are foreign to the account holder.The reason that we have the procedures we have in place is to protect players against fraud. They sometimes cause players inconvenience but they're there to protect us all.The most likely way that a player's Neteller account information could be compromised is through either a malicious program on their computer or another computer that they have accessed such as a keylogger or other trojan or from a web based e-mail program such as Yahoo or Hotmail being hacked into. You should never store sensitive items such as the Neteller welcome e-mail that contains sensitive information on a web based e-mail program. I'm confident that Neteller will investigate these matters and treat the effected players fairly.BobFCP Poker Manager

[dan_thunder 0]

Would any of you who have already had your information stolen mind running some spyware removal program on your computer to find out if that may have been the problem? Let us know if it finds anything.

Not the problem on my computer. But - for a computer I've used to check my e-mail on a couple times somewhere else - with all the ad junk on there, now I'm positive there was a trojan/keylogger of sorts.

Is it just a coincidence that this is happening to guys with accounts at 24hr Poker? So far the three people who said this happened to them on this thread all have acounts at this poker site, so I wonder if maybe somehow they are at fault, or maybe their poker client is easy to hack?

I also did not have an account at 24h poker - although it was two different 24h poker sites. Jamba and something else...

[LadyGrey 6]

I don't know anything about Neteller, but you guys should definately stop using Yahoo mail. Yahoo email adresses are so easy to 'hack' that I did it once when I was 14. All you need is some basic personal info - d.o.b and location - to get to the change password screen. Then if the personal question is something like easy like your high school mascot then the 'hacker' is just a google search away from generating a new password. No hacking programs necessary.I had my hotmail account hacked recently (god knows how as I couldn't even remember the answer to my own personal question), so I would advise gmail. People have tried to get into my gmail account, but it has the best security out of the 3 so it didn't work.

[-HAL9000- 0]

I don't know how helpful this will be to others, but to make sure nothing like this happens to me, I have a separate bank account for electronic fund transfers. If I ever need to deposit, it only takes a second to transfer funds from my "real" bank account to my "EFT" bank account. When I withdraw from neteller, I just move that money out of the account. The account doesn't have any kind of overdraft provision (I made sure), so a request without my knowledge would just get denied.

I do the same thing too! No way in a million years would I use any of my bank accounts that carry daily balances to fund my netteller account. This separate checking account is not "linked" to any of my other accounts, I have to physically deposit and withdrawl money into and out of it.

[No_Neck 0]

The problem isn't with neteller, the problem is with your home machine.It isn't even close

[hblask 1]

Does anyone know how to trace the IP address? Or is that not possible or is it a waste of time?

It is possible, but will probably point you to an internet provider (such as AOL or your local IP). If they are cooperative, they could even track that to a user. After all the trouble, the most likely result would lead to some poor schmuck's machine that has been hijacked by someone in another part of the world. You could end up chasing this indefinitely, through one computer after another, so unless you have a couple of years to pursue this.... well, is it worth it? These people continue to succeed because they cover their tracks and it takes a persistent genius to catch them.

[fleung22 1]

I'm definitely surprised by the negative Neteller threads.Just in case...I never keep a lot of money in there you bastards!! Don't bother hacking me!!!Anyhow...I've had my Neteller account frozen several times because security felt it necessary. It's annoying but at the same time it makes me feel good that somebody IS paying attention to my account.

[krup24 0]

God Bless Firewalls

[rjohnny4321 0]

I love how people really believe that it could never happen to them.....I just hope everyone takes this for what it is worth. I used Neteller for a long time and had no worries and no problems. I thought it was secure. I thought it was safe....I didn't have any info stored in any email account.....The ONLY place my neteller ID has been is in my wallet behind 10 other things, and its still there....and the password wasn't on it.....The only other place I have put my ID is on poker sites when transferring money....Draw your own conclusions.....The purpose of this is not to be paranoid but to help others so the same thing doesn't happen to anyone else that we can reach.Good Luck.

[tv_nutrafin 0]

Is gmail actually more secure then the rest of them? If so how?

[mr_english 0]

Never had a problem, but I dont use them much anyway, I prefer direct from my debit card to my poker account.I did just log onto neteller to change the password and saw I had some cash in there so I just deposited that in my FCP account.I did just contact live chat and had my bank account details removed, this is what they told me"I just need to let you know that once the bank information is removed it cannot be re added again in the future and you will no longer be able to use your instaCASH"I have no problem with this.Something did occur to me and that is Neteller is located on the Isle of man in England so it would be 6pm saturday night there time, the name of the person helping out was not english and the way she/he worded the chat was not really quite right. I suspect that they are using a third world agency for tech support in which case just how secure is you info ?$600 to some countries is a lot of money, I know that my Union really kicked up a stink when our company did that with our personal info. They claimed our info was no longer secure the company eventually pulled it back in house.

[krup24 0]

Draw your own conclusions.....

Its simple you had a virusProtect your computer its worth the 100 bucks a year

[TeeSludge 0]

I too just got raped this morning in my neteller account.Total of $1500 charged through instacash and used on bet-on-casino.com and fivedimescasino.com.Neteller is giving me the total runaround and telling me they can't do anything until Monday when the Investigations people are in. I talked to my bank and they said if Neteller doesn't refund my money then I can file a claim for unauthorized funds. This is so f'n unbelievable.

[stealfromblind 0]

is this crap happening at neverwin and 2+2?

[Jordan 1]

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Felix'Felix: Welcome to our live chat service. How may we help you?Jordan Scott: Hi. How can I get rid of neteller instacash?[security questions]Felix: Thank you. Are you able to specify your request please?Jordan Scott: I have an instacash account. I want to get rid of it cause I'm hearing accounts of that getting hacked, and I don't need it. I have enough online that I don't need to use instacash ever again. But if I do, I can re-create it, and verify my bankaccount. So I'm just getting rid of it for my own peace of mind.Felix: We am able to remove your bank account for you so you are unable to use instaCASH but once we remove this bank account, you are unable to register that same bank account again, is that okay?Jordan Scott: waitFelix: Okay sir.Jordan Scott: Why? That' doesn't make sense. I can't pick and chose if I want to have an instacash account? It's either 100% yes, or 100% no? Is there a reason behind that?Felix: We do not take funds from your checking unless you authorize the transfer, please do not initiate an instaCASH deposit if you do not want to make an instaCASH transfer.Jordan Scott: If I get rid of it though, I can still make EFT transfers to and from my bank account to neteller and back though, correct?Felix: Unfortunately no, that is why I suggest you to simply not make any instaCASH deposits, if funds were charged from your checking account without your authorization, you simply just need to send in a bank statement showing this and we should be able to credit the funds back to you.Jordan Scott: I havn't had any issues. But other people have. I'm not going to make instaCASH deposits. But I want to get rid of it, so if I'm put in a situation where my account has been compromised, they can't do an instant deposit.Jordan Scott: But you are telling me I can't do that...Felix: One moment please while I check for you.Jordan Scott: OK. Please do. This is ridiculous, frankly. [ talk about confusion here, I think we both confused each other in the beginning]Felix: Thank you for waiting. I have just spoken to my supervisor and he suggested that we can lower your instaCASH limit to a permanent change but unfortunately to turn off your instaCASH privileges completely, that may be a permanent change to your account.Jordan Scott: ok. can you make the change to a limit of $100 or lessFelix: Please be aware that if we change your instaCASH limit to $100.00 then this change will be permanent, is that okay?Jordan Scott: Just let me restate some stuff before we agree to anything.Jordan Scott: First, what's the limit now? 10k? [ LoooooooooooL ]Felix: You currently have a limit of $750.00 within a 7 day rolling period.Jordan Scott: ok.Jordan Scott: So, if I take that down to $100, that means $100 a week, or $100 every day, per week?Felix: $100 within a 7 day rolling period.Felix: We are only able to change your weekly or monthly limit.Jordan Scott: Got ya.Jordan Scott: Now, if I do this, my EFT stuff won't be affected. Meaning, I'll still be able to transfer funds FROM neteller TO my bank account, and VICE VERSA, I'll just have to wait the 4-5 business days, correct?Felix: That is correct.Jordan Scott: On the other hand, if I cancel my instacash options completely, I lose my entire bank account?Jordan Scott: in regards to neteller, that is...and would have to make a new bank account that I specifically use with neteller.Felix: If you completely turn off your instaCASH, you will still be able to do an EFT deposit from and to your checking account, your instaCASH limit will be permanently turned off.Jordan Scott: Wait, I'm sorry. Now I'm confused a bit with what we said before. Let me restate everything and you tell me if I'm right.Jordan Scott: I can "trash" instaCASH now and still use my bank account for incoming and outgoing transfers, thru EFT.Felix: I apologize for the confusion, before you were afraid of your checking account being hacked, that is why I suggested to remove your bank account.Felix: That is correct.Jordan Scott: If I "trash" instaCASH, I will no longer be able to register instaCASH with said bankaccount again?Felix: Our service is very secure, not only do we use a military encryption with 128 bit for our web site to protect against online theft, we also have security agents monitoring the web site 24 hours, 7 days a week. You will also need three pieces of information to gain access to your account so not just anyone can login to your account.Felix: Yes, you are still able to use EFT deposits if you turn off your instaCASH permissions.Jordan Scott: And EFT deposists/withdraws take 4-5 business days, correct?Felix: EFT deposits take 4-5 business days and withdrawals take 1-2 business days.Jordan Scott: Ok, that's fine. I really doubt I'll need to make any more deposits to neteller, but you know. Just in case I'm curious.Jordan Scott: I guess the whole security thing kind of makes me nervous. I'm a poker player and have been hearing stories of people getting their instaCASH abused through people who somehow hacked their accounts.Jordan Scott: That's why I would like to get rid of instaCASH options.Felix: Our website is very secure, if you keep all your NETELLER account details to yourself, there should not be any problems.Jordan Scott: I would hope so. It's just disheartening to hear a few stories in a week about these problems.Felix: If you want us to turn off you instaCASH permissions permanently, we can do that for you now.Jordan Scott: Yea, that's fine. I have a withdraw right now from neteller to my account using EFT, will that be affected?Jordan Scott: bank account*Felix: No that will not be affected, I will ask my supervisor to turn off your instaCASH permissions permanently then.Jordan Scott: OK. thanks for your help. Hopefully I won't ever have any issues, but this was just a "leak" (from my view) that I wanted plugged.Jordan Scott: However truly big or small.Felix: That is understandable, we do monitor our web site 24 hours a day though to prevent these issues.Jordan Scott: Heh, well hopefully you can help my friend who just had $1500 stolen over the night.Jordan Scott: Anyways, whenever you can get rid of instaCASH, I'm ready.Felix: If it was an issue with NETELLER, please tell him to contact us through phone so we can help investigate his situation.Felix: I have informed my supervisor with your request, he should be removing your instaCASH permissions shortly.Jordan Scott: well, he has, but it's my understanding that neteller is so secure that it could only be on the client side, so if anything does happen, the client is mostly screwed.Jordan Scott: Which is why I'm getting rid of instaCASH. Do you need anything else from me, or is everything good to go?Felix: I am sorry to hear that sir. Everything is good to go, your instaCASH permissions should be turned off in 10 minutes or so. [im sure you are]Jordan Scott: Alright, thanks. Bye.--bye bye instaCASH. I suggest you do the same.- JordanFelix: You're welcome. Thank you for choosing NETELLER!

[Smokewagons 0]

Thanks for posting that Jordan. I was wondering though, why do you feel safer eliminating INSTAcash when they could still steal the money through an EFT? Is it because it takes longer and you have time to stop it?I'm going to try and get neteller to set up something where they would need to call me personally and verify before pulling any money out of my account. I'll let you guys know if they agree to that

[Jordan 1]

Thanks for posting that Jordan. I was wondering though, why do you feel safer eliminating INSTAcash when they could still steal the money through an EFT? Is it because it takes longer and you have time to stop it?I'm going to try and get neteller to set up something where they would need to call me personally and verify before pulling any money out of my account. I'll let you guys know if they agree to that

Yes. I'd see it well ahead of time.Now the only real issue would them be depositing to a poker site or something from my neteller account...so, bleh. Just depends on how much you wanna keep online.- Jordan

[Smokewagons 0]

Well they wouldn't let me set up any sort of calling verification or even an email notification so I could stop it before it cleared, but I did get to disable the instacash option. So I guess now I just need to keep closer tabs on things. Thanks for all who have brought this to the attention of us and good luck clearing everything up. I wish this thread was left on the general page so more people could see it

[rjohnny4321 0]

I wish this thread was left on the general page so more people could see it

No kidding.........

[finztotheleft 0]

I think that those of us that have been hit need to get to together and present a unifed case to Neteller so we get some answers. Can someone suggest the best way to do this please....thanks...

Count me in! We can look for other similarities too. Stupidly, I did save acct number for neteller in my yahoo email.....the password isn't there though. I found 20 viruses with a trojan when I ran a scan yesterday that were not there approx one month ago when I did a scan. When I brought up Norton antivirus it said I neede to renew it. My 10 year old used my computer about a week ago to download music. He swears he didn't click on anything, but who knows. I don't understand what the problem is at 24 poker...why can't they trace who the money was transferred to or lost to ? No one who is smart enough to hack all of this could then just loose it all playing poker poorly, can they ?

[finztotheleft 0]

The problem isn't with neteller, the problem is with your home machine.It isn't even close

I certainly agree that it is much more likely someone broke into my computer than the Neteller system. I just think their security might have caught some irregularities/issues....like I have never made another withdrawal from my bank acct since the first one almost 2 years ago. Why would I transfer $900 to my bank acct from neteller, then turn around and instacash $750 (plus 66.75 fee for $816.65) back to neteller from my bank ? Is it the same IP address making all of these transactions ? Hopefully, their fraud department will be aggressive in pursuing this with 24 hour poker

[tv_nutrafin 0]

Great post Jordan, what exactly is INSTACASH anyways?

[fishNchips 0]

I been in this business awhile now. I read this at another forum and decided to join here. See, one good thing did come out of it, lol.First, Neteller is SSL encrypted. It is 100% safe. Forums have zero access to passwords and it did not happen there.I do not know this person, so do not take anything offensive, this is general comments about seeing past experiences. It happened 1 of 3 ways.1. Info gained from a Trojan Horse/Spyware from your computer and they opened an account at 24Hr and used your keystroke info.Solution: Maintain and run atleast weekly a firewall such as Norton Internet Security and run a spyware removal tool such as Adaware and/or Spybot. Spyware alot of times will hitchhike in on a email attachment and unknown downloads. Be careful of what you open. They can't harm your computer until the file is opened.2. You used a friends or 3rd party computer and windows remembered the info.Solution: Don't do banking anywhere but home. Neteller, your computer will remember the Acct ID and password, but NOT the Secure ID. They would of physically watched you enter that info.3. This is what happens the majority of the time. Joe Gambler will collude at the poker room and get his account locked. Or lose a bunch of money quick. In retalliation, he will make up a cockamainy story trying to harm the place. I can't count the times I investigated to help fellow players just to find out this is what happened.Solution: Don't gamble or be a man and suck up the loss.Go here and, this guy is a casino/poker room advocate. He's settled many casino/pokerroom problems over the years.http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/