Lookin For Someone To Tell Me Theyve Been Through Worse

[Kaedin 0]

Hi all. Little history. Ive been playing online poker now for about a year. I started out with $25, when i doubled that, i withdrew $25, and was on a freeroll. Sticking with decent BR management, playing penny games and $1 SNGs, i slowly moved up, going to the nickel/dime and $5 sngs, etc...In March, my BR reached $1700. When it hit $1200, i probably did my first bad BR management move, and played $100 NL. For 3 weeks, i continued to win, when it hit the $1700.As we sit today, my BR is $300. I havent had a winning session since. I havent changed my play style, I havent gone horribly on tilt (if i start losing big, i focus more). Its not all just bad beats. I took a week break, today I played for 15minutes. I dropped $80 more at $50NL. My first 5 hands: QQ in CO, BB had KK. AQ in hijack, turned broadway, villain pushed my bet, hit his draw. JJ, lost to 55 who flopped a set. 99. I flop a set on a board of A97. All the money gets in, he has A9, turn A. I know, I know. Bad beat forum is down the road. Its not just bad beats. 4 set over sets in my last 2 sessions. My last 5 QQs have all been coolers. I hate to sound like a whiner, but i just feel helpless. I lose with big pairs, sets, nut straights, i lose flush over flush, ever hand i play seems to have reverse implied odds, and the key card hits every time.(For those thinking over a year and only from 25 to 1700, i have a wife and a 10month old son, so i dont play as much as id like (well, right now i dont wanna play at all heh)). Anyhow, this is Kaedin's pity party, so join in the fun.Tell me i suck, tell me its happened to you, tell me about your last midnight trist with a farm animal, im opened to whatever you wanna throw at me.edit: before anyone says it, yes, im now moving -down- in limits to accomodate my roll.

[Scott3705 0]

I went on a 10k upswing about a month ago. (I only keep $2K in my online account) then proceeded to drop about 10 (1/2 buyins) playing SH games about two weeks ago. It happens. My suggestion, when that happens, muster all your courage and put 1/3 of your remaining bankroll into one black jack hand. That's what I did.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Move down, rebuild BR + confidence...make monies. Seriously, almost every player on this site has gone through this process multiple times.I've been playing a year and a half. I had my biggest upswing ever three weeks ago. That was followed by my biggest downswing ever over the next two weeks. I'm finally upswinging again this past week.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

My suggestion, when that happens, muster all your courage and put 1/3 of your remaining bankroll into one black jack hand. That's what I did.

Scott... this is bad advice if someone has no idea how to play blackjack. OP, downswings happen... I'm on one now for the last month. Also, just look at DN. Last years WSOP... hardly any cashes. It happens to the best of players.

[Dratj 0]

I went on a 10k upswing about a month ago. (I only keep $2K in my online account) then proceeded to drop about 10 (1/2 buyins) playing SH games about two weeks ago. It happens. My suggestion, when that happens, muster all your courage and put 1/3 of your remaining bankroll into one black jack hand. That's what I did.

not even funny. BJ is the devil. I feel the same way you do Kaedin. I feel like there is a leak in my game. Read my post, I'm in despair like you. Poker feels like a slow downward grind right now. Maybe you will feel better after you see my story.

[Scott3705 0]

Scott... this is bad advice if someone has no idea how to play blackjack. OP, downswings happen... I'm on one now for the last month. Also, just look at DN. Last years WSOP... hardly any cashes. It happens to the best of players.

Fine... I'll give real advice. 1. I find nothing wrong with attacking higher limits w/o adequate BR just to give it a shot. But as soon as you take a hit, drop down immediately. In your case, after you hit that 17 and took your first hit in the arm, you should have droopped to .25/.502. When I found myself getting set over set, flush over flush, etc. I found i was playing in a very loose passive table. These can be good, but I think you have to actually tighten up when they get like this (Only exception limping with Ax suited). I even chuck 22-55 in these games because I lost way too many set over sets that I couldn't let go of. I think I folded once out of about 25 times where I thought I was beat. Suited connectors, throw them away. They get you in trouble. *don't take any of this advice tho if this wasn't the type of game you were playing.3. With $300 left, I'd say attacking .25/.50 is ok if you're willing to reload later. If not, then I'd say go to .1/.25. (Only reason I suggest trying to stay a little higher than you BR would really allow is because I think at .1/.25 you're going to try to build too fast and start playing far too loose. JMO).

[Smasharoo 0]

2. When I found myself getting set over set, flush over flush, etc. I found i was playing in a very loose passive table. These can be good, but I think you have to actually tighten up when they get like this (Only exception limping with Ax suited). I even chuck 22-55 in these games because I lost way too many set over sets that I couldn't let go of. I think I folded once out of about 25 times where I thought I was beat. Suited connectors, throw them away. They get you in trouble.That's about the worst advice possible for playing a loose passive table.good luck.

[Scott3705 0]

2. When I found myself getting set over set, flush over flush, etc. I found i was playing in a very loose passive table. These can be good, but I think you have to actually tighten up when they get like this (Only exception limping with Ax suited). I even chuck 22-55 in these games because I lost way too many set over sets that I couldn't let go of. I think I folded once out of about 25 times where I thought I was beat. Suited connectors, throw them away. They get you in trouble.That's about the worst advice possible for playing a loose passive table.good luck.

Why?In a loose passive table, what are we playing suited connectors for? A str8. Flushes are outflushed too often and we can never be comfortable with any two pair. Get some hands in at these types of tables start hitting flushes and seeing your money go away before you make a post. good luck.

[rkard 0]

Don't dwell on the lost 1400, try to embrace your downswing and let it be a defining experience. If you didn't gain strength from even just one of those dollars then maybe poker isn't for you.

[NoSup4U 0]

As with others here, my best month ever was followed up by my worst ever, practically breaking me emotionally and financially with regards to my bankroll. This is why its a hard way to make an easy living. Unless you have much more internal strength than the average joe, I think part of getting 'good' at poker is going through this cycle a few times and building up the strength to deal with it. Hang in there, and just play when you are comfortable and at a limit that can't bust your roll and you'll be ok.We all can relate and feel for you. Mark

[Actuary 3]

Scott...Loose pasives tables are ideal for suited connectors and low pocket pairs.You get to chase cheaply and get paid off.If the table is aggressive (preflop especially) you often won't get such awesome implied odds. - but on PP's often still ok for set value as the aggression will help you on the back endNot following you at all.

[Scott3705 0]

Scott...Loose pasives tables are ideal for suited connectors and low pocket pairs.You get to chase cheaply and get paid off.If the table is aggressive (preflop especially) you often won't get such awesome implied odds. - but on PP's often still ok for set value as the aggression will help you on the back endNot following you at all.

i was speaking more to the over the top passive tables where6-8 people regularly see an unraised pot. I may have been out of line w/ the 22-55, but playing in a game like that I found myself outset almost 25 times in a span of a month and a half. In this type of game, I think suited connectors go to crap and Axs goes WAY up.

[Smasharoo 0]

Why?In a loose passive table, what are we playing suited connectors for? A str8. Flushes are outflushed too often and we can never be comfortable with any two pair. Get some hands in at these types of tables start hitting flushes and seeing your money go away before you make a post.I have. It hasn't.Your anecdotal experience of making a lot of second best hands and deciding to change your play based on variance is a good way to continue to barely scrape by in games you should be kiling.Your bad luck doesn't figure into what the correct theory is. Sorry.good luck.

[Scott3705 0]

Why?In a loose passive table, what are we playing suited connectors for? A str8. Flushes are outflushed too often and we can never be comfortable with any two pair. Get some hands in at these types of tables start hitting flushes and seeing your money go away before you make a post.I have. It hasn't.Your anecdotal experience of making a lot of second best hands and deciding to change your play based on variance is a good way to continue to barely scrape by in games you should be kiling.Your bad luck doesn't figure into what the correct theory is. Sorry.good luck.

Improving your games is experiencing something and adjusting. This to me meant that when I found myself in tables that we're going psuedo family almost every hand, that you can't play small suited connectors for a flush,2 pair or even trips in a lot of cases, as confidentally because you're up against 6-8 people. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. more people, more cards. This is in Limit SS1.

[DonkSlayer 1]

This one time i was doing shoulder shrugs with dumbells, and I accidentally pinched my main man between the two when i was bring them up.That was probably worse, at least for that moment in time.

[Chief 0]

This one time i was doing shoulder shrugs with dumbells, and I accidentally pinched my main man between the two when i was bring them up.That was probably worse, at least for that moment in time.

you pinched Daniel Negreanu?

[Smasharoo 0]

Improving your games is experiencing something and adjusting.This is exactly wrong in holdem. The nature of the game is experiencing something, understanding the theory behind it, deciding the right play based on that, and ignoring the results.I found myself in tables that we're going psuedo family almost every hand, that you can't play small suited connectors for a flush,2 pair or even trips in a lot of cases, as confidentally because you're up against 6-8 people. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. more people, more cards.Bigger pots.Get it yet?Winning 2 45bb pots is better than winning three 20bb ones.With me so far?Adjusting your play based on "what happened to me when I played 1000 hands at these games" is foolish unles you expect that your personal experience happened to play out at dead even exact probablity. If you can't fold a 9 high flush to a big raise, stop playing NL.good luck.

[petersun 0]

I think most of us here have gone through your experience. I find this to be a typical cycle:1. Have early success in low limits. Build bankroll reasonably quickly. You have an occassional series of losing sessions, but not enough to scare you.2. You discover that at higher limits, the fish are still there and that you can win there too. Your bankroll doesn't justify it, but you go play anyway. At first you're winning, and you say to yourself "Why didn't I try this sooner."3. You have a series of sessions where the odds are just catching up to you. Unfortunately, they are at the higher limit so the losses are faster. All that hard work is gone.You're at step 4....4. You learn that you need an adequate bankroll to move up, you grind again at the lower level to build that. You occassionally drop a buy in at a higher limit to build a little quicker but also to learn. You use your higher limit experience to learn to dominate the lower game.This past January, I lost almost my entire bankroll playing a limit that was clearly beyond my bankroll. But I learned a hell of a lot. When I returned to the lower limit, I recovered my entire bankroll within a month. What took me six months to build the first time only took a month the second time.I hope your experience will be similar. Just remember, you're still on a freeroll, and the game is also entertainment.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I think most of us here have gone through your experience. I find this to be a typical cycle:1. Have early success in low limits. Build bankroll reasonably quickly. You have an occassional series of losing sessions, but not enough to scare you.2. You discover that at higher limits, the fish are still there and that you can win there too. Your bankroll doesn't justify it, but you go play anyway. At first you're winning, and you say to yourself "Why didn't I try this sooner."3. You have a series of sessions where the odds are just catching up to you. Unfortunately, they are at the higher limit so the losses are faster. All that hard work is gone.You're at step 4....4. You learn that you need an adequate bankroll to move up, you grind again at the lower level to build that. You occassionally drop a buy in at a higher limit to build a little quicker but also to learn. You use your higher limit experience to learn to dominate the lower game.This past January, I lost almost my entire bankroll playing a limit that was clearly beyond my bankroll. But I learned a hell of a lot. When I returned to the lower limit, I recovered my entire bankroll within a month. What took me six months to build the first time only took a month the second time.I hope your experience will be similar. Just remember, you're still on a freeroll, and the game is also entertainment.

I like it a lot.

[Actuary 3]

winning just 1 - 40 BB pot with 4 to show downbeats the hell out of winning 1 50 BB pot HU from preflop to SD.

[Kaedin 0]

lots of replies!just to clarify, my BR management is generally atleast 15 buy ins for NL. As soon as I dropped from 1700 to 1200 i stopped playing $100 NL and went back to 50NL, and continued to get pounded. It wasnt a case where I sat down one night at a 2 or $400 game, lost 3 buy ins, and ran over a naked david williams with a bus.also, thanks for some of the advice/nice words!one more point: I didnt lose 5 or 7 buy ins and dramatically change my game. I stayed fairly TAG. We all have leaks, but i didnt go blow my wad with 46os in a raised pot on a board of A Q 4. Most of the big pots i lost were coolers or really painful suck outs... (I played again today, A9 in the BB, flop A97, i bet out, guy raises (he's relatively short, so i put him all in, he calls), turn 7.. he had A7. Thats been how its goin for me)

[Dratj 0]

lots of replies!just to clarify, my BR management is generally atleast 15 buy ins for NL. As soon as I dropped from 1700 to 1200 i stopped playing $100 NL and went back to 50NL, and continued to get pounded.

Ummm, shouldn't you have dropped down when you hit 1500 then? I would say have at least 2K to be borderline safe. Take a break from the game. I think I will too.maybe play some cheap sng's and such.

[Kaedin 0]

Ummm, shouldn't you have dropped down when you hit 1500 then? I would say have at least 2K to be borderline safe. Take a break from the game. I think I will too.maybe play some cheap sng's and such.

yea, my first post said that i moved to the game earlier, and i waited till i knew i was in a downswing to move down

[iggymcfly 0]

I think most of us here have gone through your experience. I find this to be a typical cycle:1. Have early success in low limits. Build bankroll reasonably quickly. You have an occassional series of losing sessions, but not enough to scare you.2. You discover that at higher limits, the fish are still there and that you can win there too. Your bankroll doesn't justify it, but you go play anyway. At first you're winning, and you say to yourself "Why didn't I try this sooner."3. You have a series of sessions where the odds are just catching up to you. Unfortunately, they are at the higher limit so the losses are faster. All that hard work is gone.You're at step 4....4. You learn that you need an adequate bankroll to move up, you grind again at the lower level to build that. You occassionally drop a buy in at a higher limit to build a little quicker but also to learn. You use your higher limit experience to learn to dominate the lower game.This past January, I lost almost my entire bankroll playing a limit that was clearly beyond my bankroll. But I learned a hell of a lot. When I returned to the lower limit, I recovered my entire bankroll within a month. What took me six months to build the first time only took a month the second time.I hope your experience will be similar. Just remember, you're still on a freeroll, and the game is also entertainment.

The first three are all right. But for me it's:4. Slowly rebuild your bankroll and start using reasonable BR management, but still play high enough that your BR's in a decent deal of jeopardy, and a big loss is hard to take emotionally.5. Lose 2/3 of your BR over the course of a few days playing too high and doing a little tilting. Instead of moving down, decide that you just need a big win to get back where you were and move up. Lose the rest of your BR on one bad beat. Ask yourself why the f*ck you didn't learn anything the first time. 6. Slowly try to rebuild your BR again. Promise yourself that if you get a couple thousand together again, you'll be careful with it, and you'll never move up limits again unless you're winning consistently at the level you're at and have a really solid BR for the next level.7. TP/MMI'm on Step 6 right now.

[Scott3705 0]

Improving your games is experiencing something and adjusting.This is exactly wrong in holdem. The nature of the game is experiencing something, understanding the theory behind it, deciding the right play based on that, and ignoring the results.I found myself in tables that we're going psuedo family almost every hand, that you can't play small suited connectors for a flush,2 pair or even trips in a lot of cases, as confidentally because you're up against 6-8 people. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. more people, more cards.Bigger pots.Get it yet?Winning 2 45bb pots is better than winning three 20bb ones.With me so far?Adjusting your play based on "what happened to me when I played 1000 hands at these games" is foolish unles you expect that your personal experience happened to play out at dead even exact probablity. If you can't fold a 9 high flush to a big raise, stop playing NL.good luck.

Do you seriously think I'm basing this on 1000 hands. I was oversetted 20-25 times in a span of 1.5 months. Do you really think that happens over 1000 hands? I would easily be able to chalk that up to obscene variance. No one would ever understand the right play unless they looked at results. I'm not saying I got sucked out on, I'm not saying that I ran into a set when I had AA a couple times during a session. I am speaking to a long period of a large number of hands. When I see something like this over a long period, I can't ignore it. Get it yet?Winning 2 45bb pots is better than winning three 20bb ones.With me so far?this has nothing to do with my argument what so ever. Putting questions behind statements does not make you're argument any more persuasive.