The Christian Poker Player

[Mercury69 3]

Lone Trout! Is that Sara Silverman as your icon? If not, who? I dig it.

[herokid7 0]

*******************************That's a pretty sweet deal there...cause...you're just NOT gonna get that phone call!!!

Very interesting. You see, there is someone here on earth called the Holy Spirit, who does talk to me, maybe not in a audible voice, but He is God's messenger today. Everytime I sin, I get a pain in my gut and an unbelieveable conviction, that is the Holy Spirit. This is how God speaks to me. The more you pray, the more you read the Bible, the easier it is to "hear" Him. I don't expect non-Christians to understand this, because it is a very deep reality. But, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt how true it is.

where does it say Jesus was poor? they had a treasurer(Judas) for goodness sakes.

You're very right on this point. Judas was the treasurer, and Matthew was a tax collector, a VERY rich position in those times. Plus Jesus was a carpenter. A carpenter was also a very good job. He may not have been wealthy, but He definitly was not poor.

Wrong. Then it would just have said needlegate. A needle has an eye, that's the opening in which you slip string through, a needlegate had no part reffered to as a n eye. The fact is that it is hard to have alot of money and not give in to various temptations, plain and simple. That's easy enough to see and understand.

The nickname for a "needlegate" was the "eye of the needle." I go to a Christian college and have heard this explanation several times. It is just plain historical fact. Also in the english translations we don't get a lot of the original Greek and Hebrew text. In the Greek New Testament, this concept was actually explained by Jesus. The English Translators, however, thought the point would just come across well enough without the excess verbage.

[turd ferguson 1]

Very interesting. You see, there is someone here on earth called the Holy Spirit, who does talk to me, maybe not in a audible voice, but He is God's messenger today. Everytime I sin, I get a pain in my gut and an unbelieveable conviction, that is the Holy Spirit. This is how God speaks to me. The more you pray, the more you read the Bible, the easier it is to "hear" Him. I don't expect non-Christians to understand this, because it is a very deep reality. But, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt how true it is.Does it really seem plausible to you the a "Holy Ghost" inhabits your brain to tell you what to do and keep you in line so you don't sin? Or is it possible that you have been trained to think a certain way, and guilt is so deeply ingrained in your personality that it feels awful when you "sin."Seriously, think logically here. Which option sounds ridiculous? God and religion are tools used by societies to keep people in line. The government can't always be there, but God can so mind your manners or you'll go to hell! Do you think it's just some odd coincidence that the power a government has over its population is directly indicative of the type of God that society worships? The nickname for a "needlegate" was the "eye of the needle." I go to a Christian college and have heard this explanation several times. It is just plain historical fact. Also in the english translations we don't get a lot of the original Greek and Hebrew text. In the Greek New Testament, this concept was actually explained by Jesus. The English Translators, however, thought the point would just come across well enough without the excess verbage.

Isn't it great how you can decide which parts of the Bible to take literally and which ones to interpret according to your personal preference? It's not a historical fact. Don't be silly. You can interpret it however you want. That's a fact.

[Mattnxtc 0]

New law still has rules and guidlines which need to followed, saved by grace or not. It's purpose? Show people how to be right with God until Jesus comes back. Thi fight to live as close to christlike as possible does not stop when you are saved- it's only a starting point, and you can fall from grace. How easily? That's up to God.Paul was speaking of the Old law, Jesus brought wiyth him a New Law, legalities and all. You know what I think of when I think of of the term legalistic? That's just a person who chooses not to listen to ALL of God's laws, just what they believe applies. Which is not a the way of Christian at all. [/quoteI think you miss the idea of The Law completely. It told you what you could or cannot due. It had to. We didnt have a concept of what righteousness was so it was a necessity to have it. With the coming of Jesus, the Law was fulfilled and in came Jesus. Yes he brought with him new rules but nothing near like The Law. I am in no way saying that you are now free to sin as that is not Christlike...What i am merely saying is that we are free of the Laws that were necessary before the coming of Jesus. Galatians specifically talks about the fact that the Laws were necessary to build to Jesus's coming in which He would supercede The Laws

[herokid7 0]

Isn't it great how you can decide which parts of the Bible to take literally and which ones to interpret according to your personal preference? It's not a historical fact. Don't be silly. You can interpret it however you want. That's a fact.

Again, very hard to explain the Holy Spirit to a non-Christian. It's like trying to describe the color red to a blind person.

[turd ferguson 1]

Again, very hard to explain the Holy Spirit to a non-Christian. It's like trying to describe the color red to a blind person.

I get the premise. I grew up a Christian in a Christian home. My dad is a pastor. I understand what you're going for. I just think it's ridiculous.

[herokid7 0]

I get the premise. I grew up a Christian in a Christian home. My dad is a pastor. I understand what you're going for. I just think it's ridiculous.

Well, I respectfully disagree.

[turd ferguson 1]

Well, I respectfully disagree.

Fair enough. The Holy Spirit isn't something that is easily debated. How about this point I made earlier then? I'm not trying to cause trouble or be rude, but you never addressed this.God and religion are tools used by societies to keep people in line. The government can't always be there, but God can so mind your manners or you'll go to hell! Do you think it's just some odd coincidence that the power a government has over its population is directly indicative of the type of God that society worships?

[MasterLJ 0]

where does it say Jesus was poor? they had a treasurer(Judas) for goodness sakes.

You'd be harder pressed to find portions of the Bible that show he wasn't poor.Seriously, pick it up every once in a while it's strewn all about.

[herokid7 0]

Fair enough. The Holy Spirit isn't something that is easily debated. How about this point I made earlier then? I'm not trying to cause trouble or be rude, but you never addressed this.God and religion are tools used by societies to keep people in line. The government can't always be there, but God can so mind your manners or you'll go to hell! Do you think it's just some odd coincidence that the power a government has over its population is directly indicative of the type of God that society worships?

I just don't think that argument holds much water. For one thing, Christians constantly have to battle the govt. for things we believe are right, i.e. abortion, prayer in schools, yada yada. Secondly, it sounds a lot like something from the X-Files. The govt. creating a god to keep the people in line, sounds like something str8 from mulder's brain. Plus there are some things I think Christians should not do that the govt really doesn't care if you do. Like have premarital sex or commit adultery. Bottomline, I'm not a proponent of "religion" per se, meaning, just a bunch of rituals and sacraments won't do anything for anybody. I think that probably is what turned you off from it while growing up in a Christian home. Chrisitanity is about a relationship with Christ, and that has to be experienced, not force-fed.

[turd ferguson 1]

I just don't think that argument holds much water. For one thing, Christians constantly have to battle the govt. for things we believe are right, i.e. abortion, prayer in schools, yada yada. Secondly, it sounds a lot like something from the X-Files. The govt. creating a god to keep the people in line, sounds like something str8 from mulder's brain. Plus there are some things I think Christians should not do that the govt really doesn't care if you do. Like have premarital sex or commit adultery. Bottomline, I'm not a proponent of "religion" per se, meaning, just a bunch of rituals and sacraments won't do anything for anybody. I think that probably is what turned you off from it while growing up in a Christian home. Chrisitanity is about a relationship with Christ, and that has to be experienced, not force-fed.

Take an anthropology class or two. You'll see what I'm talking about. A society in which the government is less powerful has gods that are the same way. If a society has multiple leaders they worship multiple gods. If their government is an autocracy they have one all-powerful god. The religion is a reflection of the government. It doesn't sound at all like a conspiracy theory to me. It's not far fetched at all. What do you do when you want to keep a small child in bed? You tell him there is a boogeyman waiting for him if he tries to leave the room. It's the same principle. Abide by the rules even when nobody is watching or God is gonna getcha.Secondly, my parents never force fed me religion. My parents are deeply spiritual but they can't stand religion and all its rules. I agree with them on that aspect, but I just don't think God exists. It isn't logical.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I think ull find that while some might generalize religion to the type of scenerio that Turd has come up with you will find that Judaism and also Christianity are in fact the opposite of the "Govt keeping us inline"Before Christainity was a part of Rome, It was custom to once a year throw a pinch of incinse into a fire and say "Ceasar is God" Well all religions did this except Jews. Why? B/c the Jews were willing to fight to the death for thier religion...They would not submit in that aspect to anybody. Same thing with Christianity. Christians in the early church were persecuted for not going with what the government said. Now of course if you look the Bible says to honor people and honor the king...but it says to Love the Brethren and Fear God (fear is in revere not fear how we think). Youll find that throughout Judaism/Christianity that they didnt just fall the lead of the Leaders. The rebelled when their religion was threatened

[Loismustdie 0]

Without being downright antagonistic I must say that you seem to justify these scripture quotes in ways that are most beneficial and accepting to you. It's really a chicken or the egg type philosophy. Are you justifying, or you subjectively interpretting scripture? I think it's the former.Jesus was a poor carpenter. I don't even need to bust out the scripture on how adamant the Bible is on following in his footsteps.

Really, all that scripture is saying is that he wasn't very good at it- see how I could skew the meaning if I wanted to give a reason why pastors need to make 6 figures and a cut of the gate?

I think ull find that while some might generalize religion to the type of scenerio that Turd has come up with you will find that Judaism and also Christianity are in fact the opposite of the "Govt keeping us inline"Before Christainity was a part of Rome, It was custom to once a year throw a pinch of incinse into a fire and say "Ceasar is God" Well all religions did this except Jews. Why? B/c the Jews were willing to fight to the death for thier religion...They would not submit in that aspect to anybody. Same thing with Christianity. Christians in the early church were persecuted for not going with what the government said. Now of course if you look the Bible says to honor people and honor the king...but it says to Love the Brethren and Fear God (fear is in revere not fear how we think). Youll find that throughout Judaism/Christianity that they didnt just fall the lead of the Leaders. The rebelled when their religion was threatened

No, Matt, fear still means fear- he wouldn't be ending the world with fire if he wasn't going for fear. Have I mentioned that I can't stand religion?

Take an anthropology class or two. You'll see what I'm talking about. A society in which the government is less powerful has gods that are the same way. If a society has multiple leaders they worship multiple gods. If their government is an autocracy they have one all-powerful god. The religion is a reflection of the government. It doesn't sound at all like a conspiracy theory to me. It's not far fetched at all. What do you do when you want to keep a small child in bed? You tell him there is a boogeyman waiting for him if he tries to leave the room. It's the same principle. Abide by the rules even when nobody is watching or God is gonna getcha.Secondly, my parents never force fed me religion. My parents are deeply spiritual but they can't stand religion and all its rules. I agree with them on that aspect, but I just don't think God exists. It isn't logical.

Your parents were very mean to you Turd, and there is no Boogeyman I promise.

[turd ferguson 1]

Your parents were very mean to you Turd, and there is no Boogeyman I promise.

Really? Oh thank God! By "God" of course I mean "Superman."

[JoeWalsh 0]

This line had me laughing:

Thus, she is disgusted that spend 30 or 40 hours a week sinning.

Nothing personal, it just sounds so funny.

[Mattnxtc 0]

No, Matt, fear still means fear- he wouldn't be ending the world with fire if he wasn't going for fear. Have I mentioned that I can't stand religion?

this is wrong lois...I know you think our translations are perfect but that is the very wrong approach to take...the greek word used in 1 Peter 2:17 is fobeo or fobevw which means: (to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience)The word for fear as we understand it is actually found in 1 Peter 3:6 where Paul sayins "...if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear." or in the kjv it is "..are not afraid with any amazement"the word fear and amazement are actually translations of the same wordThat word in greek is ptoesiß which means: (to be afraid of with terror)A quick example of why it is necessary to look to the greek can easily be displayed from a simple little game1 Peter 1:1...Pauls uses the word "strangers" if you have the kjv or aliens in nasb1 Peter 2:11... Paul again uses the word "strangers" if you have kjv or aliens in nasbNow lois...are these the same 2 words or not? Both are the same in english so what do we assume that it meansYou cant stand religion only b/c u seem to wanna find out everything on ur own..thats fine except that you seem to avoid the major steps in order to understand and then complain when somebody with more knowledge corrects you (not referring to myself but in general)

[Loismustdie 0]

this is wrong lois...I know you think our translations are perfect but that is the very wrong approach to take...the greek word used in 1 Peter 2:17 is fobeo or fobevw which means: (to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience)The word for fear as we understand it is actually found in 1 Peter 3:6 where Paul sayins "...if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear." or in the kjv it is "..are not afraid with any amazement"the word fear and amazement are actually translations of the same wordThat word in greek is ptoesiß which means: (to be afraid of with terror)A quick example of why it is necessary to look to the greek can easily be displayed from a simple little game1 Peter 1:1...Pauls uses the word "strangers" if you have the kjv or aliens in nasb1 Peter 2:11... Paul again uses the word "strangers" if you have kjv or aliens in nasbNow lois...are these the same 2 words or not? Both are the same in english so what do we assume that it meansYou cant stand religion only b/c u seem to wanna find out everything on ur own..thats fine except that you seem to avoid the major steps in order to understand and then complain when somebody with more knowledge corrects you (not referring to myself but in general)

God deals in fear as much as anything else- why the threat of hell? Because he is playing nice? And, for the record, religion for the most part has no clue, that much you can be sure of. And, for the record, not once have you proven me wrong on anything and I am not the only one to tell you that. Major steps....LOL. You can't even get the basics right.

[Loismustdie 0]

God deals in fear as much as anything else- why the threat of hell? Because he is playing nice? And, for the record, religion for the most part has no clue, that much you can be sure of. And, for the record, not once have you proven me wrong on anything and I am not the only one to tell you that. Major steps....LOL. You can't even get the basics right.

I will go one step further, and say this to everyone- THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH RELIGION. THIS VERY TYPE OF GARBAGE THAT THE WEAKMINDED FEED YOU. There are scriptures that deal with the fear of man- Gods reaction to this, Mathew 10:28 But rather fear him which is able to destroy body and soul in hell." Try Luke 12:5- Try Phillipians 2:12- Try Hebrews 10:31- Try Hebrews 11:7-Try Revelations 14:7. God deals in both fear and love, and you would rather ignore the fear part.Big mistake.

[Mattnxtc 0]

God deals in fear as much as anything else- why the threat of hell? Because he is playing nice? And, for the record, religion for the most part has no clue, that much you can be sure of. And, for the record, not once have you proven me wrong on anything and I am not the only one to tell you that. Major steps....LOL. You can't even get the basics right.

So you just completely ignore the fact that i just provided proof that your use of the words was wrong? Does God deal in fear of course...Hell is something to be feared...but in the context of the verse i was referring to, the word was revered not to be afraid of him...but i guess u decided that the greek word was wrong too and ur word fits better...I thought i was very clear that the greek shows a huge difference but you seem to think translations are good so who knowsand im still waiting for you to explain how the verse below even mention at all anything about baptism being a necessity for salvation since it seems to be missing from these verses and if it was a necessity you would think it would have been mentionedEphesians 2:8-9John 3:161 Corinthians 1:14-17 Titus 3:6-7I can list more if necessary..1 Corinthians actually has Paul saying "I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name"Those are Pauls words...He converted but didnt baptize...imagine that...Paul who was so instrumental doesnt seem to think that baptism was a necessity...amazingAlso again Ill make it easier for you:In 1 Peter 1:1 the word "strangers" is used...that same word is used in 1 Peter 2:11...which word means the same as "strangers" in 2:11

[disorderlyDj 0]

Really, all that scripture is saying is that he wasn't very good at it- see how I could skew the meaning if I wanted to give a reason why pastors need to make 6 figures and a cut of the gate? No, Matt, fear still means fear- he wouldn't be ending the world with fire if he wasn't going for fear. Have I mentioned that I can't stand religion? Your parents were very mean to you Turd, and there is no Boogeyman I promise.

I dont really understand your point in this thread.You replied to my post earlier.You stated that people have changed words in the bible when they interpreted the bible to keep people in check in the ways they(the person)saw fit.The one thing you need to understand is that when people believe in God they believe that His word cannot be changed by "people"but only by Him.There are others that have spun off and wrote other books of how they see religion .But it isnt the same as someone taking the one word that God(as people believe)has put into His own words for the masses to adhere to.these peole do not believe God would give them power to change it.Why do you need to worry about pasters anyway.If you dont give your money to them,then why do you worry others giving it to them.If it makes someone feel better and sleep better at night why should that keep you up.People cling to religion because they either fear dying or they need to feel they and their families are more than just mindless flesh walking without direction or purpose in life or beyond it.If one fears(like myself)that a horrendous end will come upon their families than so be it.I just dont see the point in cutting peoples posts up and treating them like mindless humans with no brains.You seem to tell people that their hopes and beliefs are futile.All the while not giving them any alternative to what they believe and how they will live better with out.Not every one needs to feel empty,alone and insignificant and that is exactly why they do believe in a higher power.

[Loismustdie 0]

this is wrong lois...I know you think our translations are perfect but that is the very wrong approach to take...the greek word used in 1 Peter 2:17 is fobeo or fobevw which means: (to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience)The word for fear as we understand it is actually found in 1 Peter 3:6 where Paul sayins "...if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear." or in the kjv it is "..are not afraid with any amazement"the word fear and amazement are actually translations of the same wordThat word in greek is ptoesiß which means: (to be afraid of with terror)A quick example of why it is necessary to look to the greek can easily be displayed from a simple little game1 Peter 1:1...Pauls uses the word "strangers" if you have the kjv or aliens in nasb1 Peter 2:11... Paul again uses the word "strangers" if you have kjv or aliens in nasbNow lois...are these the same 2 words or not? Both are the same in english so what do we assume that it meansYou cant stand religion only b/c u seem to wanna find out everything on ur own..thats fine except that you seem to avoid the major steps in order to understand and then complain when somebody with more knowledge corrects you (not referring to myself but in general)

And, why would I take words in english that have already been translated from greek and then do it again? When you read 1 Peter 2:17 he says fear God- just fear god, and , fear is a combination of things, really. Why do I fear a plane crash? Because of the potential harm, the same applies with God, as much as yu would like to think he is all powder puff he is not- he CREATED HELL!!!!!, and taht took a desire to punish somebody for a very, very, long time and taht does not come from a place of love.I am going to assume that when the scholar who translated said- ahhh, that word right there means fear, that HE DID HIS JOB RIGHT!! Why backtrack and try to do it again? No faith in the product as it stands, Matt?

[Mattnxtc 0]

Luke 12:5- "fobeo" means the greek word for reveredTry Phillipians 2:12- "foboß" - fear, dread, terror Try Hebrews 10:31- "foberoß" - inspiring fear, terrible, formidablTry Revelations 14:7 "fobeo" You see lois...3 different greek words..yet we all get the word fear...do u see yet

[Loismustdie 0]

I dont really understand your point in this thread.You replied to my post earlier.You stated that people have changed words in the bible when they interpreted the bible to keep people in check in the ways they(the person)saw fit.The one thing you need to understand is that when people believe in God they believe that His word cannot be changed by "people"but only by Him.There are others that have spun off and wrote other books of how they see religion .But it isnt the same as someone taking the one word that God(as people believe)has put into His own words for the masses to adhere to.these peole do not believe God would give them power to change it.Why do you need to worry about pasters anyway.If you dont give your money to them,then why do you worry others giving it to them.If it makes someone feel better and sleep better at night why should that keep you up.People cling to religion because they either fear dying or they need to feel they and their families are more than just mindless flesh walking without direction or purpose in life or beyond it.If one fears(like myself)that a horrendous end will come upon their families than so be it.I just dont see the point in cutting peoples posts up and treating them like mindless humans with no brains.You seem to tell people that their hopes and beliefs are futile.All the while not giving them any alternative to what they believe and how they will live better with out.Not every one needs to feel empty,alone and insignificant and that is exactly why they do believe in a higher power.

All you have done with this whole paragragh is prove every religous detractor right. Smash, Spademan, TimWakefield, all of them claim that religion is just something to make people feel better, and you know what? They are right. Why? Because it does not come from a place of truth. Do you really fear God? Then you should make it your one person in life to find out what he really wants, not just go along with the masses. Be different- Jesus was.

[Mattnxtc 0]

And, why would I take words in english that have already been translated from greek and then do it again? When you read 1 Peter 2:17 he says fear God- just fear god, and , fear is a combination of things, really. Why do I fear a plane crash? Because of the potential harm, the same applies with God, as much as yu would like to think he is all powder puff he is not- he CREATED HELL!!!!!, and taht took a desire to punish somebody for a very, very, long time and taht does not come from a place of love.I am going to assume that when the scholar who translated said- ahhh, that word right there means fear, that HE DID HIS JOB RIGHT!! Why backtrack and try to do it again? No faith in the product as it stands, Matt?

Lois u again are trying to avoid answering anything directly so lets try this again. I am not sure you understand the concept of translations. Yes they put what they felt was the best word for it but that doesnt always fit the definition and then people like you misuse it. If there is a word you question you go directly to the greek..The greek word will give u exactly how it was used during the time. do you understand that? Its not a difficult concept...When you understand the definition of the greek you can understand exactly what the verse was tryin to say..its not a different concept. Yes the scholar who wrote it tried to do his best. The NASB is the closest translation available but even still some english words to capture what the greek word meant..its simple a problem that happens with translating..dont cop out on ignorance lois...

[Loismustdie 0]

Luke 12:5- "fobeo" means the greek word for reveredTry Phillipians 2:12- "foboß" - fear, dread, terror Try Hebrews 10:31- "foberoß" - inspiring fear, terrible, formidablTry Revelations 14:7 "fobeo" You see lois...3 different greek words..yet we all get the word fear...do u see yet

Lol you are a riot- I don't need greek to know that fear has different meanings!!! You still haven't answered the question- Why did he create hell? What happens to you if you don't obey him? You go to hell. What should that instill in you if you believe? FEAR. I absolutely love it!!! You see? You see? Of course I see, but as usual you have nop real answer or explanation because you CANNOT answer- to do so would prove you wrong.

Lois u again are trying to avoid answering anything directly so lets try this again. I am not sure you understand the concept of translations. Yes they put what they felt was the best word for it but that doesnt always fit the definition and then people like you misuse it. If there is a word you question you go directly to the greek..The greek word will give u exactly how it was used during the time. do you understand that? Its not a difficult concept...When you understand the definition of the greek you can understand exactly what the verse was tryin to say..its not a different concept. Yes the scholar who wrote it tried to do his best. The NASB is the closest translation available but even still some english words to capture what the greek word meant..its simple a problem that happens with translating..dont cop out on ignorance lois...

When King James had it translated he had the scholars go over it and over it, a painstaking process whewre he had people killed who screwed up. God was watching over his book, and I have faith that he made sure it was done right. Where is yours? The scholar who wrote it tried to do his best.......LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Concept of translation? Hmmm..... well, I suppose I could doublecheck dudes work if I HAD THE ORIGINAL TEXT!! NOBODY DOES!!! Therefore, working backwards is a excercise in true futility, akin to talking to you.