The Christian Poker Player

[sholden 0]

The 'eye of the needle' is another term for the 'needle gate'. The walled city of Jerusalem closed it's doors at night. The needle gate was used for anyone coming in after dark. But it was a narrow and small passage. A person coming through would first have to take the entire load off the camel, walk it through the needle gate numerous times, and then put the camel on it's knees and push from behind to squeeze it through the opening. This practice ensured that the 'needle gate' could not be used for large scale military attacks at night. Thought I'd clarify this verse.*L*T*

Do you believe and repeat everything you hear? Or did you do some research to confirm this seemingly ridiculous claim - given the rest of the verse where the audience clearly believes it's impossible and not just difficult?Can you show one piece of evidence for the existance of this mysterious gate? A plan? Some archeological evidence? Anything?And what about all those babylonian Talmud references to "an elephant going through the eye of a needle" to signify impossible or very unlikely events. Doesn't that seem a more likely source - that Jesus, someone who was very knowledgable of such texts, would use those words thus drawing upon all those references for the people who knew them, and changing elephant to camel since elephants weren't common in Jerusalem but camels were the biggest regularly seen animal.Seems more likely than it referencing a gate which isn't mentioned in any other historic record - and there's no record of this story being about a gate uintil 1000 years after it was first told.

[*Lone*Trout* 0]

Do you believe and repeat everything you hear? Or did you do some research to confirm this seemingly ridiculous claim - given the rest of the verse where the audience clearly believes it's impossible and not just difficult?Can you show one piece of evidence for the existance of this mysterious gate? A plan? Some archeological evidence? Anything?And what about all those babylonian Talmud references to "an elephant going through the eye of a needle" to signify impossible or very unlikely events. Doesn't that seem a more likely source - that Jesus, someone who was very knowledgable of such texts, would use those words thus drawing upon all those references for the people who knew them, and changing elephant to camel since elephants weren't common in Jerusalem but camels were the biggest regularly seen animal.Seems more likely than it referencing a gate which isn't mentioned in any other historic record - and there's no record of this story being about a gate uintil 1000 years after it was first told.

Does the "literal" translation of this verse change any of the significance of the metaphor? Whether it be the "eye of a sewing needle" or the "needle gate", the lesson remains the same. I believe the "gate" metaphor to be more relevant as it would be "difficult" for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven but not impossible. As was the case with the camel in the needle gate. Oh and by the way............you're an ass.*L*T*

[arerad 0]

I read this entire post.Does this mean I can skip church the 2 weeks?

[turd ferguson 1]

I read this entire post.Does this mean I can skip church the 2 weeks?

If you got anything out of it it means that you can skip church for the rest of your life.

[ShakeZuma 585]

If you got anything out of it it means that you can skip church for the rest of your life.

have they figured out if God likes poker or not yet? cause I'm getting kinda tired of their arguing...

[turd ferguson 1]

have they figured out if God likes poker or not yet? cause I'm getting kinda tired of their arguing...

So far, from what I've read, God likes poker, but he's not so happy with Master Shake.

[ShakeZuma 585]

So far, from what I've read, God likes poker, but he's not so happy with Master Shake.

oh crap

[SunDrop 0]

This thread is why I'm looking into buddhism. The Christian religion is so direct, yet so ambiguous. I'm sick of people saying the bible is "the word", and yet interpreting it for their own lives, but when other people do the same, telling them they're going to hell. It's so hypocritical. Why not try buddhism? All that is is creating your own sense of being through meditation and figuring out whats best for you and the people around you. So much easier. Plus then you can be cool like Phil Helmuth.

[sholden 0]

Does the "literal" translation of this verse change any of the significance of the metaphor? Whether it be the "eye of a sewing needle" or the "needle gate", the lesson remains the same. I believe the "gate" metaphor to be more relevant as it would be "difficult" for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven but not impossible. As was the case with the camel in the needle gate. Oh and by the way............you're an ass.*L*T*

You stated as a fact what the story was refering to.When somehow in 1000 years no one realised that. And then suddenly they did even though there is no evidence that such a gate existed.You changed a parable into a literal description even though you claim there's no significant change to the meaning? So why bother? And more importantly isn't claiming something is true when in fact it isn't known as lieing?Making is a literal description of a camel and a gate does in fact change the meaning signficantly. It makes it appear to be saying that a rich man must get rid of his possessions in order to have the camel fit through the gate. Whereas the reference is actually just saying it is impossible for a rich man to go to heaven. And since the theology of the time said that being rich was due to the blessings of God for living a righteous life that means the righteous don't go to heaven. Which means the every day person certainly doesn't.Except for the saving grace of the cross (but of course that bit hadn't happened yet). So you turn the very fundemantal basis of the Good News into a story about a camel and a gate and having to remove physical possessions in order to get to heaven...But of course I'm the ass.

[Mattnxtc 0]

This thread is why I'm looking into buddhism. The Christian religion is so direct, yet so ambiguous. I'm sick of people saying the bible is "the word", and yet interpreting it for their own lives, but when other people do the same, telling them they're going to hell. It's so hypocritical. Why not try buddhism? All that is is creating your own sense of being through meditation and figuring out whats best for you and the people around you. So much easier. Plus then you can be cool like Phil Helmuth.

Eh its not real ambiguous...the problem lies in that so many people are willin to claim they "know" all about christianity when they in fact know very little...So they same something that doesnt have biblical knowledge behind it and treat it like its right...You will probably find the exact same thing with Buddism...though Buddism doesnt answer a lot of the religious questions that a religion should answer

[SunDrop 0]

Eh its not real ambiguous...the problem lies in that so many people are willin to claim they "know" all about christianity when they in fact know very little...So they same something that doesnt have biblical knowledge behind it and treat it like its right...You will probably find the exact same thing with Buddism...though Buddism doesnt answer a lot of the religious questions that a religion should answer

But I don't understand why there are "religious questions" that need answering. Any of those questions can be answered by logic or science.

[Mattnxtc 0]

But I don't understand why there are "religious questions" that need answering. Any of those questions can be answered by logic or science.

most people dont apply logic correctly (im not sure most realize there are even classes on logic) and science doesnt have an answer for a lot...and then theres the bible in general which people have misintrepreted for thier own gain for as long as its been around. Look at what Bin Laden did with Islam. He twisted it aroudn to fit his own goals...The core doctrine of the Bible has not changed though

[Loismustdie 0]

Faith In Christ Jesus is all that is necessary for salvation. We are commanded to get baptized to symolize our new life in Christ, but it is not necessary for salvation. Show me a scripture that says without being baptized you are not saved.

Read Acts 2, 8, 9,11,18,22-19 is especially good because it explains what Johns baptism was about. Read 1 Corinthians 1:- Really good chapter. 1 Corithians 12. Galatians 3. That is just a few. Romans 6 is good too. Read James 2- very good chapter on how faith by itself is not good enough, it goes farther and basically says that faith without the works to back it up is useless. If you don't have a KJV google KJV Bible and look it up- other translations chenge these scriptures to fit there own agendas and religous needs. Just to say this- I will not be addressing Matt any longer. I am done with him. For anybody that wonders why, read the past few pages- a true excercise in futility. Come on, this is a guy that said as a Christian you would have to agree that there may be no God- I will post that thread if you want me too. His faith is weak at best.

[turd ferguson 1]

You guys never get tired of this discussion do you?

[ajs510 122]

You guys never get tired of this discussion do you?

This discussion's been going on for a little over 2000 years, one would think eventually people would get tired, but I guess not.

[ShakeZuma 585]

Hey guys, Jesus called... and he wants his book back! Oh!oh, wait, even I don't get that one

[Mattnxtc 0]

Read Acts 2, 8, 9,11,18,22-19 is especially good because it explains what Johns baptism was about. Read 1 Corinthians 1:- Really good chapter. 1 Corithians 12. Galatians 3. That is just a few. Romans 6 is good too. Read James 2- very good chapter on how faith by itself is not good enough, it goes farther and basically says that faith without the works to back it up is useless. If you don't have a KJV google KJV Bible and look it up- other translations chenge these scriptures to fit there own agendas and religous needs. Just to say this- I will not be addressing Matt any longer. I am done with him. For anybody that wonders why, read the past few pages- a true excercise in futility. Come on, this is a guy that said as a Christian you would have to agree that there may be no God- I will post that thread if you want me too. His faith is weak at best.

apparently you didnt understand James either...James referred to the readers as brothers 14 times!!!! while callin on them to begin doing works. So is James contradicting himself? Can he call them believers if they are not doing works? Of course not...Just like baptism, the works are an outward expression of ur faith. B/c you believe you should be out showing the world that you are a believer...it also isnt a difficult conceptAS for ur last paragraph yes it is an exercise in futility...YOu make claims without biblical verses and when i correct you using greek u claim that the greek is wrong and the translation is right..imagine that...I have another quick thing for u to do..Go up to a philosophy major and ask him about absolute statements and if you can make them without absolute knowledge...He will laugh at you as everybody else has done so far. And again..Please tell me what word in 1 Peter 2:11 matches up with "strangers" in 1 Peter 1:1...its not hard quit avoiding things that you know ur wrong on...I alreayd answered ur verses in the past. In 1 Corinthians specifically Paul says that he is glad he didnt baptism them so that they couldnt say they were baptized in Pauls name...Hmmm So Paul doesnt feel its necessary to baptize them..imagine that...What you fail to realize is that by using ur messed up version of the bible the bible contradicts itself or Paul was wrong or ur wrong...Hmmm i wonder which one is wrong

[turd ferguson 1]

Hey guys, Jesus called... and he wants his book back! Oh!oh, wait, even I don't get that one

Replace "book" with "eternal salvation" and you've got yourself a winner.

This discussion's been going on for a little over 2000 years, one would think eventually people would get tired, but I guess not.

Seriously, the human race needs to get a hobby.

[ajs510 122]

I let this thread go unopened for 6 pages worth of posts...should have held out. As Carlin so wisely imparted to the world: "Please keep thy religion to thyself". This just ain't the place...

[Mattnxtc 0]

Lois has said that he wont talk to me anymore..has said this many times...well i wonder why..lets go over the facts1. His version of the bible contradicts itself:He claims we must have baptism and now hes claiming works also are a mustEphesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and hat not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast"Clearly if you think works get u to heaven then verse contradicts it Lois doesnt answer this 2. Lois doesnt seem to have a concept of the Philosophy of Knowledge so he cant seem to grasp the concept of absolute knowledge...does he admit this? of course not3. Lois seems to feel that a translation is more perfect than the original. That just b/c somebody did thier best to translate something that it is just as good as the original greek. Again...he doesnt grasp a concept but hey..he wont admit this eitherare yall seeing a pattern? 4. Lois doesnt answer anythign with biblical verses..he generalizes things to what he wants them to be5. The NASB is the best translation available of the bible. It is a word for word translation. Does Lois seem to know this? Of course not....Are yall still seeing the pattern? 6. If you say something that disagrees and have biblical backing for it what does he do? He says hes no longer talkin to you to avoid having to actually back up what he believes....He says baptism is necessary...tahts fine...explain Ephesians 2:8-9, Explain John 3:16...How does baptism fit into these verses? Its not a hard concept but instead of answering it he says he isnt talkin to me anymore...Do yall see the pattern?

[turd ferguson 1]

Either way, you both lose because God and Heaven don't exist. The Devil is real though, and he's going to get you if you're bad.

[ajs510 122]

Is the pattern "Overly religious people can't get enough of religious debate and/or argument"?If so, then I see the pattern. 7 pages worth of the pattern.

[ShakeZuma 585]

Hey guys... something amazing just happend! God ACTUALLY just spoke to me!He said stop arguing about religion in a Poker Forum.He actually sounded kinda pissed, too. I'd watch out.

[turd ferguson 1]

Hey guys... something amazing just happend! God ACTUALLY just spoke to me!He said stop arguing about religion in a Poker Forum.He actually sounded kinda pissed, too. I'd watch out.

It must be true because it's impossible to prove you wrong! Hooray for God!

[hermanjenks 0]

I am god...give me ten percent of your gross and fear me until the end. On a seperate note, who else thinks my son was kind of a puss? I mean, if he was soooo powerful why would he let himself die in such a humiliating way? Sack up JC.