this just in: pot odds are useless

[nell789 0]

I was listening to an episode of the Circuit from Cardplayer.com, and Steve Dannenman along with his "New Cut Crew" were on the show.During the interview, Dannenman states this:"Probably limit, obviously pot odds is important. But no-limit, I don't really think pot odds is important"I tend to think Dan Harrington would disagreeDiscuss.

[insano 0]

Well Steve Dannemon made a WSOP final table... How many WSOP final tables has Dan Harrington made?????Oh, nevermind.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Well Steve Dannemon made a WSOP final table... How many WSOP final tables has Dan Harrington made?????Oh, nevermind.

This made me laugh out loud. (I mean, not really out loud, but you know what I mean).

[Canuckickstan 2]

I was listening to an episode of the Circuit from Cardplayer.com, and Steve Dannenman along with his "New Cut Crew" were on the show.During the interview, Dannenman states this:"Probably limit, obviously pot odds is important. But no-limit, I don't really think pot odds is important"I tend to think Dan Harrington would disagreeDiscuss.

Dannenman has a crew? He should hook up with Dutch Boyd.

[leftygolfer 7]

I was listening to an episode of the Circuit from Cardplayer.com, and Steve Dannenman along with his "New Cut Crew" were on the show.During the interview, Dannenman states this:"Probably limit, obviously pot odds is important. But no-limit, I don't really think pot odds is important"I tend to think Dan Harrington would disagreeDiscuss.

Dannenman has a crew? He should hook up with Dutch Boyd.

Not enough Prozac for this group

[Longshanks 0]

dutch and steve would be a bipolar nightmare

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

[jjdylan 0]

pffffffffffft....pot odds are for donkeys

[DunkinDonuts 0]

Well Steve Dannemon made a WSOP final table... How many WSOP final tables has Dan Harrington made?????Oh, nevermind.

This made me laugh out loud. (I mean, not really out loud, but you know what I mean).

So, you're saying it made you laugh, but with the steady computerization of forms of communication over the last decade, you felt compelled to express your appreciation in literal terms, since the onslaught of Internet discussions has made direct observation of a joke's impact virtually impossible?Sad :cry: I can't even write my name in pencil anymore.

[KingAustin 0]

Steve vs rest of poker pros......who do I side with.....hmmmmmmm

[nell789 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

hey then blatantly disagreed with Gavin Smith when he said that if you're getting laid 3.5:1 by an all-in bet in a tournament, and you can be fairly certain that you're about a 2:1 dog that you should call. His reasoning was"Why would you call attempting to draw out on someone"He obviously doesn't understand the basic theory of wagering with +ev.

[greatwhite 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

hey then blatantly disagreed with Gavin Smith when he said that if you're getting laid 3.5:1 by an all-in bet in a tournament, and you can be fairly certain that you're about a 2:1 dog that you should call. His reasoning was"Why would you call attempting to draw out on someone"He obviously doesn't understand the basic theory of wagering with +ev.

I'm sure this obviously depends on the situation. Against a full pro table or in a cash game this wouldn't be wise. However, tournaments are about survival. You want to get your money in as big of a favorite as possible and if I was playing with my friends (who stink) I would lay it down as well.

[KingAustin 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

hey then blatantly disagreed with Gavin Smith when he said that if you're getting laid 3.5:1 by an all-in bet in a tournament, and you can be fairly certain that you're about a 2:1 dog that you should call. His reasoning was"Why would you call attempting to draw out on someone"He obviously doesn't understand the basic theory of wagering with +ev.

I'm sure this obviously depends on the situation. Against a full pro table or in a cash game this wouldn't be wise. However, tournaments are about survival. You want to get your money in as big of a favorite as possible and if I was playing with my friends (who stink) I would lay it down as well.

huh? Calling is +ev here, I dont understand your post...

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

hey then blatantly disagreed with Gavin Smith when he said that if you're getting laid 3.5:1 by an all-in bet in a tournament, and you can be fairly certain that you're about a 2:1 dog that you should call. His reasoning was"Why would you call attempting to draw out on someone"He obviously doesn't understand the basic theory of wagering with +ev.

I'm sure this obviously depends on the situation. Against a full pro table or in a cash game this wouldn't be wise. However, tournaments are about survival. You want to get your money in as big of a favorite as possible and if I was playing with my friends (who stink) I would lay it down as well.

You're getting 3.5-1.You're a 2:1 dog...why is this even to be discussed?If you lay down the hand at those odds for any reason, you're losing money.

[HoosierAlum 0]

That's the most ignorant thing I've heard today.

hey then blatantly disagreed with Gavin Smith when he said that if you're getting laid 3.5:1 by an all-in bet in a tournament, and you can be fairly certain that you're about a 2:1 dog that you should call. His reasoning was"Why would you call attempting to draw out on someone"He obviously doesn't understand the basic theory of wagering with +ev.

I'm sure this obviously depends on the situation. Against a full pro table or in a cash game this wouldn't be wise. However, tournaments are about survival. You want to get your money in as big of a favorite as possible and if I was playing with my friends (who stink) I would lay it down as well.

You're missing out on lots of chips then. Was Danennman jopking or was he actually serious?

[DeadlySkillz 0]

Don't mess. He killed hookers.

[greatwhite 0]

Ok, I can see why everyone doesn't agree with me, but I believe there are certain situations (only in tournaments) where it is more profitable to fold in this situation. For instance, if you will still be 2nd in chips and you feel like you are totally dominating a table full of inexperienced players, why risk all you're money there? If I was in a coinflip I'm calling this everytime, but not always as a 2-1 dog. I see Gavin's logic.

[nell789 0]

Ok, I can see why everyone doesn't agree with me, but I believe there are certain situations (only in tournaments) where it is more profitable to fold in this situation. For instance, if you will still be 2nd in chips and you feel like you are totally dominating a table full of inexperienced players, why risk all you're money there? If I was in a coinflip I'm calling this everytime, but not always as a 2-1 dog. I see every poker player who makes money playing poker's logic.

FYPand to the earlier poster, yes he was serious. Check it out on "The Circuit" at Cardplayers website. it's about 2/3 of the way into the interview.

[greatwhite 0]

I believe it is right to fold in tournaments sometimes when you are a 2-1 dog, getting 3.5-1 on your money. It's not very often, but when playing against people who can't play at all, I believe it's the correct play, depending on what your chip stack would be. After all, in theory, you will be getting 1.5-1 on your money.

[HoosierAlum 0]

I believe it is right to fold in tournaments sometimes when you are a 2-1 dog, getting 3.5-1 on your money. It's not very often, but when playing against people who can't play at all, I believe it's the correct play, depending on what your chip stack would be.

The ONLY time it would be correct is in a satellite type situation where there are one or only a few more people that need to bust and you are in comfortable position. Besides that, it is NEVER correct.

[Suited_Up 2]

In NL cash games, they matter.In tournaments, it all depends on the situation. I don't follow pot odds very closely when playing in tournaments, and it makes no difference. It all depends on your stack, and the risk it puts you at. There are so many more important factors that come before pot odds when playing a tournament. If ya don't like it, then oh well. Call me a rebel. Sometimes I will call someones push with QJ, sometimes I will fold AK getting 4-1. Because sometimes you just know your AK is gonna go down, and that your QJ is even money, or maybe a favorite. You can't say they are worthless, but they are definitely less important in tournaments than every other game.

[HoosierAlum 0]

sometimes I will fold AK getting 4-1.

O please god no.

[nell789 0]

I believe it is right to fold in tournaments sometimes when you are a 2-1 dog, getting 3.5-1 on your money. It's not very often, but when playing against people who can't play at all, I believe it's the correct play, depending on what your chip stack would be.

I understand what you are saying. This is a classic arguement where people say that pros should wait for bigger edges before they play because they are so much better than the rest of the competition.But if the pros were in fact so good that they could just out play the lesser players so badly that it was in fact a good move to fold when getting 3.5:1 and being a 2:1 dog, then I'm thinkin that the final table of the WSOP ME would have 9 top level pros at it, instead of 6 amateurs, 1 former pro, and 2 pros. Realistically, through the course of one tournament, luck has a huge factor in who wins. Good poker players must think of the long term as we all know. So calling that bet becomes far too +EV long-term to even think of folding. Even for a top pro, because there's just too much luck a single poker tournament to think that you can "outplay" everyone else and cruise to a victory.

[nell789 0]

In NL cash games, they matter.In tournaments, it all depends on the situation. I don't follow pot odds very closely when playing in tournaments, and it makes no difference. It all depends on your stack, and the risk it puts you at. There are so many more important factors that come before pot odds when playing a tournament. If ya don't like it, then oh well. Call me a rebel. Sometimes I will call someones push with QJ, sometimes I will fold AK getting 4-1. Because sometimes you just know your AK is gonna go down, and that your QJ is even money, or maybe a favorite. You can't say they are worthless, but they are definitely less important in tournaments than every other game.

Please be joking

[Suited_Up 2]

sometimes I will fold AK getting 4-1.

O please god no.

I've seen you do it too.UTG Raises 3x.... MP shorstack pushes for 8x, MP2 re-pushes for 15x... I'm folding AK.Actual odds are not exactly 4-1, point being, if UTG wants to call too, it's getting close to that, add another person in if you want... but there are plenty of times I can justify folding a hand getting massive odds.