how to know when someones slow playin trips

[thechad5 0]

An interesting hand came up while playin a $5 SNG today. Villain in BB, bodering on tilt and complaining about sloppy play at the table. Me slight chip lead early in tourney with A-4 off in late position. Everyone folds over to me and with 1600 and blinds at 40-80 I call with 2 behind and blinds. Button calls SB folds BB checks. Flop 10-10-4 BB Checked I bet out 120 hoping to steal Button folds and BB quickly calls. Turn A BB checks quickly and figuring that the only way I get a call is if he has a 10 I check hoping he hits on river. (Right before I checked I also thought that he could have had a 10 and was just slow playing)River K Now I like the K because I thought for sure hed bet around half the pot if he had a K. Which he did bet right out for 300. So with A-A-10-10-K I figure the only way he could have me is if he has a 10 and with the pot at 810 I can have a dominating nearly 2-1 chip lead on most of the table so I just call. Now I had put him on betting if he hit the K on the river not figuring me for an A, so a raise by me made sense but something didn't seem right. Thank god cause sure enough K-10 . I still have 700+ and with the blinds still low I can make it back into contention as the table has quite a few donks. My Question is: Did I miss something to give away that he had trips and would you have made the call? And dont flame me about never playing the hand in the first place I thought I was just going to steal some blinds being in late position if the cards warranted it. I was wanting to loosen up my table image.

[SpeedKills 0]

what else would he smooth call with on a flop of 10 10 4? Did you think he had a straight draw?

[crazyplaya6 0]

hmmm 5 bucks eh??

[speedz99 145]

And dont flame me about never playing the hand in the first place I thought I was just going to steal some blinds being in late position if the cards warranted it. I was wanting to loosen up my table image.

You can't steal blinds by limping. Horrible move...and yes, it set you up for losing a hand like that.Flop is fine.Turn you should have bet half the pot. Fold to a raise.If he calls turn check the river through or fold to a bet. Bad hand all around. I'm not flaming, just telling you my opinion.

[Bizzle 0]

An interesting hand came up while playin a $5 SNG today. Villain in BB, bodering on tilt and complaining about sloppy play at the table. Me slight chip lead early in tourney with A-4 off in late position. Everyone folds over to me and with 1600 and blinds at 40-80 I call with 2 behind and blinds. Button calls SB folds BB checks. Flop 10-10-4 BB Checked I bet out 120 hoping to steal Button folds and BB quickly calls. Turn A BB checks quickly and figuring that the only way I get a call is if he has a 10 I check hoping he hits on river. (Right before I checked I also thought that he could have had a 10 and was just slow playing)River K Now I like the K because I thought for sure hed bet around half the pot if he had a K. Which he did bet right out for 300. So with A-A-10-10-K I figure the only way he could have me is if he has a 10 and with the pot at 810 I can have a dominating nearly 2-1 chip lead on most of the table so I just call. Now I had put him on betting if he hit the K on the river not figuring me for an A, so a raise by me made sense but something didn't seem right. Thank god cause sure enough K-10 . I still have 700+ and with the blinds still low I can make it back into contention as the table has quite a few donks. My Question is: Did I miss something to give away that he had trips and would you have made the call? And dont flame me about never playing the hand in the first place I thought I was just going to steal some blinds being in late position if the cards warranted it. I was wanting to loosen up my table image.

Yes.

[Jdr999 0]

1. Post this is Tournament Play next time.2. I would raise this in LP and hope to take the pot down pre-flop.3. Bet when the ace hits. This way you will know if they have a 10 or not, or even a ace with a bigger kicker.4. Many players at low limits check/call or check/raise when they have very strong hands.

[speedz99 145]

Yes.

Not really. A quick call usually means a draw. But overall the check/call means you're screwed against a board like that. See my previous reply...

[TML28 0]

why steal a 100$ still too early to be stealing blinds.

[Jdr999 0]

why steal a 100$ still too early to be stealing blinds.

1. You are stealing 120 chips, not 100.2. You have position on everyone but the button, if they call.3. People might fold better hands, like A-5, A-6, small pairs, or hands like K-10.4. It's never to early to steal chips.

[Bizzle 0]

Yes.

Not really. A quick call usually means a draw. But overall the check/call means you're screwed against a board like that. See my previous reply...

What draw could he have on a 10-10-4 board?If there is a plausable draw out there, I usually expect them to have that, especially at this level. If no draw is available, and they check-quick call, they typically have a monster.

[MaStUrBaItOr 0]

who gives a flying shyt

[speedz99 145]

Yes.

Not really. A quick call usually means a draw. But overall the check/call means you're screwed against a board like that. See my previous reply...

What draw could he have on a 10-10-4 board?If there is a plausable draw out there, I usually expect them to have that, especially at this level. If no draw is available, and they check-quick call, they typically have a monster.

I know...I'm just saying in general a quick call doesn't mean a monster. Low limit players usually try to drag it out when slowplaying. Doesn't apply to this particular hand, but you know what I mean.

[commoncents 0]

its a $5 sng.........i put him on 72 off

[Dirtydutch 8]

Fold pre-flop.

[thechad5 0]

Yes.

Not really. A quick call usually means a draw. But overall the check/call means you're screwed against a board like that. See my previous reply...

What draw could he have on a 10-10-4 board?If there is a plausable draw out there, I usually expect them to have that, especially at this level. If no draw is available, and they check-quick call, they typically have a monster.

Ok let me clarify a little. BB in the previous hand got rivered by a flush. So he was steaming, thought he could be just defending his blind with two over cards to the 4. So thats what kinda draw I put him on. Secondly, who ever suggested raising pre-flop with an A-4 what are you doing giving me advice if your going around raising with an A-4 off? If you raise with an A-4 and someone re-raises what on earth could they have that would warrant a call, and even if an Ace hits the board are you gonna be able to call a check-raise or even bet out to someone who raised you? Finally I limped because everyone had folded around to me and felt like I could get off with playing the blinds for cheap figuring that I would have no qualms with folding my A-4 to a raise with only 80 invested. With that flop I figured any kind of bet would take the pot loosening my table image. Why bet the pot when I hit on the A? If he re-raises and I have to fold anyway without knowing he has a 10 what good does that do me?If I dont tell you he has a 10 and just leave it at would you call or not how many of you are folding when you are getting nearly 3-1 on your money and there is no way you can put him on K-K or A-A leaving only the 2 tens in the deck as possible winning hands. Not saying any of you are wrong just putting my thoughts in during the hand.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I like how people excuse their shitty limpswith even shittier hand analysis.You were "stealing" the blinds by limping from the cut off with trash?Or you were "loosening your table image" by limping in late position with trash, in a sit n' go at stakes so low that everyone already expects you to be loose (and/or isnt paying attention)?I mean, you can use the lingo of someone who knows what they're doing; but throwing out these terms like "table image" and "blind stealing" doesn't mean you actually are applying them properly.And for what it's worth, you arent "stealing" the pot on the flop when everyone checks to you on the flop and you figure to have the best hand, as it was in this hand.The flop, turn and river were all played fine though.

Secondly, who ever suggested raising pre-flop with an A-4 what are you doing giving me advice if your going around raising with an A-4 off? If you raise with an A-4 and someone re-raises what on earth could they have that would warrant a call, and even if an Ace hits the board are you gonna be able to call a check-raise or even bet out to someone who raised you?

The issue is that raising is usually better than calling.That doesnt mean that they're necessarily advocating raising here. Folding is better.

[silkyjonson 1]

A) don't post thisB) raise pre flopC) what the hell did you think he was calling you wit there?

[speedz99 145]

Ok let me clarify a little.  BB in the previous hand got rivered by a flush.  So he was steaming' date=' thought he could be just defending his blind with two over cards to the 4.  So thats what kinda draw I put him on. [/quote']Reasonable enough.

Secondly, who ever suggested raising pre-flop with an A-4 what are you doing giving me advice if your going around raising with an A-4 off?  If you raise with an A-4 and someone re-raises what on earth could they have that would warrant a call, and even if an Ace hits the board are you gonna be able to call a check-raise or even bet out to someone who raised you?  

Man...you need a ton of work. I only play limit cash games, and even I know that this is a load of crap. You DON'T LIMP with A4. You raise or fold. Period. End of story. If you don't know why, you need to read a few books on tournement poker.

Finally I limped because everyone had folded around to me and felt like I could get off with playing the blinds for cheap figuring that I would have no qualms with folding my A-4 to a raise with only 80 invested.  With that flop I figured any kind of bet would take the pot loosening my table image.  

No. You could not get away from it. You proved that in the hand. So don't limp with it.

Why bet the pot when I hit on the A?  If he re-raises and I have to fold anyway without knowing he has a 10 what good does that do me?

1. he might fold2. if he raises you get away with losing less than what you called on the river

If I dont tell you he has a 10 and just leave it at would you call or not how many of you are folding when you are getting nearly 3-1 on your money and there is no way you can put him  on K-K or A-A leaving only the 2 tens in the deck as possible winning hands.  Not saying any of you are wrong just putting my thoughts in during the hand.

I might have called the river. But the point is that you never should have let youself get in that position in the first place.

[thechad5 0]

I like how people excuse their censored limpswith even censored hand analysis.You were "stealing" the blinds by limping from the cut off with trash?Or you were "loosening your table image" by limping in late position with trash, in a sit n' go at stakes so low that everyone already expects you to be loose (and/or isnt paying attention)?I mean, you can use the lingo of someone who knows what they're doing; but throwing out these terms like "table image" and "blind stealing" doesn't mean you actually are applying them properly.And for what it's worth, you arent "stealing" the pot on the flop when everyone checks to you on the flop and you figure to have the best hand, as it was in this hand.The flop, turn and river were all played fine though.

Secondly, who ever suggested raising pre-flop with an A-4 what are you doing giving me advice if your going around raising with an A-4 off? If you raise with an A-4 and someone re-raises what on earth could they have that would warrant a call, and even if an Ace hits the board are you gonna be able to call a check-raise or even bet out to someone who raised you?  

The issue is that raising is usually better than calling.That doesnt mean that they're necessarily advocating raising here. Folding is better.

Not everyone who plays poker can afford to play at higher limits until they make the money. Ive never heard anyone in any poker circle ever talk of your superior poker abilities so I'm sure that you are about as full of it as myself. Sorry I offended you for not using proper jargon and missusing words, you don't have to read this thread. NO ONE CARES if you don't way in on it. Believe it or not I don't care who you are or what you think so if your not going to say anything productive why even bother. You are just perpetuating the opinion that you are an ass, and its not even funny.

[Abbaddabba 0]

1. he might fold  2. if he raises you get away with losing less than what you called on the river  

You dont mind giving him a free card if he has something that he's going to fold. He's going to be drawing to 2 cards or less if he is behind; and he will always at least call with something that has us beat.If we check, he may call a value bet on the river with less or bluff.With that in mind, if he has something htat he's willing to fold; we probably dont want him to.The king is the best card short of an ace in the deck for us. It's a pretty easy call at the river given that you checked the turn.

Not everyone who plays poker can afford to play at higher limits until they make the money. Ive never heard anyone in any poker circle ever talk of your superior poker abilities so I'm sure that you are about as full of it as myself.  Sorry I offended you for not using proper jargon and missusing words, you don't have to read this thread. NO ONE CARES if you don't way in on it. Believe it or not I don't care who you are or what you think so if your not going to say anything productive why even bother. You are just perpetuating the opinion that you are an ass, and its not even funny.

Yes, i probably do sound like an ass for explaining why you sound like you dont know what you're talking about.

[speedz99 145]

I like how people excuse their censored limpswith even censored hand analysis.You were "stealing" the blinds by limping from the cut off with trash?Or you were "loosening your table image" by limping in late position with trash, in a sit n' go at stakes so low that everyone already expects you to be loose (and/or isnt paying attention)?I mean, you can use the lingo of someone who knows what they're doing; but throwing out these terms like "table image" and "blind stealing" doesn't mean you actually are applying them properly.And for what it's worth, you arent "stealing" the pot on the flop when everyone checks to you on the flop and you figure to have the best hand, as it was in this hand.The flop, turn and river were all played fine though.The issue is that raising is usually better than calling.That doesnt mean that they're necessarily advocating raising here.  Folding is better.

Not everyone who plays poker can afford to play at higher limits until they make the money. Ive never heard anyone in any poker circle ever talk of your superior poker abilities so I'm sure that you are about as full of it as myself. Sorry I offended you for not using proper jargon and missusing words, you don't have to read this thread. NO ONE CARES if you don't way in on it. Believe it or not I don't care who you are or what you think so if your not going to say anything productive why even bother. You are just perpetuating the opinion that you are an ass, and its not even funny.

I bolded the parts of his post that you should pay attention to. He wasn't saying $5 S&Gs are a waste of time or beneath anyone...he was just pointing out that you won't see very good players there. Reads are important, so this hand plays differently on a $5 vs a $500 table.It IS important that you use the "jargon" correctly. If you are trying to explain yourself in a serious poker discussion you need to make sure that when you say you are stealing blinds, you raised to try to steal them...not limped to leave the blinds a chance to hit the flop, etc. Read his comments again, without getting offended. They are very useful. And, again, this is important...

I mean, you can use the lingo of someone who knows what they're doing; but throwing out these terms like "table image" and "blind stealing" doesn't mean you actually are applying them properly.

If you want to win, you need to properly apply these terms to your game. That's why we're trying to help you break down this hand. I hope this all makes sense.

[speedz99 145]

You dont mind giving him a free card if he has something that he's going to fold. He's going to be drawing to 2 cards or less if he is behind; and he will always at least call with something that has us beat.  If we check, he may call a value bet on the river with less or bluff.  With that in mind, if he has something htat he's willing to fold; we probably dont want him to.  The king is the best card short of an ace in the deck for us. It's a pretty easy call at the river given that you checked the turn.

I stand corrected. And that, my friend, is why I should stick to LHE only. It's sort of like a way ahead/way behind situation, I guess.

[thechad5 0]

Man...you need a ton of work. I only play limit cash games' date=' and even I know that this is a load of crap. You DON'T LIMP with A4. You raise or fold. Period. End of story. If you don't know why, you need to read a few books on tournement poker.

Finally I limped because everyone had folded around to me and felt like I could get off with playing the blinds for cheap figuring that I would have no qualms with folding my A-4 to a raise with only 80 invested. With that flop I figured any kind of bet would take the pot loosening my table image.

No. You could not get away from it. You proved that in the hand. So don't limp with it.

Why bet the pot when I hit on the A? If he re-raises and I have to fold anyway without knowing he has a 10 what good does that do me?

1. he might fold2. if he raises you get away with losing less than what you called on the river

If I dont tell you he has a 10 and just leave it at would you call or not how many of you are folding when you are getting nearly 3-1 on your money and there is no way you can put him on K-K or A-A leaving only the 2 tens in the deck as possible winning hands. Not saying any of you are wrong just putting my thoughts in during the hand.

I might have called the river. But the point is that you never should have let youself get in that position in the first place.

OK fair enough, but let me say this. I can get off an Ace hitting the board if the bet is there. I was just trying to grab some chips for cheap. Not necessarilly looking to hit anything just figured that the blinds would fold after the flop because I didn't feel I could raise enough pre-flop to steal and feel comfortable if I got called. I was just in the hand because it was cheap, I was in late position and there werent many people in the hand. The flop is the only reason I stuck around. I shouldn't have dressed it up as anything more sophisticated than that. My bad. I'll be more careful in the future.Truth is I should have seen the quick check call as a sign, but got my judgement clouded by thinking he was steaming. With the flop of 10-10-4 and a quick check I thought I could bet and take the pot with relative ease. After the quick call I feared he might be playing me for a fool and with the A on the turn the only call I can get is from a higher Ace or a 10 if I bet out implying that I have the Ace. So not wanting to give away my hand and realizing that I would probably only lose if he was holding a 10 I checked hoping that he made the call with two overcards to the board. Not unlikely at all if he is infact steaming. When the K on the river hit and he bet about 1/2 the pot its plausable that he had a K with my first read. I made the mistake of underestimating my opponent and that is what ultimately crushed me. I should have seen the signs and just folded, but I couldn't because the only way he beats me in my mind is if he holds a 10, but I had him on two overcards. I made a mistake and will now learn from it. Thanks for the help.Chad

[speedz99 145]

Good thread.And after reading all this again I think the river call was definately correct.

[jakoye 0]

OK fair enough, but let me say this. I can get off an Ace hitting the board if the bet is there. I was just trying to grab some chips for cheap. Not necessarilly looking to hit anything just figured that the blinds would fold after the flop because I didn't feel I could raise enough pre-flop to steal and feel comfortable if I got called. I was just in the hand because it was cheap, I was in late position and there werent many people in the hand. The flop is the only reason I stuck around.

Then it's an easy fold.