Quiz Question #2

[JL 0]

It appears the vast majority are in favor of folding, so instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call.Why would the SB go all in if he indeed have a monster hand? Wouldn't he flat call and hope the BB came along for the ride? I know it can be a bad move slow playing a huge hand, but when you're low on chips, sometimes it's worth the risk to try and triple up rather than double up. That really would be the deciding factor for me. Just the fact that he pushed the big blind out of the pot would lead me to believe his hand is not as good as he wants us to believe. It's a clear defense of his blind thinking you were on a steal.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think that you can make that call ... many reasons. If you feel he has a decent hand and wants to risk that much he most likely has a pocket pair. If that pocket pair is A-K-Q-J-10 then you're drawing for a A. With offsuit there's very little chance of catching a flush with the A since a flush with a 9 may not be good enough. And you have very little chance of catching four cards for a straight.Anyone agree with me?

[offmandh 0]

call it

[JFarrell20 1]

Well I believe you have to call 4000 for an 8500+/- pot. So the pot odds are about 47%. This means that if your hand is a 47% favorite to win, then it is technically an even-money call heads up. So would you rather fold 1200 for nothing? Or call an even-money bet?If your opponent has 8-8 or lower, then you are 47% or better to win. And if he has Ace-8 or lower, then you are in a dominating position. The hands you need to be worried about are AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, A10. This is 10 hands out of a possible 169 hands. This means that you are ahead of 158 hands, and behind 10 hands. Good odds for you, especially since the pot odds are 47% or so. (Daniel didn't mention it, but I'm assuming the BB folded and you are heads up) Also, this is all assuming an average player w/ average chipstack and all that...The answer is easy, Call. You do have to let the cards fight for you once in a while!

[jogsxyz 0]

I voted with the minority and called. 5825 in the pot. Getting a little more than 2 to 1 for the money. This is only a super bad call against AA. It's a marginally incorrect call against A with a better kicker and pairs KK thru 99. If I get lucky I can knock a player out of the tourney. Short stacks often get desperate and can easily be playing a small pair or even two randoms. I would be the money favorite or even the actual favorite on this hand.

[CodyHartman 0]

I think that folding here should be easy. It is way to early to try and get involved with a marginal hand like A 9o. The pot odds are close to your favor but at best you are drawing to 3 aces. It is too much of your stack to call off so early. Given the $$ in the pot and how much more it would be to call I think the blind would know you would almost be inclined to call and therefore WANT call. I dont think too many people would want to race with A9 so early.Plus who wants to risk another 1/4 of their stack at this point.

[cgrohman 0]

Abs0lutely not with the stack size you have. With 5825 in the pot, you are getting roughly 2 to 1 on your money. There are 3 reaosnable hands you could be up against, assuming the player is not putting you on a steal. 1) A Bigger Ace 2) A pair above 9s 3) a Small pair. With options 1) and 2) you are are down 2.5 to 1. Its early in the torunament and the extra 2800 could be used to build your stack later. Let it go.

[Munky 0]

Well I believe you have to call 4000 for an 8500+/- pot.   So the pot odds are about 47%.  This means that if your hand is a 47% favorite to win, then it is technically an even-money call heads up.   So would you rather fold 1200 for nothing? Or call an even-money bet?

When there's 8500 in the pot and it's 4000 to call, his pot odds are about 2:1 That means he's going to have to win the very next time something like this happens. Hand odds are different than pot odds, If he has AK, you only have of about %25 to win. If he's got a pair higher than 9, you still have less than %30 to win.

[HoosierGrady 0]

I understand why everyone says they would fold, but my decision would be based on where I was in the tournament. If it was closer to the end, and I had a chance to knock someone out and I'm holding A9, then I'm in. I understand pot odds and the small blind re-raising appears scary, but towards the end of a tournament, I'd gamble and make the call, hoping he/she thought I was raising because of my position, not my cards.

[JoRaff 0]

Well I believe you have to call 4000 for an 8500+/- pot.   So the pot odds are about 47%.  This means that if your hand is a 47% favorite to win, then it is technically an even-money call heads up.   So would you rather fold 1200 for nothing? Or call an even-money bet?

I think you're wrong here, Farrell.It would only be an even money call if your 4000 was already in the pot. Save your 2800, don't draw with A9o with the chance of bringing your opponent to around 8225 and yourself down to 10 000. You have a nice stack, let's keep it that way.

[IGOTBULLETS 0]

A,9 suited or unsuited is a hand i feel comfortable with. I've had it quite a few times in my games and have had pretty good luck. So i would say i would call him. If i win i would be chip leader and then take a deep breath and continue playing.

[JoRaff 0]

I understand why everyone says they would fold, but my decision would be based on where I was in the tournament.  If it was closer to the end, and I had a chance to knock someone out and I'm holding A9, then I'm in.  I understand pot odds and the small blind re-raising appears scary, but  towards the end of a tournament, I'd gamble and make the call, hoping he/she thought I was raising because of my position, not my cards.

I don't know if I agree with your late-tourny move here, Hoosier.In tournament play, it's not your objective to knock out players. What you want to do is gain as many units as you can. Keep your opponents in the game so they can keep feeding you units, keep some lower stacked players in to give the higher-stacked players more competition. And if you find this utterly opposite to your strategy, you have to agree that if you're in the late stages of a tourny with a decent stack, why risk a nice lead with A9o?

[KingAustin 0]

I dont know if I agree with your tourney play at all. Why would you want to keep a low stack in? They arent dead money, all you need is a chip and a chair. Keeping a low stack in when you can take them out is a cocky play.I would call him, same reasons that other people have said.

[Wilderness 0]

I dont know if I agree with your tourney play at all.  Why would you want to keep a low stack in?  They arent dead money, all you need is a chip and a chair.  Keeping a low stack in when you can take them out is a **** play.I would call him, same reasons that other people have said.

Doubling up a short stack when you have bad odds to win and aren't getting pot odds isn't a good play at all. Of course you want to take the short stack out, but in this hand where you extremely likely to be behind isn't the the time to do it.And for the person who said they'd call because they've had good luck with A-9 before? Come on, you can't play superstisiously (probably spelled that wrong) because it only hurts you in the end. You need to base your decision on this hand and this oppoenent and I think its a pretty obvious fold.

[jogsxyz 0]

In tournament play, it's not your objective to knock out players.  

This statement flies against what was shown on ESPN. In the 2003 WSOP Moneymaker was knocking out players left and right. In the 2004 WSOP everytime the short stack said all-in, Raymer said, "I call."To the poster who thought calling and losing would double up the small blind.If you fold the chips are 12800 to 5825.Call and lose: 10000 to 8625Call and win: 18625 to ZERO.It just seems unlikely the sb would only play AA-99 pairs and only AT or better kicker. If the sb plays lower pairs or lower kickers, the pot odds swing quickly in favor of calling.Even if the sb only played the premium hands the tourney odds may favor calling. Winning this pot will put you in good position to win the tournament.

[naugie 0]

Why is it tempting? 1. Because of the image. If the other people at the table understand what the call means, they will understand that you are not afraid to gamble with them. If they think that, they won't fight back so much, and your implied odds are not as bad. 2. He is in the small blind. You have position. His call here is not a good one if he has anything under AK, in my book. He would have to flop a set if he holds a small pair to be really confident, unless he has a really good read on you. A weak ace obviously worries about missing the ace, and even if he hits it, you have position, and raised first. If he wants to play, he has to raise to win. You have an Ace, so he probably doesn't have AA, and if he has KK, he might want to see how the flop turns out. Then he could come out betting, and either get a call, or still win. Same for QQ. I would say his high pair chances have dropped. If he wants to raise, he has to make it difficult for you to call. Based on chips, A5 would seem like a holding that this all in bet would make sense for (bad english).3. You are in the cutoff. Every one behind you is the blinds and the button, and everyone in front of you is... the blinds. If I was Negreanu, I would raise with 65 sooted in ep. This is the cutoff and the first one in, so I (Negreanu) could raise with hmmmm, 93. Being as I'm not Negreanu, I might still be capable of such a steal, since I might expect to win uncontested.4. You don't know much about the sb. Therefore he doesn't (probably) know much about you. While this might imply he will play more conservatively against you, sometimes the best way to learn about someone is to make plays and see how they respond, and he might think that you would play much more conservatively against his reraise for the same reason (not knowing him). This goes to three or more levels of thinking, you get the idea. This one call can generate plenty of action in the future, and you are definitely not out of the race, should you lose. 5. Obviously, to learn a little about him. Of course, this only helps if he is definitely going to be playing at the same table as you for a while, and that goes for reason 1 as well. If most of these are working in my favor, I would probably think that the call is warranted. The math alone screams fold, this reasoning (I think) screams call. Personally, I think call, but it is quite borderline.

[JoRaff 0]

This statement flies against what was shown on ESPN. In the 2003 WSOP Moneymaker was knocking out players left and right. In the 2004 WSOP everytime the short stack said all-in, Raymer said, "I call."

well that's a strategy that's specific to whoever uses it...I think it's highly debatable and remains 'besides the point".

To the poster who thought calling and losing would double up the small blind.  If you fold the chips are 12800 to 5825.  Call and lose: 10000 to 8625  Call and win: 18625 to ZERO.  It just seems unlikely the sb would only play AA-99 pairs and only AT or better kicker. If the sb plays lower pairs or lower kickers, the pot odds swing quickly in favor of calling.  Even if the sb only played the premium hands the tourney odds may favor calling. Winning this pot will put you in good position to win the tournament

This is not the time or the place to race with A9o.The only argument I hear for calling are incorrect pot odds, and that it'd put you in a good position if you knock the dude out...well obviously.My move is fold.(I also really liked that long, initial explanation made by whoever...well put)

[naugie 0]

By the way. Raymer's call's were based on what the other people would play that way based on his read of their play, then his probability that he would win based on what he put them on. Profitability, plain and simple. I didn't see Moneymaker's series, but figure it to be similar. Proof of Raymer's is that when Anderson shows AK, Raymer comments that he was surprised Anderson was so strong, because he figured Anderson would do that with any Ace. I heard that Moneymaker made some kind of similar claim as to what Dutch Boyd had when Moneymaker held a pair of 3s to knock him out, but the story I heard might have been skewed. Also, ESPN shows all in hands. That's what they do. Do not make a decision in poker based on TV. We don't know the facts, just the actions.

[Stoli4meplease 0]

I'm too tempted to think that he is just makng a move. All though I am usually not that stubborn, in this situation, I would make the call and see how the hand plays out. You're taking a chance at knocking another player out, and ultimately, it's a hand that you can easily rebound from if you don't get the best of it. You have to take chances in tournaments, and I would take a chance here. You're hande may easily be ahead anyway.

[Tafka 0]

I look at it as the kind of hand/situation where most of the time, I fold, but there will be times I call, all things being equal. Sometimes you are in positions where you have to allow luck to happen when you're life isn't at stake. If I have no read to tell me what hand he has or how he plays, he's just as likely to be the ballys guy pushing back at me with 47os as he is to be in there with AK. It's just as likely his stack got short with bad play than it is bad luck. I think the fact that so many people are pointing out all the reasons you should be folding in this situation says to me that he could know it and could be using it against me. I'd want to try to figure out what he thinks I have/how I'm playing. I think it feels like a weak play from a weak player because, as the first quiz played upon, he's giving up the ability to force me out of the pot after the flop.In the end, I think it comes down to if I think it's a time and a place to gamble and what I could set up later with this move, win or lose or what I might risk later on if there's a player or two I feel might use similar tactics againt my raises.

[srblan 0]

By the way.  Raymer's call's were based on  what the other people would play that way based on his read of their play, then his probability that he would win based on what he put them on.  Profitability, plain and simple.   I didn't see Moneymaker's series, but figure it to be similar.  Proof of Raymer's is that when Anderson shows AK, Raymer comments that he was surprised Anderson was so strong, because he figured Anderson would do that with any Ace.  I heard that Moneymaker made some kind of similar claim as to what Dutch Boyd had when  Moneymaker held a pair of 3s to knock him out, but the story I heard might have been skewed.  Also, ESPN shows all in hands.  That's what they do.  Do not make a decision in poker based on TV.  We don't know the facts, just the actions.

Moneymaker was calling for low cards when he called Boyd's all in, indicating that he believed (correctly) that Boyd had unpaired high cards.

[TylerBeal 0]

You have to call this raise. Theres a few reasons why you MUST.1) Assuming the BB Folds its a heads up coin flip2) Small Blind is the most common place to raise to steal blinds and ante's3) SB is short stacked and feels he can steal the blinds and ante's 4) Your getting almost 2:1 on your money and a chance to bust another playerWell its 5:20am here in Ajax so if that doesnt make sense PM me for clarification! I think it should be ok!Make that call! SB probably has K,6 off or worse I am sure! Take Care,Tyler

[Adam 0]

Doubling up a short stack when you have bad odds to win and aren't getting pot odds isn't a good play at all.  Of course you want to take the short stack out, but in this hand where you extremely likely to be behind isn't the the time to do it.And for the person who said they'd call because they've had good luck with A-9 before?  Come on, you can't play superstisiously (probably spelled that wrong) because it only hurts you in the end.  You need to base your decision on this hand and this oppoenent and I think its a pretty obvious fold.

When I read the two posts he/she responded to, I was gonna respond to them exactly like Wilderness said. To KingAustin: Of course you don't want low stacks in, but you also don't want them to double up and be within two thousand of you. If they do double up, then calling would be a "****" play. (I don't know what the swear word is, so I just put the asteriks there myself. ) Folding is the optimal play here, and I stick to what I originally said all of the way back to post #3.

[Munky 0]

It appears the vast majority are in favor of folding, so instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call.Why would the SB go all in if he indeed have a monster hand?  Wouldn't he flat call and hope the BB came along for the ride?  I know it can be a bad move slow playing a huge hand, but when you're low on chips, sometimes it's worth the risk to try and triple up rather than double up.  That really would be the deciding factor for me.  Just the fact that he pushed the big blind out of the pot would lead me to believe his hand is not as good as he wants us to believe.  It's a clear defense of his blind thinking you were on a steal.

I see your point here, but say he has a hand like AK. It's not good letting 2 people draw at you rather than one. If the BB has a hand that's decent to call a stanard sized raise with, like QJ suited or other suited connecters, you're letting him draw at you by just calling. Where as if he suspects you have an ace he might have one that out kicks you leaving you with only 3 outs by pushing in and not letting someone else (the BB) draw at a better hand.

[kjfranc 0]

LIG.... Let it go. Is this really the hand that you want to lose 1/3 you chip stack on. Not me.hasta luego