i get donked into on every street.

[screech 0]

FCP 2/4 (10-handed)No specific reads. I haven't really been paying attention. The table has a tightish feel.I'm in MP1 with K 9 Preflop:3 folds, I raise, SB calls, BB folds.Flop:(3 players) 6 4 9 (7sb)SB bets, SB calls.Turn: 6 4 9 7 (5.5bb)SB bets, SB calls. River: 6 4 9 7 Q (9.5bb)SB bets, I call.I raised the turn for a free SD, planning to fold to a 3-bet, and betting the river improved. Ok? Who takes the free showdown on the river? What if the river was a 2 ?

[DrZebra 0]

guessing villain's hand...Q 8

[screech 0]

guessing villain's hand...Q 8

Reasonable guess, but no.

[TheIceman05 0]

guessing villain's hand...Q 8

Interesting flop lead from the SB...On this stupid-ass board, I take the free showdown UI. The only real "blanks" are red deuces.Red Queens are probably the third-safest non-hand-improving cards.He's on a draw a lot, here. He could be trying to take your free-card play away with a hand like A6/9T, blah, on the turn, but that doesn't jive with the river lead very well. So I think I check behind almost every river. I can bet a red 2, and a card that improves my hand if I'm raising this turn.Ice

[Egarim 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid. Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

[TheIceman05 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid. Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

Haha, wow. You're a dick. That's awesome.

[Egarim 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid.  Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

Haha, wow. You're a dick. That's awesome.

I wasn't calling him stupid. I'm simply stating that this play is stupid. I've done it before in the past. There's nothing to be ashamed about. We all make mistakes and we get better by learning from them. Anyways, I think That's awesome that you think I'm a d1ck because the word stupid showed up in a sentence I wrote. Maybe, I'll substitute it with the word dumb next time.

[TheIceman05 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid.  Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

Haha, wow. You're a dick. That's awesome.

I wasn't calling him stupid. I'm simply stating that this play is stupid. I've done it before in the past. There's nothing to be ashamed about. We all make mistakes and we get better by learning from them. Anyways, I think That's awesome that you think I'm a d1ck because the word stupid showed up in a sentence I wrote. Maybe, I'll substitute it with the word dumb next time.

First off, I really DO think controlled doses of dickitude are awesome. No lie there.Secondly, I just think it was a pretty big dick thing to do to tell him hisplay was stupid, then condescend him with something like "Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do."Face it. You're a dick, and I'm cool with that.Ice

[Egarim 0]

First off, I really DO think controlled doses of dickitude are awesome.  No lie there.Secondly, I just think it was a pretty big dick thing to do to tell him hisplay was stupid, then condescend him with something like "Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do."Face it.  You're a dick, and I'm cool with that.Ice

First off, I REALLY do think That's awesome that you think I'm a d1ck and you're cool with that. Secondly, I wasn't being condescending to him by saying that. I honestly meant it. I found I improved my game far more by simply thinking situations through by myself than having someone tell me what the right play is. First, by thinking it through yourself, you understand where it comes from and why it's the wrong play. Second, it develops a good habit of thinking over a certain play you made after it happened and figuring out why it was right or wrong. I know that the point of posting here is to get feedback from others... but sometimes people do it without thinking it through themselves and I believe this is one of those situations. Because logically, if you think it through, there's only one conclusion.

[TheIceman05 0]

Well, I'll vouch for screech. He's a strong thinking player, and he won't just take your advice and apply it blindly; he'll think about it, chew on it, and adjust his decision-making matrix accordingly if he finds your reasoning sound. Ice

[pokerplayer24 0]

Raise / folding this turn is a far far better play then just calling. Its not even close. We want to make the drawing hands pay and if we get 3 bet here their is a good chance that we are drawing dead.

[Actuary 3]

yeah, Screech, you should be more thoughtful in your poker game. I never see any analysis from you or thought behind your plays. :roll:

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid.  Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

I acutally think its the perfect line. If he improved to 2 pair he is probably never 3-betting (unless he is actually a good player, but Ill assume otherwise.) If he has a draw and it gets there he will probably try and checkraise river, but he will never get more than one bet on river, and he will properly be charged 2 on the turn, So in essence he it is like he is paying off the river when his draw misses and never getting an xtra bb when he hits. I think we are probably beat here since he donked river, but I still think there is the chance that this is a desperation donk. I honestly cant think of a better line.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid.  Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

I acutally think its the perfect line. If he improved to 2 pair he is probably never 3-betting (unless he is actually good but Ill assume otherwise.) If he has a draw and it gets there he will probably try and checkraise river, but he will never get more than one bet on river, and he will properly be charged 2 on the turn, So in essence he it is like he is paying off the river when his draw misses and never getting an xtra bb when he hits. I think we are probably beat here since he donked river, but I still think there is the chance that this is a desperation donk. I honestly cant think of a better line.

[screech 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid. Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

yeah, I was mainly concerned with my turn play because it's a situation where I used to call down indiscrimently.Now I think I should be raising in these types of situations a lot more. On a less draw heavy board, I'd probably call down against decent players who bluff too much. In this situation, I can't think of a single reason as to why I shouldn't pot the turn. Against passive players, I almost always get a free SD unimproved no matter what their hand is. And they won't always bet the river with a weaker TP hand.Against aggressive players, they could easily be semi-bluffing the turn in this spot. They could have a pair + a draw. I understand you're reasoning for wanting to call down because I used to think the same way. We risk the same when we're ahead, and lose less when we're behind. But I think in semi-bluffing situations it's better to raise the turn. He could have a weaker made hand; he could have a hand with a lot of outs; he could have us beat.If he has a weaker made hand, raising is obviously better. I win 3 bets when a blank hits the turn.If he has a semi-bluffing hand, raising is better. I get more money in on the turn as a favorite.If he has me beat, I probably lose an extra bet.I think it's close between a raise and a call down, but in the long run, I think raising makes more money. Raising is even better against good opponents. They won't be able to peg your turn raises as a 'strong hand', and will be less inclined to semi-bluff you in the future.

[Canada 0]

If you reason it out... just think about your turn play... you'll conclude that raising with the intention of showing down really gives you no value and is rather stupid. Do the math on the possible situations when you raise on the turn for a SD or just call down. Thinking things through is more important than having someone tell you what to do, so i hope you go through it yourself.

Easiest turn raise in history, not too sure what you are missing.River call is a lot harder to make; after the way the hand played he has to give you at least an overpair to the board @ the turn and assume you are calling.I would've felt he has at least a queen way too often here or is a complete donk.I would be tempted to call to find out the latter, but with a read suggesting otherwise the river is a fold

[mrdannyg 274]

am i missing something?what's with the preflop raise?

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

am i missing something?what's with the preflop raise?

Not really bad but I wouldnt make it standardP.S. Said table was tight so perhaps to pick up blinds

[justblaze 0]

am i missing something?what's with the preflop raise?

agreed. also, Egarim, please post your reasoning instead of trying to sound smart, because at this point i think you are quite wrong.

[checkymcfold 0]

am i missing something?what's with the preflop raise?

agreed. also, Egarim, please post your reasoning instead of trying to sound smart, because at this point i think you are quite wrong.

re: pfr-if a table is "tight-ish" and a lot of heads up pots can be won on continuation bets, i really, really like open raising hands like k9s. like, a lot, at least until the table figures this out and starts 3betting you to isolate. but before then, raise and raise away.

[Sysvr4 0]

Haven't read replies.PF - Kinda loose, but I think it's great on the tight FCP tables. Over 50% of the time when I raise PF at 2/4 (from any position) I win the blinds.Flop - StandardTurn - He thinks you were raising the flop with spades so he donks a non-spade. Raise is standard.River - Good

I raised the turn for a free SD, planning to fold to a 3-bet, and betting the river improved. Ok?

Yes.

Who takes the free showdown on the river? What if the river was a 2 ?

If it's a blank lower than my top pair and not putting up a 4-straight I bet it. Otherwise I check behind.Nh.Jeff