playing .50/1.00 is not poker

[tentenoffsuit 0]

Point 3: Daniel and several posters here think limit poker takes more skill. Mike Caro and several posters here think no limit takes more skill. I think they take a different set of skills and arguing about it is like arguing if apple pie or chocolate cake tastes better.Point 5: If you want to make good money playing low limit NL hold em, I strongly advise you to play at a site that has a "bet pot" button. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

I loved those two points. Made my morning so far.

[Smasharoo 0]

if u can beat 100 NL then why do u play .50/$1?? this stupid statement is laughable. i was wondering if u could sit in a 100 NL table and show us how easy it is to beat it.Did it hurt when they first put the helmet on you to protect the other kids on the little yellow bus?

[koreanmeanin 0]

what a ridiculous notion.i have twice turned 75.00 on party into 800+ starting at .50/1 limit. the game is so easy to crush. it's 1/2 hold'em that i had trouble with - but after making 300 in a couple days at .50/1 a jump to 2/4 isnt too bad. and thats not the juicy part..2/4 is by far easier than .5/1 and a solid limit player should clean up in these games. i've put in 15k hands in the last month and a half and after that.. you sort of develop a feel for where someone is at in a hand - even four tables at once. after that, it's easy. point and click, shoot the fish. buy the pot with rags when their obvious flush draw doesnt hit. i make a lot of money by just applying pressure, preflop and postflop, when i know a guy is on a draw. know thy enemy3/6 was even easier than 2/4. the only differences being the stakes and the money you make - they go up.5/10 is wild and crazy - played about 300 hands there and came up a couple hundred. and i have to admit, i went out of my bankroll and played some 10/20, after climbing up 800, i ended up giving it all back. definitely more poker to be played and it's a lot tougher of a game, with many pots being capped preflopped. seems like my local 4/8 kill game really.. but i'm back to building, once i hit 6k that 10/20 game is mine .. so if you have any semblance of talent or skill at limit hold'em and you arent making good money off of party poker, you should rethink what you do with your spare time :Poops. putting my stats in and I realized i am an overall loser at .5/1 now. this can be attributed to my first foray onto party in january, which saw me drop about 100 there. also, i like to go back for bonuses and try to clear them as fast as possible multi tabling .5/1 .. and i almost break even that way.. playing fast loose poker still, the smallest game is where i made my springboard into more money.POKERTRACKER STATS:$10/$20 - 246 hands - 20.33 vpip - $469.50 LOST - -9.54 bb/100$5/$10 - 309 hands - 17.68 vpip - $173.50 won - 3.41 bb/100$3/$6 - 820 hands - 24.27 vpip - $522.75 won - 10.63 bb/100$2/$4 - 1321 hands - 25.66 vpip - $348.17 won - 6.59 bb/100$1/$2 - 963 hands - 24.30 vpip - $136.00 won - 7.06 bb/100$.5/$1 - 3835 hands - 24.59 vpip - $19.20 LOST - -.5 bb/100and incidentally:NL(.50) (6 max) - 27.70 vpip - $148.61 won - 18.88 bb/100NL (.50) - 4045 hands - 20.91 vpip - $873.16 won - 21.59 bb/100overall, over 14 levels:15655 hands - 23.03 vpip - $2,426.95 won - 11.46 bb/100all on party. up a grand on full tilt as well :Dsmash is correct about the low buyin NL games on party - farming. you always seem the same group of guys sitting at 25 buyin table .. with 150 bucks, grinding away. good luck with limit and if you havent already, try some sklansky dont tap on the aquarium.. -dok this is a huge post now, sorry. but i need to throw this out there.. is there any established online player who would willing to sort of take me under his wing and advise me, as far as bankroll management goes? i'm horrible with keeping my winnings safe, and i often play above my limit. i played 5/10 NL on full tilt yesterday and ended up 2k, but gave 1k back the next day. i can play with those guys.if someone who is online playing alot would hook up with me on msn or so and help me through some of these ups (mostly) and downs i'd appreciate it. i'm doing this for a living now (at 23) and I know from firsthand experience I can compete in the $5/$10 $8/$16 $10/$20 games and even the high buyin NL games. i just cant keep tabs on my bankroll to make any sort of legitimate jump up. my first run on party i went up 800 and lost it all. help me out, i'm looking for a mentor of sorts thanks-dan (feeling his oats)

[liveactiononly 0]

smash why dont you ****ing answer peoples question or just dont post. Dont post stupid sh*t trying to insult people. Seriously, you attempt to be of a higher knowledge than anyone but in the end you are just this 32 year old guy with nothing better to do than insult peoples intelligence to make himself feel better. I have followed alot of your posts and the fact is that you only get all high and mighty against people you no will not accept your challenges. Well i, as i have said before would be happy to meet up with you and play 15-30 in a real casino for however long you want to let you show some of that skill you so pride yourself on. I am tired of you constantly calling people idiots because they dont udnerstand something you have a difference of oppinion on. Put up or shut up.....i am in vegas and will be there until you are. I am sure i am going to hammered by wrto and others of smash's minions for challenging him like a little kid but i am tired of the BS>

[liveactiononly 0]

if u can beat 100 NL then why do u play .50/$1?? this stupid statement is laughable. i was wondering if u could sit in a 100 NL table and show us how easy it is to beat it.Did it hurt when they first put the helmet on you to protect the other kids on the little yellow bus?

this was the quote i was referencing in my last post. why can you just answer his question....but you just avoid it and make a sorry attempt to call him and idiot.

[Suited_Up 2]

smash why dont you censored answer peoples question or just dont post. Dont post stupid sh*t trying to insult people. Seriously, you attempt to be of a higher knowledge than anyone but in the end you are just this 32 year old guy with nothing better to do than insult peoples intelligence to make himself feel better. I have followed alot of your posts and the fact is that you only get all high and mighty against people you no will not accept your challenges. Well i, as i have said before would be happy to meet up with you and play 15-30 in a real casino for however long you want to let you show some of that skill you so pride yourself on. I am tired of you constantly calling people idiots because they dont udnerstand something you have a difference of oppinion on. Put up or shut up.....i am in vegas and will be there until you are. I am sure i am going to hammered by wrto and others of smash's minions for challenging him like a little kid but i am tired of the BS>

It's fine that you want to say whatever about smash, feel free.... But do you realize the dumbass that you are defending... there is a problem there. Did you even read what he said? And what's with all these challenges, man, you guys are just silly. The original poster is a crackhead who doesn't know poker from his @sshole.... yet you care whether or not smash says something to him? It seems as though you are taking a cheap shot for no reason also, and getting another chance to act like a big man cause you can play smash in a real casino. I guess online is too scary and might be rigged. If you can play live, you should be able to play online. Either way, it's kind of annoying hearing all these, lets go play right now, blah blah blah... I'm a big man and I can beat you heads up... just shutup.

[Suited_Up 2]

if u can beat 100 NL then why do u play .50/$1?? this stupid statement is laughable. i was wondering if u could sit in a 100 NL table and show us how easy it is to beat it.Did it hurt when they first put the helmet on you to protect the other kids on the little yellow bus?

this was the quote i was referencing in my last post. why can you just answer his question....but you just avoid it and make a sorry attempt to call him and idiot.

HE IS AN IDIOT!!!

[UglyJimStudly 0]

Point 2: He still raises some interesting points for discussion. Is a game based primarily on big draws and maximizing small edges truly poker?

Well, taking that point of view one could easily make the claim that "Texas Holdem is not poker". Holdem is the most popular casino game today precisely because it leads to a lot of action and big pots, where a novice can firmly believe any two will do and occasionally win playing that way. Casinos like that because it draws in the tourists, and because it leads to fast games and lots of rakes. New players like it because most of the cards are up and visible, and there aren't that many cards to remember. Good players like it because there are lots of bad players, and by playing big draws and maximizing small edges they can beat the bad players often enough to make money.I guess I just don't see the point of being elitist about the way bad players with big bankrolls (in comparison to the limits) play. Holdem attracts those players precisely because it offers the lure of big draws for the novice. For anybody who'd prefer a game where big hands tend to hold up, and reads/bluffs/slow-play etc. are all absolutely critical rather than just part of the toolkit, I recommend draw poker. It's just short of dead as a casino game because fish tend to walk away from the table dazed and confused with no idea precisely how they lost all that money, but it's still a viable home game.

[faketree 0]

I, for one, don't think the value of the chips has anything to do with whether games are 'real poker' or not. I've seen 10/20 games just as loose and bad as the .50/1.00 games online. I just depends on who is sitting in the game. Granted, in general, the .50/1.00 games will be looser in general. But, if you don't know how to beat the loose .50/1.00 games, what do you do when the 10/20 or 3/6 games starts to resemble that game? It is still big bet poker but incredibly loose. I'd be willing to bet you would lose money in this game. When your AK gets cracked twice in a row by 36h, you wouldn't be complaining that 10/20 isn't real poker would you?Up until recently, I have been strictly a NL player in mostly online SnGs and Multi tables and have had incredible success with that. But whenever I go to the cardroom to play some live limit (4/8 or 6/12), I lose. How could this be? I mean, I know I am a good player from my results over the last couple of years. But why can't I beat a low limit hold'em game? Namely, because of exactly what Smash said. In NL you can make someone pay dearly for one mistake on one hand. But in limit you have to consistently make someone pay relatively smaller amounts ALL THE TIME. This is much easier said then done and can be exploited in any limit regardless of the stake. This is just a fundamental axiom of poker. And assuming there are much more mistakes at ths level then at the higher levels, there is some great potential +EV as smash and wro have suggested. While spending a month turning $250 into $570 playing low limit seems like a waste of time to most people, I guarantee this work that smash is putting in now will really pay off in the future. He has inspired me to work more on my limit game so I can start playing live more often.Keep it up Smash and wro. These posts are obviously from people that cannot appreciate anything else about poker than winning huge pots.

[liveactiononly 0]

alright the guy be challenged when it comes to poker philosophy or even human interaction but seriously, why cant we just let him think what he wants to think without calling him an idiot. He is a human being and can have opinions too. I remember when i was like him and thought that no limit was real poker and then you become educated about the game and learn that you were being an idiot when you said those things. Look, maybe i was just looking for a shot at smash because i just see it so much, he argues rudely and with no respect for other people. Then, he makes these same sort of challenges but not so directly like saying "where do you play so i can play" and things along those lines. I just think that people are quick to jump on others to make themselves feel educated. I know you may say "well, you are getting on smash" but i am not jumping on him without reason, he has repeatedly done this sort of thing and it is just plain rude. The reason i reference the challenge is because the last time me and smash got into an argument (in which i was wrong might i add) we supposedly were to meet up so that he could show me how much of an idiot i was. I then accepted the challenge and he never contacted me so that we could meet up.i think there are quite a few posters on here that answer questions respectfully and really do provide insight in a proper manner, but smash, much to my dismay, is not one of them.Please....dont start with this bs about how i cant play online, i choose not to play online because i simply dont like it. I like the atomosphere of a casino as well as being able to see and read the oppenents emotions. I do not discredit your play because you play online so dont discredit mine because i play in a casino. The reason i said that i would play with smash in a real casino is because he would obviously have an advantage online because i am not seasoned in the nuances of online play as he may very well be. I said real casino not to discredit online poker but to make the ponit that i wanted to play in a b and m casino.

[jakoye 0]

While spending a month turning $250 into $570 playing low limit seems like a waste of time to most people,

It's only a waste of time for those to whom $320 doesn't seem like much. I think it's a lot to wrto and it's a lot to me too. I make a comfortable living, but I grew up poor, so I know the value of money. Those who don't are welcome to their opinion, but making fun of someone because he's not as well off as you (at the age of 20 no less!) is beyond childish. We're talking toddler level here.disclaimer: Not aimed at you, faketree. Just using your quote to bludgeon others!

[Suited_Up 2]

You said until you got edjucated. I think plenty of people tried to edjucate him, and he just stuck to his ignorance... So I have no pity for him. He honestly sounds like a 16 yr old who just watched Rounders, and heard that it's the Caddilac of poker. Or someone once told him that poker has to have bluffing, or something, I don't know.. but he's just dumb.As for the casino thing... since you live in vegas, maybe there's no point to play online, but if you do want to play lower limits, or just sit around and not get dressed to play, then it's a good alternative.Umm... and If everyone got to say what they want without being called an idiot, nobody would ever learn. And we would never have any fun. At least when smash makes fun of people it's funny. Some people are just jerks flat out, no redeeming qualities whatsoever.And honestly... who makes a thread, just to say that low limits aren't poker... he was looking for a fight, and he got what he wanted.

[liveactiononly 0]

very true about this guys post suited up. I just dont think that we have to call someone an idiot to get a point across. I know that if someone called me an idiot i would say "hey, you know what, they must be right and i am probably an idiot and dont know what i am doing so i am just going to listen to what they have to say" lol, or maybe they do, but i sure dont. again, i feel that higher limit games are much easier for me to make a consistent living on because i have less varience in the bb/hr.

[Suited_Up 2]

very true about this guys post suited up. I just dont think that we have to call someone an idiot to get a point across. I know that if someone called me an idiot i would say "hey, you know what, they must be right and i am probably an idiot and dont know what i am doing so i am just going to listen to what they have to say" lol, or maybe they do, but i sure dont. again, i feel that higher limit games are much easier for me to make a consistent living on because i have less varience in the bb/hr.

I hate the variance too. I'm also getting impatient with these dumb people... but I don't have the BR to move up, so I have to play there right now.

[JFarrell20 1]

HAHAHAHHAHA fool here si an example for all you people5 man handplayer 1 AsKdPlayer 2 4s5splayer 3 Ad9cplayer4 3h7hplayer5 6s10sFLOP Ah 6H 3CWho is the favorite in this hand? Morons!!The paired flush draw, obviously.My turn. What are the odds of flopping a paired flush draw when playing any two suited cards?

and who is second choicer to win the pot guess what not AK

Noooo! Really? News to me. When I picture Toogood, I picture the "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer" turning over a rock and finding sustenance. Minus the comedic wit and the whole Lawyer thing..

[faketree 0]

While spending a month turning $250 into $570 playing low limit seems like a waste of time to most people,

It's only a waste of time for those to whom $320 doesn't seem like much. I think it's a lot to wrto and it's a lot to me too. I make a comfortable living, but I grew up poor, so I know the value of money. Those who don't are welcome to their opinion, but making fun of someone because he's not as well off as you (at the age of 20 no less!) is beyond childish. We're talking toddler level here.disclaimer: Not aimed at you, faketree. Just using your quote to bludgeon others!

No, I see you didn't aim that at me. You just spelled out what I meant by that sentence. It was meant in two ways:1. I think a lot of people play poker with a gambling attitude even though they may be thinking that they are not gambling. And winning $2 pots just seems like a huge waste of time to these people.2. The whole BB/hour deal. Wrto didn't mention how many table hours it took to turn the $250 into $570. I think a lot of people would wrongly shoot this down and say, 'dude, you can work in a minimum wage job and make more money /hr than you did playing poker'. But they obviously would be missing the whole point of what Smash and Wrto are doing.Its just reminiscent of CharlieBrody coming on here claiming he will post his hand histories from his 25/50NL games because who in the world wants to hear about .50/1.00 limit games? Only about half the people on here Brody! Its just very amusing how people who have enough capital to sit down at a bigger buy in table are automatically better than .50/1.00 players when Smash is obviously going about his poker education in a well-planned, well-designed curriculum.

[auspex 0]

Listen man i don't believe you. That's my truth! I mean i have never played .50/1.00 but you are eithe r a liar or get very lucky. There is very little skill involved. VERY LITTLE!! YOu need to draw and that's a factThere's WAY less skill in beating 100 NL.Want a lesson in beating 100 NL?Play only pocket pairs and suited aces. When you flop a set, go all in. When you make a nut flush go all in.There you go.

Reallly how about drwaing htem in with a set and slow playign and check raising give me a break man that is poker .50/1,00 ahahahhahaha funny to listen to though

SLOW PLAYING A SET IS EXACTLY T"HE REASON YOU LOSE AT .50/1and if you won there you wouldn't be bashing it.. you are just upset because you can't beat it... its not hard to beat the low limit tables. Stay aggressive and charge the fools... swings big ... pay off big.... no brainer

[JFarrell20 1]

I'd like to see this Toogood cat tell Daniel that 3/6 is "real poker". LOL.I don't quite remember, but it seems like there are a lot of stages between 3/6 and 4k/8k. Hmm, I forget where I heard that. No wait... it does just go from 3/6 to 4k/8k. Yeah..Too bad, Toogood.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Its just reminiscent of CharlieBrody coming on here claiming he will post his hand histories from his 25/50NL games because who in the world wants to hear about .50/1.00 limit games

the funny thing is, is that all these people who claim to be these high limit online players don't post hand histories to prove it. I play much lower online because I don't have as much in my bank account and I want to earn my way up instead of just using money that I got from my parents and money from my school, that I used on poker instead of rent. I want the self satisfaction of taking my online bankroll from the microlimit up to the middle limits, that is a good feat and it shows that you are pretty good by doing that. It takes a lot of skill to march up the limits like that over thousands of hands

[JistTheFist 0]

No no no, you see the only problem with this toogood guy.... is that he heard about poker on TV... and NL hold 'em is the only one that gets major media coverage.... a few of my friends were the same way... I've been playing poker for quite some tiem now but they got really involved along with the poker boom in 2003.... every time I'd ever say "can we play something other than hold 'em? it's getting a little boring"... they'd be like "WHAT??? NO WAY... Hold 'em is the 'Cadillac of poker' (they learned it from rounders)... hold 'em is the only poker worth playing!".... basically that's the position that toogood is in,.... he knows nothing about poker other than what he sees on rounders,tilt,shade,WSOP coverage..... just don't pay any more attention to him.... he's obviously an idiot.

[dpianomn 0]

limit IS real poker. period. to say that it takes no skill is idiotic and naive. if you can't beat low limit hold 'em, you're not a winning player. and all the posts stating that small buy-in NL is easy are absolutely right. $25 and $50 NL on party has to be the easiest game on the planet.on a side note, i think it's hilarious when i sit down to play a limit SnG and some idiot says "crap, i thought this was NL. this game sucks, all about luck." haha roflmao.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I find limit holdem tournies to be quite hard actually. You can't rely on the goodold all in to save you. I respect good limit tourny players a lot

[Kendren 1]

I turned $250 into $570 in less than a month at the $.50/$1 tables at partypoker. If you can't beat bad players, you can't beat anyone.

Listen man i don't believe you. That's my truth! I mean i have never played .50/1.00 but you are eithe r a liar or get very lucky. There is very little skill involved. VERY LITTLE!! YOu need to draw and that's a fact

Did this get past everybody, or have I not read deep enough? Who are you to comment on something you've never done? You might as well talk about sex, you have just about as much experience at that (with a girl) as you do .50/$1 poker.This guy is just about the most verbose maniac I've ever run across.

[faketree 0]

I turned $250 into $570 in less than a month at the $.50/$1 tables at partypoker. If you can't beat bad players, you can't beat anyone.

Listen man i don't believe you. That's my truth! I mean i have never played .50/1.00 but you are eithe r a liar or get very lucky. There is very little skill involved. VERY LITTLE!! YOu need to draw and that's a fact

Did this get past everybody, or have I not read deep enough? Who are you to comment on something you've never done? You might as well talk about sex, you have just about as much experience at that (with a girl) as you do .50/$1 poker.This guy is just about the most verbose maniac I've ever run across.

It got past you. A couple posters pointed this out.

[Kendren 1]

I turned $250 into $570 in less than a month at the $.50/$1 tables at partypoker. If you can't beat bad players, you can't beat anyone.

Listen man i don't believe you. That's my truth! I mean i have never played .50/1.00 but you are eithe r a liar or get very lucky. There is very little skill involved. VERY LITTLE!! YOu need to draw and that's a fact

Did this get past everybody, or have I not read deep enough? Who are you to comment on something you've never done? You might as well talk about sex, you have just about as much experience at that (with a girl) as you do .50/$1 poker.This guy is just about the most verbose maniac I've ever run across.

It got past you. A couple posters pointed this out.

'Preciate that. Obviously this guy must play.04/.08 and be jealous of the high rollers.