playing .50/1.00 is not poker

[sprfcta 0]

Our friend Daniel has written that limit requires more skill than limit.Sure you don't want to reconsider your position?

[allinbluff35 0]

Our friend Daniel has written that limit requires more skill than limit.Sure you don't want to reconsider your position?

well conisdering that both of those are the same thing it is hard to choose.

[ahosang 0]

lol...a lot of low-limit players on this forum. Personally I find both limit and NL hold'em nauseating...lol.toogood, I see what you're saying about drawing play at low-limit, but surely people who are systematically winning there have adjusted their play to deal with the circumstances. That's a testament to their abilities, no?Out of interest, what is your BigBlind/100 at the moment in NL$100?

[akishore 0]

smash, wrto, allinbluff, and others:just ignore him. maybe he'll go away.aseem

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'm pretty sure that most of us would play higher limits if we had the roll. But really is it not about playing winning poker. Iknow that for me that I'mnot gonna move up until I have a satisfactory win rate after 30k hands

[Smasharoo 0]

party poker --really get crushed come joinHaha.You play $3/$6 at party?What's your screename. I'll post some of your hands and you can explaion the thinking behind them.

[DiverDown4 0]

Its funny that he mentioned bluffing as a big part of the game in every post. Bluffing works in only certain situations, stop watching the WPT and learn how to play the game.

[wrto4556 0]

party poker --really get crushed come joinHaha.You play $3/$6 at party?What's your screename.  I'll post some of your hands and you can explaion the thinking behind them.

He's not gonna tell you! After the whole forum chiming in on his massive stupidity, i'de be suprised if he ever makes another post. It's a shame. He obviously has alot to learn.

[MilesZS 0]

I think my favorite part about this whole thread is the run-on sentences with grammar nearly indistinguishable from that of A+ 1st grade papers. That and the fact that the reason I don't play limit games is because I KNOW it is REAL poker, in that I do not know enough yet to beat it consistently. I KNOW I can beat NL, because those games are soooo soft.

[sprfcta 0]

Our friend Daniel has written that limit requires more skill than limit.Sure you don't want to reconsider your position?

well conisdering that both of those are the same thing it is hard to choose.

Guess I left out a "no" there somwhere. s/b limit requires more skill that no limit.

[MrConceit 0]

R u serious this is supposed to be a good forum----NL is the only real poker.  Or high limit poker .50 -1.00 is a bnout hitting your draws.  Agreed a lot of bad players on NL that will call big money to hith their draws .  Make them pay to seee it not .50.   The only point i agree with is the real life point.  IN the real world it's alot different then computer.  But even top pros will tell you the .50-1.00 holdem is not poker.  It's for giggles.

This is too ridiculous and funny. R u f0r r3al man? Saying any one type of poker is the only real poker is only about the stupidest thing ever. And that isn't even addressing your other foolish contentions. Oh laugh, why am I even bothering, others have addressed this for the most part, but I guess I'll finish.The amount you're playing for (as long as it's real money) makes no difference. If everybody calls with poor pot odds or improbable draws not getting correct odds -- you make money. Regardless of whether they suck out that single time or not. If they don't take it seriously because it's small money to them, GREAT! Then you'll take their money even easier. NL is the easiest thing in the world to beat if you're playing vs bad opponents. Until the TV explosion NL cash games had just about died out because the fish so rarely won. You need the fish to be able to have lucky days (unless you have some explosion of new people because of external reasons) or the games will dry up. And paying .50 cents into a 2.50 dollar pot on a gutshot that hits 1 out of 10.75 times is a losing proposition, the same as paying 100 dollars into a 500 dollar pot. I understand you can't raise people out on legit draws and/or semi-bluff as well in low limit. That does not make it fake-poker. Also, in games like this you play your draws AGGRESSIVELY, draws are king, not made hands of 1 pair (if you're on a table of 7 seeing the flop and playing too far). Oh well enough.Get a clue.

[Don Giovanni 0]

uh ok toogood says that low limit holdem is not poker. smasharoo says that low limit NL holdem is not poker. that pretty much makes both of you idiots. NL players always say that NL takes more skill and limit players always say that limit takes more skill.

[Awful 0]

Alright, here it is, the actual answer on limit vs. NLAt low levels NL is more beatable. More fish due to WPT. At Party in particular stacks are not deep, so the most advanced and riskiest parts of play are cut down. Micro NL is a double-up game. You can be the tighest rock in the world, hit a set, push in and some 'tard will call you in the Party NLs because you are so obviously bluffing.At low levels, Limit actually does requires greater consistency and heart to win. You can't crush the game without value betting decent but beatable holdings, you can't win without playing the pot odds right constantly, you can't crush the game by being weak tight, by giving up small but risky edges. You need to accumulate every edge you can because you can only win so much on each hand anyways. For the same reason you can't have a bad preflop game and succeed. You can't hit one big hand, play it OK, and still manage to book a winning night of appreciable length. Strictly as a game, NL is by definition harder. You have variable bet amounts that are a source of information and an additional variable to manage along with all the other factors. By rule, it is more complex when played well. It's played so much worse at micro-limits that that is a moot point. The difficulty of any poker game is a function of those other guys at your particular table. Micro NL players are simply easier to get all the money from more safely. You don't have to bother with small edges because they'll offer you HUGE edges later for very large amounts of chipsSo to recap: the easiest game is the one where the opposition sucks the most. Wow, shocking revelation there. As a result, the "real poker" among limit and NL varies depending on the level on which you are playing.

[akishore 0]

Alright, here it is, the actual answer on limit vs. NLAt low levels NL is more beatable. More fish due to WPT. At Party in particular stacks are not deep, so the most advanced and riskiest parts of play are cut down. Micro NL is a double-up game. You can be the tighest rock in the world, hit a set, push in and some 'tard will call you in the Party NLs because you are so obviously bluffing.At low levels, Limit actually does requires greater consistency and heart to win. You can't crush the game without value betting decent but beatable holdings, you can't win without playing the pot odds right constantly, you can't crush the game by being weak tight, by giving up small but risky edges. You need to accumulate every edge you can because you can only win so much on each hand anyways. For the same reason you can't have a bad preflop game and succeed. You can't hit one big hand, play it OK, and still manage to book a winning night of appreciable length. Strictly as a game, NL is by definition harder. You have variable bet amounts that are a source of information and an additional variable to manage along with all the other factors. By rule, it is more complex when played well. It's played so much worse at micro-limits that that is a moot point. The difficulty of any poker game is a function of those other guys at your particular table. Micro NL players are simply easier to get all the money from more safely. You don't have to bother with small edges because they'll offer you HUGE edges later for very large amounts of chipsSo to recap: the easiest game is the one where the opposition sucks the most. Wow, shocking revelation there. As a result, the "real poker" among limit and NL varies depending on the level on which you are playing.

extremely well said. i was thinking of posting something like this but couldn't think of the right words. it's good that i didn't, because my post wouldn't have been nearly as thorough and eloquent as this. :-) aseem

[KDawgCometh 2]

actually the only "real poker" is five card draw with dueces and jacks wild, only way to play people you need tons of skill to win at that

[bourbenz 0]

I think most of you guys missed thed point of this thread! what hes saying is that in micro limit poker you have little if any positive ev, because even a hand as good as ace ace is pretty weak in a 6 handed game, if you are crushing the 50 cent game its not by playing tight solid poker because a tight player gets killed in that as well. As far as the rebuttal is concerned, the low limit nl is a weak game as well, i play 2-4 and 3-6 limit holdem as well as stud 8ob, and ocassionally nl and can say without a doubt, the skill required to beat the micro limit is far outweighed by the luck required.

[wrto4556 0]

What we are saying, is that there is huge +EV!! People make so many mistakes...this really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

[bourbenz 0]

What we are saying, is that there is huge +EV!! People make so many mistakes...this really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

no its easy to understand I beat the .50 game consistently when I was starting but its really a joke you cant outpay anyone, you have to outdraw them. and with 5 or 6 post flop callers you had better be drawing to the nuts, not just over pairs, it creates to much variance to be a solid proposition and luck is more of a factor than other limits where you can usually thin a field down to 2 or 3. TYhis is of course assuming a full ten table. the obvious best way to kill a micro game is play short handed and then kill them with superoir play but it really isnt worth the time or effort for a 5 dollar pot.

[hotdog da 2rd 0]

I play 100 NL on PP and do very well.100 NL is not poker.100 NL is a joke and so much easier to beat than .50/$1 it's laughable.

if u can beat 100 NL then why do u play .50/$1?? this stupid statement is laughable. i was wondering if u could sit in a 100 NL table and show us how easy it is to beat it.

[jperry 0]

IN MY EXPERIENCE, AND MOST I KNOW, AT THE LOWER LIMIT GAMES 1-2 FOR EXAMPLE YOU ARE GOING TO GET SO MANY MORE "BAD BEATS" THAN SAY A 3-6 OR 6-12 FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT IF I RAISE ON THE BUTTON WITH SAY AK IN A 1-2 ,MOST WILL CALL AND FLOP COMES AK3 ALMOST EVERY ONE STILL CALLS IT DOWN AND THE TURN COMES A 9 I STILL BET AND STILL WILL GET CALLERS NOW THE RIVER IS A 5 GUESS WHAT I RUN A RISK OF SHOWING DOWN WITH SOME ONE THAT HAS A 42 AND LOSE, SO BAD PLAY ON MY PART OR LUCKY HIT " WELL IT ONLY COST 2 MORE TO SEE" VERSUS A 3-6 GAME IN THAT PROBLEY THE ONLY CALLES I GET ARE AN ACE'S OR KING'S OR HIGH STRAIT DRAW AND THE STRAIT DRAW WOULDV'E FOLD ON THE TURN. NOW I AM NOT KNOCKING THE LOWER LIMIT GAMES, IF YOUR PATIENT AND HAVE SKILL YA YOU CAN WIN LETS SAY A 50-75 $IN A LOW LIMIT PER HR WHICH CAN BE ONE POT IN A 3-6 GAME, AFTER ALL ITS ABOUT WINNING MONEY RIGHT. IF wrto4556 FROM HOUSTON DOUBLE HIS 250 OR SO IN AN .50 / 1.00 IN A MONTH THAT TAKES SOME SKILL, TAKE THAT SAME SKILL AND HIS 250 IN SAY A 3-6 AND HE PROBLEY HAVE OVER A GRAND, AND YES NO-LIMIT IS THE BIG DOG BUT HOW MANY CITIES HAVE NO-LIMIT CARD ROOMS ( NO BIG CASINO'S CLOSE TO ME). POKER IS POKER I DONT CARE HOW MUCH YOU PLAY FOR, BUT JUST LIKE THE ODDS OF WINNING WITH POCKET PAIRS OR HIGH SUITED CONNECTORS GOES DOWN WITH MORE PEOPLE AT THE TABLE SAY FULL TABLE VERSUS 4 PLAYERS , IT ALSO GOES DOWN THE LOWER THE LIMIT OF THE GAME, IT IS A FACT, YOU JUST HAVE TO CHANGE GEARS, 1-2$ GAME MY POCKET AA REALLY DONT HAVE THE SAME ODDS VERSUS AA IN A 3-6 OR HIGHER, WHICH IS BETTER TAKING DOWN 20 POTS @ 10$ A POT IN SAY AN .50/1.00 OR 1.00/2.00 OR 5 POTS @40+$ A POT IN A HIGHER LIMIT GAME, EITHER WAY IS GOOD, BUT HOW MUCH TIME DO YA GOT?IF YOU PLAY VERY LOW LIMIT GAMES YOU WILL LOSE MORE HANDS THAN IF YOU TAKE YOU SAME SKILL LEVEL AND GO UP TO A HIGHER LEVEL, ITS ALL ABOUT MATH/ODDS, JUST MY 2 CENTS

[Suited_Up 2]

Ok, hold on.... I can't believe what I'm reading. Is this guy for real?First of all... stop watching WPT and WSOP reruns, and maybe take some time to learn how to actually play poker. NL is the only real poker? LMAO... That is so funny I don't even know what to say.The funniest part was when you told wrto that you just flat out didn't believe him. Sounds like a loser at the .50/1.00 tables to me, who just wanted to come post about this because he's bitter that he can't beat bad players. What a dumbass.But somehow you think the skill level goes way up at 3/6.... and that's real poker I guess. You must be half retarded or something. The players at that level are exactly like the lower ones, except they have more money to blow. Judging by your reaction to the limit game, you are one of them.Oh wait... I almost forgot.... NL is the real poker because you can bluff. And we all know that bluffing is what it's all about.... Again, no more rounders and wpt tivo for you. Oh man smash, I really hope you find out this guys s/n on there. I would love to see this.It's sad to know that all this time I haven't actually been playing poker.... Now I have to go figure out where I've made all this money. Dang.

[Awful 0]

If it's all about math/odds, how do you not see that 6 players beating you 4 out of 6 times is great for the wallet? The jacked up pot sizes due to these idiots more than compensates for the extra losses and beats. By FAR. It does NOT make up for what you lose steaming or on tilt, but that's a different matter. The fact that .5/1 limit idiots cannot lay down a hand is not a BAD thing. To believe that it is, well, that's artifice and selection bias. You make money from the mistakes of others and the more mistakes made against you, the more profitable it is. Limits control the size of the mistakes, however, that is correct. If someone can crush .5/1 for 3bb/hr, and can beat 3/6 for more than .5 bb/hr, of course they should play 3/6, but there are extraneous circumstances as well.250 is awfully short to play at 3/6. You'd be ineffective, scared money. Missing bets, not playing your A-game, and at risk of being wiped out. .5/1 is far more prudent there. If he could put in 1500 instead, yeah, 3/6 would be worth it. But not with 41 big bets. Work within your limitations, discretion is the better part of valor, etc.To the person calling out smash: what he posts here are from 1 specific demonstration he's making about the beatability of low limits, the importance of discipline, money management, and how to play vs. tards. It's not the sum of all his poker play, it's an exercise in bankroll building and working one's way up. He's a big boy, he can defend himself whenever he comes back around, but don't think his project posts represent his status as a poker player in total.I don't care how many times I lose with aces, as long as it gives me a positive net those times I do win.

[bourbenz 0]

boy there sure is a lot of negativity on here! I don't agree that nl is the only game as I dont play it that often but I do find worse players at nl than limit.the big differences in limits as i've noted are that at the micro limits you have several different styles of players, that arent so easy to categorize, you have1. rocks who only play top ten hands and there for are extremely easy to avoid.2.dead money calling stations who will call the river every single hand with bottom pair never raise hoping to suck out.3.steaming higher limit players fighting boredom by recklessly playing low limits.4.crazy players who call all draws and raise with high card low kicker suited draws etc. not neccesarrilly a bad player but one you definately dont want in every pot with you.5. absolute rookies who have no understanding at all of the game.the biggest problem is that in a multiway pot with these players you have such a small advantage of having the best hand at the end, and less room to maneuver.Its true that all these types are there at every limit, and some of the higher limits have worse players than the lower limits, in fact I think online 2-4 is probably a tougher game than 3-6 or 5-10.but What you also have in the higher limits that you dont have in lower limits is scared money, and this is a huge advantage, you can push top pair out with overcard ace king in bigger games, because they dont have the bankroll to test you, the psychologcal game is far better higher up, player types become easier to recognize and, table choice becomes much more important.that being said I built my bankroll climbing from micro limits up a couple of levels. And am no way considering myself great or really even good enough for higher levels yet. But I do consider myself good enough at picking my spots knowing when I'm outclassed finding the right table and players and at making money, which is why I do this.I love poker but I'm here for the money.

[Strokke 0]

NL imo is a more pure version of poker than limit. However that doesn't mean that it takes more skill. I'm the guy who cleaned up NL homegames with being super aggressive, then tried online and lost. Before playing, I researched and found limit to be the most steady way to make money. Lets just say I lost my 50 bucks in about 2 days.I redeposited 50 and became a student of the limit game. I've read plenty of books, lurked in plenty of forums, and learned about portions of the game that I never knew about before. I started playing .05-.10 cent limit and have turned it into 400 dollars and currently two table $1-2.Micro-limits do take skill. They are definitely beatable. There are other ways to beat them than to play super tight. I am still an aggressive person who gets drawn out on 5x more than I actually complete draws myself, however over the past month I have shown significant positive growth in my bankroll.Heres an analogy you might get because you are probably about 8th grade and are in NJB right now.You saying that limit is not poker because bluffing is somewhat eliminated (not true btw) is like an NBA player coming to your basketball practice and saying the following: "You guys are idiots....this isn't basketball. Nobody is dunking. If nobody can dunk...then its not basketball"Dunking, and bluffing, are small parts of very complex games.

[Alcatraz 0]

Who put out the troll food today?Point 1: The OP is clearly a troll. The screen name, the overdone grammar/spelling errors, the need for attention, the bluster all scream out troll. It's patently ludicrous to claim that a 3/6 limit game is superior to a .50/1 game for the reasons posted here -- in essence it's the same game of grinding it out, maximizing edge on big drawing hands in multiway pots full of maniacs, calling stations and novices.That said, I suspect the OP is actualy a decent poker player having a little fun at everyone's expense. His posts, if you ignore the deceptively bad overdone errors, show that he has a firm grasp on several key poker concepts.Point 2: He still raises some interesting points for discussion. Is a game based primarily on big draws and maximizing small edges truly poker? I know a few omaha/8 players that think so. Of course low limit hold 'em is about draing to big hands. Yes, the 37s is the favorite in the example given with 1 pair, a completely live flush draw and a runner straight draw. Furthermore he's getting incredibly good odds to chase the flush and in a low limit game he's likely to get paid off the whole way, making the implied odds astronomical. Fortunately for the player with the AK, the player who came into the pot with a 37s is going to eventualy lose all the money he wins on this pot and over time it will migrate toward the better players.Point 3: Daniel and several posters here think limit poker takes more skill. Mike Caro and several posters here think no limit takes more skill. I think they take a different set of skills and arguing about it is like arguing if apple pie or chocolate cake tastes better.Point 4: I'm not a big fan of chocolate cake. Limit poker bores me. No limit poker, played well, bores me more, but the adrenalin rush once or twice per hour makes up for it.Point 5: If you want to make good money playing low limit NL hold em, I strongly advise you to play at a site that has a "bet pot" button. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.