online sit & go question

[ChipBandit1 0]

Ive had this debate with a friend for a while and was wondering what you guys think.I think when you are in a 9-10 player single table tourney it is much more difficult to win when the overwhelming majority of the players are novice at best, to put it kindly. With the low level of competition combined with how quickly the blinds go up online, All-Ins become the move of choice. People move all-in out of nowhere with almost any ace and any pair.I contend that it is very difficult to consistently win in this format. Say you are all in as a 2 to 1 favorite three times, the odds say you will lose out eventually. you just have to hope that you have accumulated enough chips to where this doesnt affect you, but given the format it is difficult.I also believe that the doctrine that "it evens out over time" doesnt apply here. I think it applies to cash games, where it WILL even out over time. But in a single table tourney, the "over time" is only the tourney itself. Bad Beats are inevitable. Am I just being crazy due to a slew of bad beats over the past three months, or do I have a valid argument?Thanks.

[hoosierAKs 0]

BAD PLAYERS ARE EASIER TO BEAT THAN GOOD PLAYERS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BAD.Thank you.

[deucedeuce 0]

I play $2 and $5 dollar STG's on pokerchamps to pass the time and I finish in the money more often then not. Well, maybe about 50/50 so I disagree.

[semaj550 0]

My guess is that you play at Party Poker. I haven't figured out the proper strategy for playing SNGs there, my win rate is something like 25%, IIRC. However on Ultimate Bet, where the format is MUCH, MUCH better, my win rate (I consider a cash of any sort a "win" when calculating my win rate) is just over 50%.There is a strategy to take advantage of superior skill in PP SNGs, I'm sure of it, but I can't suggest what it is. Play at Ultimate or Stars where you start with 1,500 chips and the blinds aren't at 50/100 after like 40 mins. Your patience, better hand selection and better play will be rewarded more readily than on Party where luck plays a significant role in determining SNG winners.

[bdc30 0]

BAD PLAYERS ARE EASIER TO BEAT THAN GOOD PLAYERS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BAD.Thank you.

ya, what he said.let the donks take each other out and pick your spots.don't get in as a 3-1 favourite, wait em out till you'rea 20-1 favourite...by then most of em will be out anyways.

[BeanGW 0]

I also believe that the doctrine that "it evens out over time" doesnt apply here. I think it applies to cash games, where it WILL even out over time. But in a single table tourney, the "over time" is only the tourney itself. Thanks.

No. You are wrong. "Over time" is over every SNG you play. The return on your investment over 100's of SNG's will even out (and should turn positive) over time if you are a good SNG player.As for the opponents, try some $100 SNG's. I hear the competition is stiff there; you should do quite well. [sw]

[PotDragon 0]

BAD PLAYERS ARE EASIER TO BEAT THAN GOOD PLAYERS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BAD.Thank you.

What else could I say.

[ChipBandit1 0]

My guess is that you play at Party Poker. I haven't figured out the proper strategy for playing SNGs there, my win rate is something like 25%, IIRC. However on Ultimate Bet, where the format is MUCH, MUCH better, my win rate (I consider a cash of any sort a "win" when calculating my win rate) is just over 50%.There is a strategy to take advantage of superior skill in PP SNGs, I'm sure of it, but I can't suggest what it is. Play at Ultimate or Stars where you start with 1,500 chips and the blinds aren't at 50/100 after like 40 mins. Your patience, better hand selection and better play will be rewarded more readily than on Party where luck plays a significant role in determining SNG winners.

Yes Ive played at partypoker for two years now. My win % was around 45% until a few months ago, it has dipped sharply to 37%. I think im done with PP even though it covered my rent before my recent downslide. I'm going to try PokerStars which seems better.I remember when at most there were 45.000 online, now its up to 75.000

[semaj550 0]

I played at Party the first 18 months I played online poker. I haven't played there in around 6 months and I won't be going back. Ultimate Bet is far and away my favorite site but Stars is very good also. I would definately recommend taking your business to either of those sites, especially if you are a tournament (multi or single table) player.

[ChipBandit1 0]

BAD PLAYERS ARE EASIER TO BEAT THAN GOOD PLAYERS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BAD.Thank you.

i agree with that. but when 60% of the table is out to bad-beat you, its difficult.

[Guest]

Ive had this debate with a friend for a while and was wondering what you guys think.I think when you are in a 9-10 player single table tourney it is much more difficult to win when the overwhelming majority of the players are novice at best, to put it kindly.With the low level of competition combined with how quickly the blinds go up online, All-Ins become the move of choice. People move all-in out of nowhere with almost any ace and any pair.

The blinds don't go up that quickly compared to smaller buyin tournies at casinos. You get a decent amount of hands per level unless you're playing on party. Playing with novice players doesn't make it more difficult to win. Just adapt to them. An example is not pushing your small edges preflop so you can push bigger edges postflop. Put the money in when you're a significant favorite, not just a 2-1 favorite. Luck is against you.

I contend that it is very difficult to consistently win in this format. Say you are all in as a 2 to 1 favorite three times, the odds say you will lose out eventually. you just have to hope that you have accumulated enough chips to where this doesnt affect you, but given the format it is difficult.I also believe that the doctrine that "it evens out over time" doesnt apply here. I think it applies to cash games, where it WILL even out over time. But in a single table tourney, the "over time" is only the tourney itself. Bad Beats are inevitable.

You're right in that it's hard to consistantly win. I'm pretty sure it's because you're expecting too much though. Placing ITM (in the money) of 40% of your STTs (single table touries) is very good. I hope you're not aiming for more than that, because it's extremely difficult to do in the long run. Not difficult because of the skill needed, but difficult because of the luck involved.STT results do even out over time. Instead of looking at just one STT, look at all of them. These even out over time, and will show you whether you are a winning player or not.

Am I just being crazy due to a slew of bad beats over the past three months, or do I have a valid argument?Thanks.

Funny thing: whenever people get a run of bad luck, they post about it. Whenever people get a run of good luck, they keep playing and not worry about it. What I'm saying is that it's not surprising that you've been hit bya run of bad beats. These happen to everyone, and I can almost assure you that things will come together for you in the next few months.For more info on stats to aim for and dealing with a run of bad beats, you should seriously considering posting at http://twoplustwo.com. Good luck.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Ive had this debate with a friend for a while and was wondering what you guys think.I think when you are in a 9-10 player single table tourney it is much more difficult to win when the overwhelming majority of the players are novice at best, to put it kindly. With the low level of competition combined with how quickly the blinds go up online, All-Ins become the move of choice. People move all-in out of nowhere with almost any ace and any pair.I contend that it is very difficult to consistently win in this format. Say you are all in as a 2 to 1 favorite three times, the odds say you will lose out eventually. you just have to hope that you have accumulated enough chips to where this doesnt affect you, but given the format it is difficult.I also believe that the doctrine that "it evens out over time" doesnt apply here. I think it applies to cash games, where it WILL even out over time. But in a single table tourney, the "over time" is only the tourney itself. Bad Beats are inevitable. Am I just being crazy due to a slew of bad beats over the past three months, or do I have a valid argument?Thanks.

Read my blog to see if sit and gos are beatable. I don't play at Party, but they can be profitable at the sites I play at.

[potpumper43 0]

Sit n goes can have some wild variance, I know a guy who cashes over 40% who lost 19 straight (I know that sounds impossible) recently. His cash rate is still over 40% after that slide (playing $200 STTs). This guy was top 5 on Party's monthly leaderboard last month even with that swing. Just goes to show what variance is really all about.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read. The reason you are not beating the SNG is not because you are being bad beated its because you suck. When I used to play on Party I used to dominate those SNGs, and yes I am talking about small buy -in SNGs where the players are horrible. That is the reason I dominated them. If you are not beating thes SNGs what is a move to another site gonna do for you? You make money` off of other players mistakes. The less mistakes players make the less money you make. This is the most fundamental principle in poker. The very fact that you do not understand it leads me to believe that you are losing because you are a bad player. If you cant beat the Party SNGs you will get killed at another site.

[case ace 0]

My guess is that you play at Party Poker. I haven't figured out the proper strategy for playing SNGs there, my win rate is something like 25%, IIRC. However on Ultimate Bet, where the format is MUCH, MUCH better, my win rate (I consider a cash of any sort a "win" when calculating my win rate) is just over 50%.There is a strategy to take advantage of superior skill in PP SNGs, I'm sure of it, but I can't suggest what it is. Play at Ultimate or Stars where you start with 1,500 chips and the blinds aren't at 50/100 after like 40 mins. Your patience, better hand selection and better play will be rewarded more readily than on Party where luck plays a significant role in determining SNG winners.

[Pug_Fugly 0]

If you are playing a lot of SNG's you have to remember that the house is taking ~10%. You have to be very successful over time to beat that rake

[angler 0]

If you cannot regularly beat the game you are playing, you are not playing the right game.

[Eagle15C 0]

Im just going to repeat what's already been said, but low level SnG's are CRUSHABLE. Move off party if you can't play the all in fest and play low level at stars or UB, the players are just as bad but you get enough chips/time to play with so you can do a lot post-flop. You'll have up and downs, but you can destroy these games. I'm coming off a 12 straight SnG win streak at stars right now.

[apple11 0]

i heard full tilt has a good mtt system is that true or does it become an all in fest at the end. Does anyone know a site where it isnt an all in fest at the end of a big mtt