question for my poker friends

[royyoung 0]

oh and yes i tilted off i had about 40k left and the very next hand get 9,9 so of course im on tilt and say allin get called with kq and a k on the turn knocks me out!

[Royal_Tour 0]

as the one who p[layed the hand i will tell you that we playedaround 20 minutes or all theway around atleast twice so the chances of two allins would take awhile.also i was last to act so iwasnt afraid of anyone calling.

so u were BB.. or did u limp?CUZ JESUS CHRIST THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.IF YOUR BB YOU ARE 100% CALLING THIS.

[greatwhite 0]

oh and yes i tilted off i had about 40k left and the very next hand get 9,9 so of course im on tilt and say allin get called with kq and a k on the turn knocks me out!

Like I said if you wait someone will call a pocket pair with a marginal high hand-kq, were they looking for trouble?

[Spademan 94]

as the one who p[layed the hand i will tell you that we playedaround 20 minutes or all theway around atleast twice so the chances of two allins would take awhile.also i was last to act so iwasnt afraid of anyone calling.

Seeing the size of your stack relative to the blind makes it an easy call.Last to act makes it an auto-call.

[Dhall901 0]

As a general rule, I like to always be heads up for all the chips with pocket aces..call me crazy.

[royyoung 0]

no i wasnt big blind but i was the last bet of 10k(no raise) after the BB posted so it came to me to call last meaning everyone folded to me.

[Royal_Tour 0]

no i wasnt big blind but i was the last bet of 10k(no raise) after the BB posted so it came to me to call last meaning everyone folded to me.

ok.. wait. u said earlier, there was no one behind you.. that is false. SB and BB are behind you??right?? or did u limp?

[angryman 0]

Yes, the Aces are obviously huge favourites. There's no one here who "doesn't get" that part of it.I think Chindi makes the more important question perfectly clear "It is somewhere between a 70 - 90% chance to eliminate a player and finish in the top 7, can you say that the chances to finish in the top 7 if he lays this down are as strong?"And the answer to that question will vary player by player and game by game. If I suck (purely hypothetical of course) those Aces are a godsend. If I rule (even more hypothetical) then I may actually have better odds if I avoid large pots, see a few flops and can outplay an opponent in a hand or two.I've had plenty of times where the AA would obviously be my best shot. But I've also had times where I felt I could outplay/outlast the table and would have been comfortable folding the AA rather than calling an all-in pre-flop. Of course most of the time I neither suck nor rule, so the only guarantee is that if I lose I'll be kicking myself for not doing the opposite.p.s.I see posters I respect disagreeing in this thread and find it informative. p.p.s.I would like to see the phrase "HOT POTATOE!" used more frequently on the boards.

[moneymanbc 0]

The only way I can see folding here is you are a short stack and you there is an 'all-in' and someone else has already called. This would still be a hard laydown of course.

[royyoung 0]

I intially limped not wanting to risk alot but even limping 3 others folded and he went allin the sb fold and bb fold and then its on me

[greatwhite 0]

If I could I would show the aces and fold them. I would definately tell the table I folded aces. This gives me more credit when I'm stealing the blinds and antes.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I intially limped not wanting to risk alot but even limping 3 others folded and he went allin the sb fold and bb fold and then its on me

aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Dubey 1,035]

Was this guy tight or loose? Big stack or small stack? Position?Without knowing the tables "mood" on the whole I say you absolutely did the right thing. You had to fire your pocket rockets. You just got very unlucky..........

what the hell does it matter if the guy was tight or loose, or what the "mood" of the table is. You have the best possible starting hand, and you are AT WORST a 77% favourite to win the hand, its an auto call, no thinking, a-u-t-o-m-a-t-i-c.

What does the mood of the table matter? You're kidding, right? Based on the fact that 1st thru 7th got the same prize it matters a great deal. Was this guy on the button and short stacked? Was he a strong player? And did calling with those aces mean going broke? If so then I would have let the aces muck...depending on if I had to go broke to call. But like I said, I think he ultimately did the right thing calling with aces.And in my book there is no such thing as an "auto call". That mindset is ultimately reckless and is an invitation to financial ruin.

whether or not he is a strong player, a loose player, a tight player, a phil Ivey, a chris Moneymaker, it doesn't make him any more likely to beat your pocket aces in an all-in race.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Yes, the Aces are obviously huge favourites. There's no one here who "doesn't get" that part of it.p.s.I see posters I respect disagreeing in this thread and find it informative. p.p.s.I would like to see the phrase "HOT POTATOE!" used more frequently on the boards.

Yes. this is true.!!and if you are gathering information on posters, i'l have you know this. Today is not my best day. i was up skinny dipping at 3am. what can u do. its been a celebration week for me. and i was up at 7am this morning.. a little over exhausted. sorry chaps

[Randy Reed 0]

The thing that i thought of immediately was a pro going to the rail to sit out at one of the big Bellagio tournies a few spots from the money, he was being interviewed and said, "There is no way I'm going to get sucked in with AA and not make the money!" If you aren't going to play AA, then click sit out and hope for the best.

[nealdo17 0]

I intially limped not wanting to risk alot but even limping 3 others folded and he went allin the sb fold and bb fold and then its on me

End of discussion, he limped with AA. You set your own trap. He probably would have called, but who is to say what could have happened. You most certainly raise it to at least 40K first orbit, no question.

[greatwhite 0]

I intially limped not wanting to risk alot but even limping 3 others folded and he went allin the sb fold and bb fold and then its on me

End of discussion, he limped with AA. You set your own trap. He probably would have called, but who is to say what could have happened. You most certainly raise it to at least 40K first orbit, no question.

Why'd you limp with AA? Bad play!

[THIR13EN 0]

FOLD, You can wait for a better place to make your move.You want to get an under pair or low unsuited nonconnectors to their suited over cards or even better there over pair. Good luck next time.ALSOI don't know why anyone is arguing that he should not have limped with AA, you think that the guy with big slick would fold anyways? He limped and got exactly what he could have hoped for a person behind him moving in. He was a huge favorite to win the hand, was unlucky, and caught a bad beat. I think he played it well and it was an unavoidable situation.

[Rusty266 0]

I would probably play the AA in this spot, it would be tough not too. But I can't say its the right play in this situation. Folding your way to a seat is not guaranteed, but thats not the only option here if you choose not to play the AA. As tight as the tables usually are at this point, most preflop raises are successful, making it easy to increase or at least maintain your chip level with zero risk. The many arguments calling for folding AA preflop in this spot make this point clear. If most will fold even AA in this spot, why in the world would you to gamble at all? Steal the blinds and antes, increase your chip stack with no risk and let the idiots that are there to gamble play their AA and get it cracked. All factors considered, chip stack, tight table, 1-7 all pay the same, there's no need to gamble here. Naturally if you are the short stack in this spot you push with much less of a hand, because then you do have to gamble.I have a question for those that have responded. How many times have you been in a similar spot, played your AA and been knocked out? I have, so I guess you could say I learned the hard way. AA? Easy call, the next thing you know you're the short stack and then out when you're 99 gets beaten by AK. And all you had to do was lay the AA down and coast home. Stupidity, bravado, ego, whatever the case may be, does not win in this spot. As strong as AA is preflop, you may have a better chance by laying it down. Thats what Skalansy says anyway. In fact, in his book for tournament players, he advocates folding AA in some spots when positions 1-7 do not pay the same prize. In the case where they do, its a much stronger argument.Rusty

[Armbar 0]

The great Phil Helmuth has written on this subject. http://www.philhellmuth.com/hand_of_the_we...ek.php?howid=50

[greatwhite 0]

The great Phil Hellmuth sides with me. I rest my case. :wink:

[cgrohman 0]

I had even a more precarious situation happen to me. I was at the final table 7 handed at a $1000 buy-in multitable satellite for teh WPT Foxwwods. 6 peopel wer egetting seats. At the final table I played extremely agressive and built up my short stack to become 2nd in chips. The play was queaky tight but there was one incredibly short stack in the BB with only 3 times the BB left. The 3rd chip postion pushed in utg for about 65% of my stack. I look down onthe button to see my first AA of the 7 hour tournament. I am absolutely positive that I would have folded QQ here, and possibly even KK. I called. He had 99 and cracked me ont he river. I still think it was the right call. Someone has to end the torunament, and if you cant do it with the best hand, who will.c

Who cares? The key here is you dont want to put your chips at maximum risk with minimum reward. Worst case scenario your aces get cracked and your out, or at least severely shortstacked. Best case scenario, your aces hold up and you get the same result you would have had sitting on your hands and folding everything. Really you gave a perfect example of why to fold here.

good advice.** and by that i mean i cant believe you dont choke on your own spit, given the stupidity you have exhibited in making this post.

Not necessarrily. I had about $40-45K and there was about $240K in play. Big stack had a huge amount. 2 Low Stacks had about 20K. Blinds were just about to go up to $4K-$8K with $1K ante. I ended up making the WPT anyway when the short stack took a bad beat AK against AQ

[cgrohman 0]

Also, how I got $45K from my orginal $15K was when it was 10 handed people were folding premium holdings to my raises. Granted, being on the bubble is different. Had 2 people moved in, or someone who had me covered, it would be a different story as Hellmuth says in his column. I cant see folding a guaranteed mimimum 80% favorite hand in this situation. With the blinds, I think there is a 20% chance that I lose anyway.

[chindi 0]

no i wasnt big blind but i was the last bet of 10k(no raise) after the BB posted so it came to me to call last meaning everyone folded to me.

Normally I'd say you started wrong here. because if you'd raised it to 30 or 40k you might have saved 20K in chips. But in this case I think this guy was going in no matter what.I will say that this was not the smartest move at this point in the tournament since the last thing you want on the bubble with AA is as many limpers as possible. It also made it impossible for you to put him on anything, since he could have been making a naked steal attempt at the 30K in the middle.Mind you, I think regardless of how you bet here all of his chips were going cause after all big slick is the (insert blah blah blah). But in future, this is a dangerous time to limp.

[chindi 0]

I don't know why anyone is arguing that he should not have limped with AA, you think that the guy with big slick would fold anyways? He limped and got exactly what he could have hoped for a person behind him moving in. He was a huge favorite to win the hand, was unlucky, and caught a bad beat. I think he played it well and it was an unavoidable situation.

I disagree about folding.I agree that regardless of bet/raise/type the krablar dance, the guy on the SB is going all in.I strongly disagree that he played it well.In THIS case, he got exactly what he hoped for, one guy shipping in and him an overwhleming favorite. In many other cases he gets several limpers, a middling flop and is now in a position where he knows nothing about anyone in the flop.In some likely cases here, he gets 2 or 3 limpers, the SB goes all in and then he's sitting with AA, an all-in in front of him, and 2 or 3 limpers he knows nothing about behind him. That sort of thing would turn this decision into a gigantic MEH, where he'd almost have to lay it down since he doesn't want to see a HUGE pot with 4 players, and might just watch the SB double-up by virtue of noone calling.Limping here, was a horrible idea.