tournaments are for donkeys

[Acesgotcracked 0]

The best players never win(very infrequently). Its just disgusting to see these terrible players who have no notable poker accomplishments before winning, and will have no after winning millions at this final table become famous and be made famous because they get lucky over the course of one tournament. Kanter and Dannenbaum are absolute donkeys who many players on this forum and players that I play with in Dallas could anihalate heads up. Its just absolutely sickening. As Smash said these tournament are 90% luck. I know this has been discussed but it just sickens me that two donkeys of the first rate are gonna be considered by the general public great players. Maybe ESPN should show some of these young upstarts risking there tourny winnings against some top pros in a cash game and watch the carnage play out. But instead most of the people in the general public and on this forum will think of Kanter(donkified SOB) and Dannenbaum(weak weak weak) as great players, when they arent even good.

[SilentSnow 1]

Hand 125 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 8, Barch raises to $600,000, Dannenmann calls, and Black calls. The flop comes 9s-6c-5c, Black bets $1,000,000, Barch folds, and Dannenmann sits still, looking at the cards. He doesn't look that interested, but after a little while he quietly says, "All in."Now Black lifts his sunglasses up on his head, and starts taking the situation more seriously, studying the board with a wry smile. Dannenmann is smiling back at him a bit, which he's done a lot tonight. Finally, Black confidently says, "I call."Black shows 10s-9h (top pair), while Dannenmann has As-6s (second pair). Dannenmann needs to catch a six, an ace, or running spades to win this pot, which could be the largest of the tournament so far.The turn card is the 3c, and Dannenmann needs to catch a six or an ace (5 outs) to stay alive.The river card is the Ac, and Dannenmann makes two pair to take a huge pot from the Irishman Andrew Black.thought you would appreciate his skill at rivering black. the preflop call of a raise with a6 was also impressive

[Guest XXEddie]

though I agree tournaments are some what luck. An over-looked factor is that ist what you do with that luckAnyone can pick up AA 3 times in an hour, but if you dont know how to play them correctly your chips wont rise

[Guest]

yeah pure luck that they made it this far. :roll:

[Acesgotcracked 0]

Yeah but you can pick up a big hand, raise with it preflop and get no callers and your Aces are more or less wasted.

[Acesgotcracked 0]

What is the other option: That in spite of the numerous god awful plays of Kanter and Dannenbaum they are two of the greatest NLH players in the world. Yes they have been exceptionally lucky to make it this far.

[alf13 0]

Those two guys are morons...But there are two very good players....at this table also...Tex Barch and Andy Black....especially Tex Barch....that guy has been an artist in this final table.

[SilentSnow 1]

revenge of the shark!!Hand 132 - Andrew Black has the button in seat 2, Hachem limps for $200,000, Barch limps from the small blind, and Kanter checks his option. The flop comes Kc-10s-7s, it's checked to Hachem, who bets $450,000, Barch reraises to $1,000,000, Kanter reraises to $2,000,000, and it's back to Hachem, who clearly didn't expect this. Hachem folds.Barch thinks a bit, then reraises to $4,500,000. We have a huge pot, and the preflop action was nothing but limpers. What does everyone have? Pocket sevens? As-Ks? Qs-Js? A bluff? (If you're listening to the CardPlayer.com audio commentary, you can hear former World Series of Poker champions Phil Hellmuth and Chris "Jesus" Ferguson discuss the strategies that might be in play here.)Minutes pass as Kanter's mind works through the possibilities. The crowd starts to get a little restless, and you can hear the murmur as everyone has their own theories about who has what, and whether or not Kanter will stay in the hand.After several very long minutes, Aaron Kanter quietly says, "All in." Now the spotlight is back on Tex Barch. He stands up to think, and after another minute or two he makes the call.Tex Barch shows Kd-7d (two pair), while Kanter has Kh-5d (one pair). Kanter needs to hit a ten or something runner-runner to win this pot. The turn card is the Qh, and Kanter needs to catch a ten or a queen to tie, chopping the pot.The river card is the Jd, and Tex Barch has doubled up into the chip lead, with about $22,000,000. That was the biggest pot in <i>World Series of Poker</i> history.

[anselm 0]

I hate these "tournaments are for donkeys" meme but I will certainly agree with you re: Dannenmann and Kanter (and Lazar).The other three I'm so convinced are total fish. As so many others have pointed out, Barch and Black seem very competent and I think we'll see more of them.

[Acesgotcracked 0]

revenge of the shark!! Kanter's mind works through the possibilities. BS, I dont beleive it

[meijin 0]

While I don't necessarily disagree with what has been siad of these players, I do believe that probably no one on this site other than DN knows how they would play in a situation such as this with this kind of stress....Michael

[anselm 0]

While I don't necessarily disagree with what has been siad of these players, I do believe that probably no one on this site other than DN knows how they would play in a situation such as this with this kind of stress....Michael

If you don't believe the people here, just listen to Hellmuth, Ferguson, Harmon, Lindgren, etc on the Cardplayer broadcast...

[greatwhite 0]

The only 2 I feel bad for are Black and Matusow. They obviously wanted this tournament the most. I'm glad to see the people go who just care about the money like all the 20 years olds. Go Tex!

[awnex 0]

Considering all the bad reviews of the newsest 'top finalists' and winner of the 2005 wsop has anyone taken into consideration that these people have been playing aslong as all the other current professionals and just never entered the tournamnet? I mean what did people say when Phil and Chan won the wsop? Or how about "Fossilman" he won last year and came in 25th this year... but he got in via satellite... before we flame the 'newbs' in WSOP we should probably take into consideration their back ground... Daniel or Doyle still should have won... but thats in the past.

[jonnyz 0]

Everyone who has won the wsop has won because they got a huge rush of cards. You just never could prove it because you didnt get to see the hole cards. Any good player can win a one week tournament, if you get mad about this you are probably too stupid to be a winning player anyway so don't stress about it. Poker isn't chess or bridge, its not even gin or hearts. In those games the best players in the world will win the majority of the time. Thats why 5000 people aren't putting up $10k to play in a chess tournament. The very thing that makes you angry is why good players make money at poker. The fish get a sense of confidence because of short term success so they continue to bleed money long term.

[Erik67 0]

Say what you want about them. They have 7.5 and 4.25 million more than anybody who posts in this thread won.Matusow might have your respect, but you can't spend respect. It's all about the Benjamins.

[Ben Arnold 0]

What is everyones problem with no name players having a great run?Everyone starts out as a no name and becomes a name when they go on a run. Everyone on this site loves the "pros" and rips the "amatuers"The diffrence bewteen a pro and an amatuer is that an amatuer has a life outside of poker. It has nothing to do with their poker skills. Poker is not rocket science, especially NL Holdem. NL combines intution and some math and the rest is left up to the Poker Fairy. Amatuers are just as skilled at the game, and to hear the "pros" ( those poor fools who have let their affliction degenerate into a life of massive ups and downs) deride these amatuers is just their pathetic cry to try and extend their 15 minutes. With the size of the fields and poularity and relative simplicity of the game, these "pros" realize that their chance of being at Final Tables is being greatly reduced. Final Tables = parlay for personal maketing. Cheer and idolize your favorite Pro, but the amatuer is just as skilled.Amatuers choose not to sit at a table for 90 hours a week. That sounds like fun!

[Ben Arnold 0]

What is everyones problem with no name players having a great run?Everyone starts out as a no name and becomes a name when they go on a run. Everyone on this site loves the "pros" and rips the "amatuers"The diffrence bewteen a pro and an amatuer is that an amatuer has a life outside of poker. It has nothing to do with their poker skills. Poker is not rocket science, especially NL Holdem. NL combines intution and some math and the rest is left up to the Poker Fairy. Amatuers are just as skilled at the game, and to hear the "pros" ( those poor fools who have let their affliction degenerate into a life of massive ups and downs) deride these amatuers is just their pathetic cry to try and extend their 15 minutes. With the size of the fields and poularity and relative simplicity of the game, these "pros" realize that their chance of being at Final Tables is being greatly reduced. Final Tables = parlay for personal maketing. Cheer and idolize your favorite Pro, but the amatuer is just as skilled.Amatuers choose not to sit at a table for 90 hours a week. That sounds like fun!

[CaneBrain 95]

I hate these "tournaments are for donkeys" meme but I will certainly agree with you re: Dannenmann and Kanter (and Lazar).The other three I'm so convinced are total fish. As so many others have pointed out, Barch and Black seem very competent and I think we'll see more of them.

Kanter made a plethora of bad moves...i was unimpressed. however, black, barch and hachem could easily be very good players who we just didnt know about it yet.This site is full of amatuer poker players....and yet everyone seems to hate that a lot of no-names did so well....I dont get it is it jealousy? They put up their money or they won their way on and they deserve what they got. Luck is part of the game. I feel bad for Matusow but KK v. AA happens. Should that guy not have played AA??? I didnt see Hachem make one bad move all night. It is possible he is a worthy champion. People said Raymer was a luckbox too last year and now after this year it looks like maybe he is pretty damn good. Lets give hachem and co. time to prove they might actually be good players.

[Mister Hand 0]

Hand 125 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 8, Barch raises to $600,000, Dannenmann calls, and Black calls. The flop comes 9s-6c-5c, Black bets $1,000,000, Barch folds, and Dannenmann sits still, looking at the cards. He doesn't look that interested, but after a little while he quietly says, "All in."Now Black lifts his sunglasses up on his head, and starts taking the situation more seriously, studying the board with a wry smile. Dannenmann is smiling back at him a bit, which he's done a lot tonight. Finally, Black confidently says, "I call."Black shows 10s-9h (top pair), while Dannenmann has As-6s (second pair). Dannenmann needs to catch a six, an ace, or running spades to win this pot, which could be the largest of the tournament so far.The turn card is the 3c, and Dannenmann needs to catch a six or an ace (5 outs) to stay alive.The river card is the Ac, and Dannenmann makes two pair to take a huge pot from the Irishman Andrew Black.thought you would appreciate his skill at rivering black. the preflop call of a raise with a6 was also impressive

In a short handed game, Dannenmann called a standard preflop raise with an ace. If the blinds fold, he's getting close to the correct pot odds right there, and he'll have position for the rest of the hand. What would be a bad play in the first hour of a tournament is pretty reasonable here. When the big blind calls, Dannenmann is definitely getting the right price.The 9-6-5 flop is unlikely to help the preflop raiser if he raised on two big cards. If one of those big cards is an ace, Danneman has him dominated. He also has a backdoor nut flush draw to give him a couple more outs. Black, the big blind, bets one million. The preflop raiser folds. Dannenmann has to think here. He knows that Black knows that the flop was unlikely to help the preflop raiser. Is he trying to buy the pot with a drawing hand like two clubs? Could he have a suited 5-4, or an A-5 (both reasonable calling hands preflop with the pot odds), and think his hand is the best? Black could also have a hand like 7-6 or 8-6, giving him second pair and a gutshot straight draw. If he flopped top pair, wouldn't he check to the preflop raiser to see if he could checkraise after Barch made a standard continuation bet?Does he or doesn't he have a nine?By going all-in, he puts the question to Black. Black didn't call right away. He took his time on this one. Now he has to think: Did Dannenmann flop a monster, like a straight or trips? Is he semibluffing a flush draw? Does he have my nine outkicked? It wasn't an easy call, especially for so many chips. So yes, Dannenmann got lucky to outdraw Black. But just because you outdrew someone doesn't mean you played the hand like an idiot.

[jill_idle 0]

Its just disgusting to see these terrible players who have no notable poker accomplishments before winning, and will have no after winning millions at this final table become famous and be made famous because they get lucky over the course of one tournament.

It's disgusting to you? This is poker. Maybe the golf channel has something more to your liking.

[CaneBrain 95]

Its just disgusting to see these terrible players who have no notable poker accomplishments before winning, and will have no after winning millions at this final table become famous and be made famous because they get lucky over the course of one tournament.

It's disgusting to you? This is poker. Maybe the golf channel has something more to your liking.

What Jill said.

[Oziumrules 0]

The best players never win(very infrequently). Its just disgusting to see these terrible players who have no notable poker accomplishments before winning, and will have no after winning millions at this final table become famous and be made famous because they get lucky over the course of one tournament. Kanter and Dannenbaum are absolute donkeys who many players on this forum and players that I play with in Dallas could anihalate heads up. Its just absolutely sickening. As Smash said these tournament are 90% luck. I know this has been discussed but it just sickens me that two donkeys of the first rate are gonna be considered by the general public great players. Maybe ESPN should show some of these young upstarts risking there tourny winnings against some top pros in a cash game and watch the carnage play out. But instead most of the people in the general public and on this forum will think of Kanter(donkified SOB) and Dannenbaum(weak weak weak) as great players, when they arent even good.

Tournaments maybe for donkeys, but in the long run the best players (professionals) always rise to the top in tournaments. You will never see a no name win Player of the Year. Tournament poker is the reason the game has gotten HUGE....and its fun to watch!

[caphair 0]

The best players never win(very infrequently). Its just disgusting to see these terrible players who have no notable poker accomplishments before winning, and will have no after winning millions at this final table become famous and be made famous because they get lucky over the course of one tournament. Kanter and Dannenbaum are absolute donkeys who many players on this forum and players that I play with in Dallas could anihalate heads up. Its just absolutely sickening. As Smash said these tournament are 90% luck. I know this has been discussed but it just sickens me that two donkeys of the first rate are gonna be considered by the general public great players. Maybe ESPN should show some of these young upstarts risking there tourny winnings against some top pros in a cash game and watch the carnage play out. But instead most of the people in the general public and on this forum will think of Kanter(donkified SOB) and Dannenbaum(weak weak weak) as great players, when they arent even good.

where do you play in dallas? i live in dallas and go to school at SMU.

[zimmer4141 0]

Before you all say how terrible these people played, remember 2 things:1) This is a tournament2) Most of these final table hands were shorthanded.I know that Lazar drew a lot of criticism for his call of an all in with K9s. However, I thought about the hand and a few factors may have played in.He was in the SB, and raised the BB. The BB went all in, which is a vast overbet of the pot. For those who don't play in tournaments, this screams of a resteal play. A suited king is a favorite over a random hand, and the BB could have anything. I don't know if I would have called in that spot, but I would consider it.