Offical Sunday Thread

[FCP Bob 1,320]

gl DD

[DiamondDixie 12]

Still in the Rev. 100K and both the WPN 75K and 100K and ITM in the Rev $11 10K. Send me some good karma cause this is going to be an expensive day if I don't ship something.

 

Cobalt if you're in the 75K Beast I think you're at my table, I'm GodSmacked.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Cobalt if you're in the 75K Beast I think you're at my table, I'm GodSmacked.

What were you doing on that KJ hand?

 

Brag: Won an MTT.

Beat: It was just the "big" Sunday on SWC...so like $300. =P

Variance: Still chugging along in the Bovada 100k and WPN 100k.

[DiamondDixie 12]

Trying to be creative

 

Good luck in this 100K let's FT this thing. Currently 17 of 41 left, I see you're way up there Cobalt

 

EDIT: TT > KJ for a double in the WPN 100K - 7/28

 

Nice double Cobalt let's FT this thing!

[CobaltBlue 662]

gl, DD

[DiamondDixie 12]

Final table now 5/9, thanks and GG Cobalt.

 

7th for $2970, the FT was awful there were 2 3 and 4bb stacks and I had 10 to 15 most of the FT. Both shorties doubled and one doubled again. I ended up in btn vs my SB getting it in with AK v his KQs and he hit the flush.

 

Will you guys look at this hand from earlier at the FT and tell me what you think ICM wise with these two super shorties:

 

Winning Poker Network - 12,500/25,000 NL - Holdem - 7 players

Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

 

Hero (BTN): 252,667.00

SB: 52,260.00

BB: 791,872.00

UTG: 1,160,043.00

UTG+1: 1,049,495.00

MP: 28,948.00

CO: 2,164,715.00

 

SB posts ante 2,500.00, BB posts ante 2,500.00, UTG posts ante 2,500.00, UTG+1 posts ante 2,500.00, MP posts ante 2,500.00, CO posts ante 2,500.00, Hero posts ante 2,500.00, SB posts SB 12,500.00, BB posts BB 25,000.00

 

Pre Flop: (pot: 55000.00) Hero has Qc Ks

 

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero ???

 

I don't see BB calling with much more than premiums he was good and tight, sb didn't matter much imo but with these guys so short is this a fold?

 

[gadjet 11]

If BB has been playing noticeably tight, I think you're supposed raise for sure, an open fold is too light. Fold here and if either shorty doubles you're kind of committing to the waiting game.... not that you can't change your mind but for me if I make a decision to fold it's kind of a gear switch commitment into trying to outlast the two shortys.

 

I know this is very unpopular but I actually like to limp here. I think that button raises at an FT get reshoved too lightly and it puts the button in meh situations with unneccessary races... a limp reads as stronger imo.

 

The hand has great play value but not good race value.

 

Obv I call the SB shove, but fold to a BB move preflop.

 

On the flop I can lead any flop with a 10 or higher if it's checked to me, for 2/3's of the pot and TID a large % of the time. Also plenty of ways to connect and get good value post flop.

 

Anyways, I know it's unpopular against common opinion, but I'm confident with the play for 1st protecting my stack, 2nd cheap spot to safely pick up blinds, 3rd play a strong hand for value.

[rcgs59 15]

gg DD and Colbalt

[CobaltBlue 662]

DD, still seems like a shove to me. Would have to give us payouts to calculate ICM though.

[HighwayStar 8]

Looks really close but probably a shove. As well as the 2 short stacks, the disparity between you and the next largest stack might make this a close fold, hard to tell for sure without an ICM calculator.

[DiamondDixie 12]

Here are the payouts:

 

1 - 21,450

2 - 13,475

3 - 9,350

4 - 7,150

5 - 5,500

6 - 4,070

7 - 2,970

[kobe2odom8 14]

Think it's a pretty easy jam DD, especially with the sb being so short.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Okay...got this so far...

 

[gadjet 11]

I posted this in the tourney strategy section for discussion, but also asked the question of when and how you guys are using ICM, especially to determine shove ranges.

I'll post the ICM calc numbers there too.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=146537&pid=3577113&st=0&&do=findComment&comment=3577113

[DiamondDixie 12]

Colbalt I hate to admit it but I have no idea what that actually means.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Just one L.

 

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where to go from there...though I can interpret those numbers. I believe the next step is to run the ICM again based on various scenarios (shoving and taking the blinds, shoving and losing, etc) and throw those into an equation. Fortunately, a friend threw them into a program that did all of that to get this...

 

 

So as suspected, it's a shove.

[gadjet 11]

I dunno, the BB is set to call 15% for a third of his stack which moves him instantly from the tall stack group to the middle pack easily bullied? We also know from DD that BB has been playing tight, imo against DD's stack BB is going to play even tighter because they'd look to avoid evening their stack with DD's... I think 15% is very high here, which makes taking it down preflop higher, but losing postflop way higher too... not sure how it affects the edge numbers, but I.

 

I still say this is a hand too close to let ICM decide, and is a spot to play outside of it's box. ICM does not factor future hands.

- you can have very similar stack effect without a shove, if BB is playing tight it's very unlikely he gets creative and makes a 3bet raise with any hand he wouldn't have called the shove.

- if you fold the SB is all but guaranteed a call if he shoves his shorty...

- UTG+2 is 3 hands max from an allin situation.

- Because you get the round of action before BB, when you are the button folding can be worth more than ICM calcs say...

 

etc etc.. anyway, there's my vote.

[TrueAce13 18]

Cobalt, is that copied from Highway's post? He said that he typed something in wrong when doing the calculation.

 

After thinking it about it, I definitely agree w/ kobe2odom8 who says this is a pretty easy jam. SB can call and we are almost always ahead of his 2bb range obv, and it we are forcing BB to wake up w/ a hand and he can call worse a decent amount of the time.

 

so ya, slug it in!!!!

[mrpaddyx 13]

My detailed analysis of the hand is - its a shove ainec

[HighwayStar 8]

Cobalt, is that copied from Highway's post? He said that he typed something in wrong when doing the calculation.

 

After thinking it about it, I definitely agree w/ kobe2odom8 who says this is a pretty easy jam. SB can call and we are almost always ahead of his 2bb range obv, and it we are forcing BB to wake up w/ a hand and he can call worse a decent amount of the time.

 

so ya, slug it in!!!!

 

Edited the screenshot too. This should reflect reality.

[DiamondDixie 12]

Cobalt I think I spell it right like 8 out of 10 times, LOL.

 

This turned into a pretty good discussion on that hand, I shoved it and I'm comfortable that it was the correct decision. They did both fold.

 

Wanna see the one that was even a tougher spot? Okay you got it....

 

Guy opening seems reasonably competent and I haven't seen him call off light or spew. It was confusing with the BB forced AI being that the OR is raising UTG1 and he knows he's going to have to showdown due to the forced AI. Due to this I'm assuming he's opening tighter than under other circumstances.

 

This one is also different because now we only have the one micro stack who's AI anyway, next to that I'm the shortie.

 

I've gotten several differing opinions on this one so what do you guys think?

 

 

Winning Poker Network - 12,500/25,000 NL - Holdem - 7 players

Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

 

Hero (SB): 267,667.00

BB: 24,760.00

UTG: 739,372.00

UTG+1: 1,480,857.00

MP: 661,441.00

CO: 208,688.00

BTN: 2,117,215.00

 

Hero posts ante 2,500.00, BB posts ante 2,500.00, UTG posts ante 2,500.00, UTG+1 posts ante 2,500.00, MP posts ante 2,500.00, CO posts ante 2,500.00, BTN posts ante 2,500.00, Hero posts SB 12,500.00, BB posts BB 22,260.00

 

Pre Flop: (pot: 52260.00) Hero has Ac Qd

 

fold, UTG+1 raises to 56,888.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero?

[CorvairShaggy 5]

I haven't played in forever, but I'll give it a shot.

 

Shove

 

UTG+1 probably has something; would guess maybe any type PP. But, I think it is really more of a situational decision tho. Even if you fold this, you and CO are only about 2 BBs difference. So, even if you waited, you might move up one more spot in the prize pool. But, you are getting so low that you'll be getting picked on based on stack sizes/position if that hasn't happened already. Agree it's not the best spot to be in.

 

I guess more conservative play would be just flat it, and if you catch the flop, then get it in, if not fold. You will only be spending about another 40k, which if you folded would put you at the same as CO, which means you are going to be shoving soon, and 4 of the remaining 6 would be getting pretty good odds to call against you anyway.

 

What do you think your image was to the rest of the table? Tight/Compentent/ or did you you showdown with a "oops" earlier that may give them the wrong impression?

[kobe2odom8 14]

Haven't played in a while but I think it's a fold. Bb is going to call it off here and the sizable pay jumps make me think we should fold. We don't even have a pair

[gadjet 11]

In these stages of a tournament, I would 99% rather be the aggressor than the caller.

I fold and look for spots to be the shover. AQ has very few hands in UTG+1's range dominated, and is crushed by a few... flipping the majority... I would much rather play for fold equity in coin flip situations.

 

Now I wait for everyone to answer snap call lol

[CobaltBlue 662]

gadjet, keep in mind that even though we're UTG+1, we're 7-handed, so they're really more of an MP.

 

DD, I'd go ahead and shove. There's 74k in the main pot (84k after we get in there). There will be another 70k in the side pot if we call. We're jamming in another 208k over the 57k raise...so risking 208k to pick up 154k. Opponent will need to call the 208k to win 362k. So, we may not have massive fold equity, but we certainly have some. I do think he's got a bit of a tighter range than normal with BB's stack as it is, but our 3-bet should get some respect as a result.

 

If UTG+1 folds, we'll have 64% equity against BB's random hand...and even if we lose it, no big deal...we still made a smidge by picking up the side pot. I think we also are going to have plenty of equity against UTG+1's range.