2012 Elections

[strategy 4]

I'm still optimistically hoping the R's will find someone who isn't terrible. It's looking pretty bad now, though. Ron Paul seems to be hinting that if he doesn't get the nomination he will burn down the Republican party and run as a third party, something I am wildly in favor of. Yes, it will give Obama 4 more years, but 4 more years of bad government is better than forever ceding the reigns of government to empty suits and brainless corporate whores -- and that's exactly what settling for Romney would do.

pretty sure being a part of the debates also means he has to sign away the ability to run as a 3rd party candidate. at least that's how it worked last time, supposedly.in any event, he knows the most impact he can hope to ever have with his views is to make the republicans look idiotic in debates, and he did that quite well in 08. I have yet to watch anything of substance from this run.

It won't be a miracle when the economy recovers sometime between 2012-2016. It's almost a forgone conclusion that this will happen and that Obama will get all of the credit for about 20 years, and then history will fix it.

I'm still waiting for the consensus on reagan. or FDR. or anyone, for that matter.bernanke deserves a lot of credit for the recovery. bush, too, because he broke with his party and pushed so freaking hard for the bailout... one of the reasons he's universally reviled today, though not the biggest reason obviously. don't know how much credit you can give obama, given that an R under similar circumstances probably would have done a lot of the same stuff.

[hblask 1]

pretty sure being a part of the debates also means he has to sign away the ability to run as a 3rd party candidate. at least that's how it worked last time, supposedly.

I had never heard that, but I don't see how the Republicans could possibly control somebody in that way. The R's have no control over the Green or the Libertarian or the Constitution parties. How could they possibly bind someone like that?I saw a report today RP is denying he will do a 3rd party run.... who knows. It would be uncharacteristic of him at this point.

[ahosang 0]

The Big 5 that are allowed Nukes under Non-Proliferation treaties are USA, Russia, United Kingdom, France and China.Pakistan and India both have nukes and North Korea has tested nuclear devices.Israel for sure has nukes and South Africa before free elections also had them but dismantled them before the first free elections Blacks got their hands on them*.There are countries like Japan and Canada that have the technology and capability to build nuclear weapons quite quickly if they wanted to but don't currently have them.Iran of course is working on developing nukes.I wrote this off the top of my head so I might be forgetting somebody. Some of the old Soviet Republics like Ukraine had nukes on their territories when the Soviet Union broke up but my understanding is that they were all decommissioned or sent to Russia.

* FYPThe only nation ever to voluntarily dismantle existing nuclear capability happened to be the one that was about to become a Black rule nation. The fact that the ANC had seemed peaceful with Mandela at the helm etc wasn't enough to stop Uncle Sam 'advising' deClerk to decommision the nuclear capacity of the regional power.Lol, Amscray what is your take on this??

[FCP Bob 1,311]

* FYPThe only nation ever to voluntarily dismantle existing nuclear capability happened to be the one that was about to become a Black rule nation. The fact that the ANC had seemed peaceful with Mandela at the helm etc wasn't enough to stop Uncle Sam 'advising' deClerk to decommision the nuclear capacity of the regional power.Lol, Amscray what is your take on this??

I don't think race was the issue but rather the potential for things in South Africa at some point to get really ugly that would move the US to try and get those nukes out of the picture. I think there were about 6 or so as the most likely number.The US in general doesn't like nukes being out there and South Africa had a lot of potential be turn ugly. If you consider the possible outcomes South Africa even with all the problems that counrty has probably has done a lot better than a lot of people thought it would.I'm guessing a lot money in Swiss Banks with White South African military and political leaders having the codes helped to encourage the dismantling of those nukes and that was a very good use of money.

[ahosang 0]

I don't think race was the issue but rather the potential for things in South Africa at some point to get really ugly that would move the US to try and get those nukes out of the picture. I think there were about 6 or so as the most likely number.The US in general doesn't like nukes being out there and South Africa had a lot of potential be turn ugly. If you consider the possible outcomes South Africa even with all the problems that counrty has probably has done a lot better than a lot of people thought it would.I'm guessing a lot money in Swiss Banks with White South African military and political leaders having the codes helped to encourage the dismantling of those nukes and that was a very good use of money.

Cognitive dissonance for the win...India, Pakistan, Israel, and former USSR republics were certainly higher hotspots of 'things getting ugly'. In fact the whole historical narrative of those countries(in the 20th century i mean) would lead one to believe that any of those regions should be rid of nuclear weapons. Contrast that with South Africa: a regional powerhouse with no serious military antagonists, whose only flaw - racist Apartheid system - was now being fixed. But wait, um, that meant that the people who would probably take charge and have nuclear power would not be like the people in charge before. That is, they would not be White/Caucasian/European/whateveryouwanttocallit, but they were likely to be a different people, um, a ....... black people....And um, the people who voluntarily dismantled the capability(anticipating the new ruling demographic) were, um...., whiteConvince yourself otherwise if you must Bob, but I put it to you(simplistically i admit) that SA's nuclear self-curtailment was about Whites and Blacks...

[FCP Bob 1,311]

Cognitive dissonance for the win...India, Pakistan, Israel, and former USSR republics were certainly higher hotspots of 'things getting ugly'. In fact the whole historical narrative of those countries(in the 20th century i mean) would lead one to believe that any of those regions should be rid of nuclear weapons. Contrast that with South Africa: a regional powerhouse with no serious military antagonists, whose only flaw - racist Apartheid system - was now being fixed. But wait, um, that meant that the people who would probably take charge and have nuclear power would not be like the people in charge before. That is, they would not be White/Caucasian/European/whateveryouwanttocallit, but they were likely to be a different people, um, a ....... black people....And um, the people who voluntarily dismantled the capability(anticipating the new ruling demographic) were, um...., whiteConvince yourself otherwise if you must Bob, but I put it to you(simplistically i admit) that SA's nuclear self-curtailment was about Whites and Blacks...

I think making it a Black/White issue is far too simplistic.The ANC was viewed by a lot of people as a Terrorist Marxist organization with ties to International terrorism that couldn't be trusted. The reality was while publically the US was condemning the South African Apartheid regime they were supporting it as a bulwork against International Communism and using Israel to transfer military technology to South Africa. When that was no longer the case it made perfect sense from the American perspective to not let the nukes fall into the hands of the ANC and whatever governments would be in charge in South Africa in the future.Also, the US had the ability to get rid of the nukes since the Aparteid government also didn't want the nukes to go the ANC and there were only a handful of them so the job wasn't a huge one. You combine that with some large cash payments to South African officials and it wasn't a hard thing to do. The other areas such as India or Pakistan the US can't get rid of the nukes like they could in South Africa.

[ahosang 0]

I think making it a Black/White issue is far too simplistic.The ANC was viewed by a lot of people as a Terrorist Marxist organization with ties to International terrorism that couldn't be trusted. The reality was while publically the US was condemning the South African Apartheid regime they were supporting it as a bulwork against International Communism and using Israel to transfer military technology to South Africa. When that was no longer the case it made perfect sense from the American perspective to not let the nukes fall into the hands of the ANC and whatever governments would be in charge in South Africa in the future.Also, the US had the ability to get rid of the nukes since the Aparteid government also didn't want the nukes to go the ANC and there were only a handful of them so the job wasn't a huge one. You combine that with some large cash payments to South African officials and it wasn't a hard thing to do. The other areas such as India or Pakistan the US can't get rid of the nukes like they could in South Africa.

Sure i know all about the terrorist/communist nonsense. I take your point of view as an alternative reality. You focus on how the American angle might make sense in a non-racial security perspective. But from the perspective of South Africans, this willingness to disarm flies in the face of all previously known human tendencies. National security and the prestige and power that comes with being in the nuclear club means you don't pass it up, and a few payments to those in charge doesn't really cut it. Surely USA could pay those in charge of India and Pakistan to disarm as well??? No Bob, the whites of South Africa were even willing to disarm their own country because it wasn't going to be 'theirs' anymore... This is the reality of ethnic/racial cleavage...Anyway, i don't want to hijack the 2012 elections thread. Good luck all with the Reps vs. Dems battles!!

[El Guapo 8]

Isn't it common knowledge that Israel has nukes? I am pretty sure for the last 20 years that was being reported as one of the main reasons there has not been a full on Muslim assault on Israel. But I guess I could be wrong.

[hblask 1]

Isn't it common knowledge that Israel has nukes? I am pretty sure for the last 20 years that was being reported as one of the main reasons there has not been a full on Muslim assault on Israel. But I guess I could be wrong.

That's what I thought, but apparently it's not confirmed.

[FCP Bob 1,311]

Next up on the anybody but Romney stage for the GOP, NEWThttp://www.businessinsider.com/say-hello-t...-mentum-2011-11

[FCP Bob 1,311]

http://www.businessinsider.com/perry-debat...or-good-2011-11This had to mean that whatever slim chance Perry had before last night is over doesn't it ?

[strategy 4]

sure hope so. reading his bio, he sounds like a reasonable human being, but I cannot tolerate his political tactics.still haven't watched any of these debates. probably should? people say it's awful.

[hblask 1]

sure hope so. reading his bio, he sounds like a reasonable human being, but I cannot tolerate his political tactics.still haven't watched any of these debates. probably should? people say it's awful.

Yeah, watching the debates is incredibly painful, even for a political junkie like me. I'd rather just wait for the highlights the next day, although it would've been fun to watch Perry lose his mind last night live.

[Balloon guy 158]

Saw a Perry ad today on TV,Perry basically said: We tried a president who can read a teleprompter and give a good speech, it didn't work.Good ad.Still don't want him to win, but politically, it was a good ad.

[timwakefield 68]

Every President reads off teleprompters. Obama crushed McCain in the debates (without teleprompters).

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Saw a Perry ad today on TV,Perry basically said: We tried a president who can read a teleprompter and give a good speech, it didn't work.Good ad.Still don't want him to win, but politically, it was a good ad.

Sounds like a horrible, pointless, meaningless add aimed at people who have nothing but the most superficial understanding of what a President does.That's just my take, though.

[brvheart 1,747]

Every President reads off teleprompters. Obama crushed McCain in the debates (without teleprompters).

You are way too biased for your own good.

[Dread Aidan 8]

Sounds like a horrible, pointless, meaningless add aimed at people who have nothing but the most superficial understanding of what a President does.

So then you agree it's a good ad, right?

[FCP Bob 1,311]

President Newt ?CNN Poll: Gingrich soars, Cain dropsPosted byCNN Political UnitWashington (CNN) – A new national survey of Republicans indicates that it's basically all tied up between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich in the race for the GOP presidential nomination, with Gingrich on the rise and businessman Herman Cain falling due to the sexual harassment allegations he's been facing the past two weeks. According to a CNN/ORC International Poll released Monday, 24% of Republicans and independents who lean towards the GOP say Romney is their most likely choice for their party's presidential nominee with Gingrich at 22%. Romney's two-point advantage is well within the survey's sampling error.

[CaneBrain 95]

President Newt ?CNN Poll: Gingrich soars, Cain dropsPosted byCNN Political UnitWashington (CNN) – A new national survey of Republicans indicates that it's basically all tied up between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich in the race for the GOP presidential nomination, with Gingrich on the rise and businessman Herman Cain falling due to the sexual harassment allegations he's been facing the past two weeks. According to a CNN/ORC International Poll released Monday, 24% of Republicans and independents who lean towards the GOP say Romney is their most likely choice for their party's presidential nominee with Gingrich at 22%. Romney's two-point advantage is well within the survey's sampling error.

Gingrich is like the college football team who lost really early in the season and now keeps rising as all the other contenders "lose a game". It's going to be Romney; Perry was the guy who could have beat him but it turns out he can't debate.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Herman Cain: Super serious candidatehttp://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/video/?...d=1275195602001

[FCP Bob 1,311]

Herman Cain: Super serious candidatehttp://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/video/?...d=1275195602001

What do you expect. The closest thing to him being exposed to foreign policy was the Italian Sausage on the pizzas.

[FCP Bob 1,311]

Herman Cain: Super serious candidatehttp://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/video/?...d=1275195602001

AndrewNBCNewsAndrew RaffertyWhen I asked Cain if today's Libya gaffe builds on idea he doesn't have in depth knowledge of foreign policy, he simply said, "999"

[hblask 1]

President Newt ?CNN Poll: Gingrich soars, Cain dropsPosted byCNN Political UnitWashington (CNN) – A new national survey of Republicans indicates that it's basically all tied up between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich in the race for the GOP presidential nomination, with Gingrich on the rise and businessman Herman Cain falling due to the sexual harassment allegations he's been facing the past two weeks. According to a CNN/ORC International Poll released Monday, 24% of Republicans and independents who lean towards the GOP say Romney is their most likely choice for their party's presidential nominee with Gingrich at 22%. Romney's two-point advantage is well within the survey's sampling error.

I could've voted for the Gingrich that briefly existed during the first Contract For America, but that guy disappeared about 10 minutes after he got power, and it's been downhill since.There's going to be a big surprise in this race.

[Balloon guy 158]

What do you expect. The closest thing to him being exposed to foreign policy was the Italian Sausage on the pizzas.

Yea, everyone else has tons of foreign policy experience before they serve in federal office....