A Mosque On The Twin Towers Site?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I am at a lost, how is his idea that today's 'good teachers' of Islam could be replaced with a bad one a stretch?

Nah, this sounds like something that could turn into a real discussion. I'm sticking with the Purple Monkey Dishwasher for now.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acRnigpauiE

[Balloon guy 158]

Nah, this sounds like something that could turn into a real discussion. I'm sticking with the Purple Monkey Dishwasher for now.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acRnigpauiE

A simpsons. I haven't watched them yet.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

A simpsons. I haven't watched them yet.

*passes out**wakes up*Look at the related videos on the right, third one down (I hope they're the same for everyone).

[Balloon guy 158]

*passes out**wakes up*Look at the related videos on the right, third one down (I hope they're the same for everyone).

Shamwow guy fights hooker?That is funny, now I get your name kind of.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Many Americans, let's say the vast majority do not agree with many of the tenets of Islam regarding their treatment of women and children, propensity for strict repurcussions for those that denigrate their faith, and how it's fundementalist factions are very extreme and most often are violent and tyrannical. On these points we can all agree. In fact, moderate muslims would agree for the most part.Moderate muslims want nothing more than what we want, to live in a peaceful family, city and society. They want to work and support their families. They want the freedom to follow their faith in God and live in a free society. There are vasts differences amongst the billion people that follow Islam but clearly the overwhelming majority are simple people like you and me that hold the same morals. People ask why they don't speak out against these extreme factions but they do. They do more actually. They are at war in Iraq and Afhganistan fighting the Taliban and Al Queda right now! Fighting for the same thing that many who want a decent life free of oppresion.So how do we go about change and understanding to meld the cultures and understanding? I would suggest that the political ploy currently being used by Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich by making it an issue in their quest for the presidency isn't the correct way. By pandering to the fear, mistrust and miss-understanding the vast majority of Americans have toward Islam and treating it as an "American value" issue versus a legal and moral one.First since they have been throwing the term, "value" around in every speech I want to address what specifically values are. They are not morals. I might value a BMW over a Chevy. I might value a Fried Chicken over baked fish and vegetables as my nightly dinner. I might value being single or being married. I might value the welfare of all over the welfare of my family or vice versa. Because Americans value something only means it's important to them, not that it is necessarily right. Advertisers know this all to well. Every commercial we see our "market has been targeted". Grape Nuts? Squirrels in the outdoors. Health conscience people love the outdoors. Pepsi? They shoved a can in Michael Jackson's hand despite the fact he hated the stuff. Why? People loved Michael Jackson and want to be like him, (or did). This is the same reason advertisers use sports figures holding and wearing everything imaginable. Mom, apple pie and Chevrolet. (Family values) Gen X, Baby boomers, and all the markets each have their own specific values. Attack the value with the fear of not having it and presto, people want it more!So Newt and Sarah have been doing nothing more by bringing this issue up (tweeting, facebook, speeches etc.) than to attack your "values". They attempt to link Islam with Al Queda. They attack your fears. They have attacked this mosque in every imaginable way possible to the Christian right followed with the implied threat, (no matter how ridiculous it is) that this mosque creates a threat to their future lifestyle, which is simply not true. They are nothing more than junk bond salesman with an agenda.Why don't they address the muslim issue directly if they think they are all terrorists? Why don't they say that they would declare war on Islam if elected? Um, that's different. They only want to fear monger, not deal with an issue. They want to be elected, not reasonable.My hope for the future would be to see Christians and Muslims living side by side and learning to accept the cultural differences and possibly even respect each other. We all value the core "morals" of this country, which is our freedoms and the prosperity that freedom allows. So how do we get there? Throughout history America has been at war with many countries and cultures that we now call our allies. The British, French, Japanese, Mexicans were once our enemy . We have seen many cultures from across the world meld together here. Sports was a great avenue to reduce racism. People with a common goal work together regardless of ethnicity. The famous saying, time heels all wounds is true, but mostly because the future generations aren't bound by the previous. So, it's with our children breaking the bonds of what they were "brought up to believe" that future generations hope lies. So if I was a moderate muslim and wanted to share my culture what better way than including in my mosque a cultural diversity center for people of all religons to come share, learn and understand each other? I could state it publicly so that everyone understood my motives. I could state and write down the goals and plans of this center. I could locate it in a place that needs a mosque, yet would stand in defiance of the terrorist portion of Islam that so many denounce and despise. Wouldn't that be great?!Why are so many fighting it? We should be supporting them! If this center opens I would gladly take my grandchildren there to see and spend time with other children from so many different cultures. To see plays, enjoy music, learn differing cultures and see that people are all the same underneath. I would teach them what "international" really means.Would you?

[Roll the Bones 74]

'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts First Posted: 08-17-10 02:47 PM | Updated: 08-17-10 04:24 PM In March 2003, federal officials were being criticized for disrespecting the rights of Arab-Americans in their efforts to crack down on domestic security threats in the post-9/11 environment. Hoping to calm the growing tempers, FBI officials in New York hosted a forum on ways to deal with Muslim and Arab-Americans without exacerbating social tensions. The bureau wanted to provide agents with "a clear picture," said Kevin Donovan, director of the FBI's New York office.Brought in to speak that morning -- at the office building located just blocks from Ground Zero -- was one of the city's most respected Muslim voices: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. The imam offered what was for him a familiar sermon to those in attendance. "Islamic extremism for the majority of Muslims is an oxymoron," he said. "It is a fundamental contradiction in terms." It was, by contemporaneous news accounts, a successful lecture. Flash forward six-and-a-half years, and Feisal Abdul Rauf occupies a far different place in the political consciousness. The imam behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic cultural center near those same FBI offices has been called "a radical Muslim," a "militant Islamist" and, simply, the "enemy" by conservative critics. His Cordoba House project, meanwhile, has been framed as a conduit for Hamas to funnel money to domestic terrorist operations. For those who actually know or have worked with the imam, the descriptions are frighteningly -- indeed, depressingly -- unhinged from reality. The Feisal Abdul Rauf they know, spent the past decade fighting against the very same cultural divisiveness and religious-based paranoia that currently surrounds him."Imam Feisal has participated at the Aspen Institute in Muslim-Christian-Jewish working groups looking at ways to promote greater religious tolerance," Walter Isaacson, head of The Aspen Institute told the Huffington Post. "He has consistently denounced radical Islam and terrorism, and promoted a moderate and tolerant Islam. Some of this work was done under the auspices of his own group, the Cordoba Initiative. I liked his book, and I participated in some of the meetings in 2004 or so. This is why I find it a shame that his good work is being undermined by this inflamed dispute. He is the type of leader we should be celebrating in America, not undermining."A longtime Muslim presence in New York City, Feisal Abdul Rauf has been a participant in the geopolitical debate about Islamic-Western relations well before 9/11. In 1997, he founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement to promote a more positive integration of Muslims into American society. His efforts and profile rose dramatically after the attacks when, in need of a calm voice to explain why greater Islam was not a force bent on terrorism, he became a go-to quote for journalists on the beat. "We have to be very much more vocal about protecting human rights and planting the seeds of democratic regimes throughout the Arab and Muslim world," he told Katie Couric, then with NBC, during an interview in October 2001.Along the way, he rubbed elbows with or was embraced by a host of mainstream political figures, including several in the Republican Party. John Bennett, the man who preceded Isaacson as president of the Aspen Institute, was impressed enough by the imam's message that he became a co-founder of his Cordoba Initiative, which seeks to promote cross-cultural engagement through a variety of initiatives including, most recently, the center in downtown Manhattan. In November 2004, Feisal Abdul Rauf participated in a lengthy discussion on religion and government with, among others, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. In May 2006, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright placed the imam among a host of luminaries who inspired her book, "The Mighty and the Almighty." As the New York Times reported at the time: She mentioned Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, the two Democratic presidents in whose administrations she served; King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and King Abdullah II of Jordan; Vaclav Havel and Tony Blair. She organized discussions with Senator Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, a conservative Catholic. ''The epitome of this,'' she said, was ''a totally fascinating, interesting discussion'' with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, a New York Sufi leader and author; Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism; and Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention.Albright eventually collaborated with Feisal Abdul Rauf and others on more substantive political projects. In September 2008, the two, along with a number of other foreign policy heavyweights (including Richard Armitage and Dennis Ross) signed a report claiming that the war on terror had been inadequate in actually improving U.S. security. No less a figure than Senator Richard Lugar (R-Ind.), the ranking minority member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, embraced the findings."The Project's report offers a thoughtful analysis of the current state of America's relations with the Muslim world and constructive recommendations on how we can approach this pressing concern in a bipartisan framework," said the senator.Not that the imam has been without controversy. The most famous quote circulated by critics came when he talked to the Australian press in March 2004. "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians," he said. "But it was Christians in World War II who bombed innocent civilians in Dresden and dropped the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."Then there is the interview he gave to CBS's "60 Minutes" shortly after the 9/11 attacks occurred. "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened," he said by way of explaining the attacks. "But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."More often than not, he's pushed his audience to grapple with uncomfortable analogies in his efforts to contextualize Islamic radicalism, such as when he argued that the Ku Klux Klan was, likewise, drawn from a form of extreme religiosity. Those statements, in the end, were not enough to convince the Bush administration that he was a militant. Feisal Abdul Rauf was dispatched on speaking tours by the past State Department on multiple occasions to help promote tolerance and religious diversity in the Arab and Muslim world. In 2007, he went to Morocco, the UAE, Qatar and Egypt on such missions, a State Department official confirmed to the Huffington Post. In February 2006, meanwhile, he took part in a U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar with Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes, a close adviser to President Bush. Months later, Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote favorably about his meeting with Hughes, noting that he wanted to further the discussion with other members of the administration.------------------Well, now we know where all this dirty money to fund the project came from. Apparently people like BG who support Republicans are with their donations to the Aspen institute. hahahahahaAnd really, out of all the thousands of quotes do Sarah and Newt only big the ones that can be miscontrued to suit there needs. Face it, you've

[Jeepster80125 0]

“Hallowed Ground”A few photos of stuff the same distance from the World Trade Center as the “Ground Zero Mosque”:

[dapokerbum 0]

“Hallowed Ground”A few photos of stuff the same distance from the World Trade Center as the “Ground Zero Mosque”:

Nothing says america like strip clubs and fat people.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Ground Zero Mosque Opponents Have a Lot of Work to Do If we take Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Newt Gingrich at their word, their objection to the proposed community center two blocks north of Ground Zero is that the entire area is hallowed ground, and a Muslim facility so close to the site is an insult to the victims and heroes of September 11.Of course this is entirely about a swath of 9/11 fetishists, mostly Christians, ginning up anti-Muslim fear and demagoguery to score political points. It's a cheap and obvious exploitation of the widespread American prejudice that anyone who happens to be a Muslim is equally as guilty and offensive as the terrorists who hijacked and crashed two airplanes into the World Trade Center towers. It must be an election year because Republicans are once again rolling out September 11 as a wedge issue. You know, because they care about honoring the fallen. When it helps them politically.If Beck, Limbaugh, Palin and Gingrich, along with the entire population of far-right AM talk radio, really cared about hallowed ground and historical preservation, they wouldn't be limiting their crusade to the Cordoba House.As many of us have heard, there's a strip club two blocks away. I'm not sure how lap dances are less offensive than a religious community center. In fact, there are quite a few places in lower Manhattan within short walking distance of Ground Zero that would have to be eliminated as part of these stringent guidelines dictating how sacred ground ought to be respected. Via Twitter, Sarah Palin urged President Obama to weigh in on the Cordoba issue. Well, I urge Sarah Palin to weigh in on the strip club "at Ground Zero." We're waiting, Sarah. Will you campaign against the strip club? How about the gun shows that happen at Cox Pavilion, not far from the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the shinto shrines a mile or two from Pearl Harbor?Actually, come to think of it, I want all of the usual suspects -- Beck, Palin, Gingrich and the rest -- to weigh in on a variety of actual trespasses upon hallowed ground.Let's begin with the actual ground. The Ground Zero. Literally, the ground. The One World Trade Center (aka. Freedom Tower) website notes the following feature:The below-grade concourses will include approximately 55,000 square feet of retail space and connect to an extensive transportation and retail network...So there's going to be a shopping mall literally in the ground of Ground Zero. "Below-grade" means "in the ground." The Ground. In other words, Sarah Palin and her entire gaggle of various babies and ghost writers can visit Ground Zero and honor the heroes and victims of 9/11 while trying on tankinis at Juicy Couture (or whatever clothing stores end up there) constructed within the actual ground of Ground Zero. This bears repeating: unlike Park 51's Cordoba House, which is blocks away, there's going to be a 55,000 square foot mall under the same ground where people fell to their deaths on that terrible day. Ground that's mixed with the remains of the dead. A mall.And it wouldn't be the first time we've besmirched and destroyed the hallowed ground where American heroes have died.I have yet to see Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin contribute their considerable wealth and celebrity to the cause of preserving the Wilderness and Chancellorsville battlefields in Virginia where Washington, D.C.'s suburban sprawl is rapidly consuming the land where thousands of Americans were killed during the American Civil War. When will these self-proclaimed patriots stand against the latest eyesore -- a Walmart Super Store that's likely to be built on the Wilderness battlefield?Newt Gingrich, for his part, has written several books about the Civil War, one of which fantasizes about a Confederate victory at Gettysburg. Actually, I once stood several feet away from Gingrich as he held a book signing at a Gettysburg gift shop located a block or two from a McDonald's on Steinwehr Avenue -- a McDonald's that sits on the actual battlefield, specifically the location of the infamous Pickett's Charge on the third day of battle. (The gift shop is also technically on the battlefield.)The McDonald's is next to a Friendly's restaurant and across from a hotel with a swimming pool where tourists can honor the fallen while wearing arm floaties and smacking each other with foam noodles. There's a restaurant called General Pickett's Buffet on the battlefield. There used to be a Stuckey's Restaurant literally in the Peach Orchard. There's a 7-11 convenience store where U.S. cavalry commander General John Buford, arguably the hero of Gettysburg, was headquartered on the first day.Sarah? Beck?On the site of some of the most bloody fighting, East Cemetery Hill, there's a towering Holiday Inn, a Rita's Italian Ice, a cigar store, a Hall of Presidents wax museum, another gift shop and another convenience store. Oh and there's a hilarious outhouse attraction complete with an animatronic townie relieving himself and yelling at tourists to stop "letting all the flies in." Hilarious. West of the town, on the site of one of the Civil War's largest field hospitals, known at the time as Camp Letterman, there's a Walmart and a trailer park. South of town, behind Power's Hill where my great-great grandfather's 155th Pennsylvania volunteer regiment bivouacked, you can walk the hallowed ground while playing a round of miniature golf at Mulligan McDuffer's Putt-Putt.Sure, a soulless free market conservative might shrug off these monuments to corporate consumerism as being the wheels of commerce and capitalism rolling on. Even if that means rolling over the ground where 23,040 United States soldiers were killed or wounded (the Confederates suffered around 20-25,000 casualties at Gettysburg). For the federal Army of the Potomac, that was a 27 percent casualty rate. Unimaginable by today's standards.And that leads us to an aspect of this particular expanse of hallowed ground that most directly relates to the fracas over the Cordoba House.To review: the Cordoba House will be two blocks away from the actual WTC site. It's being installed by American citizens, the chief of whom, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an American citizen who has worked with the Bush administration on Muslim outreach. These are peaceful Muslims who had absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist attacks nearby. The opponents of the inaccurately dubbed "Ground Zero Mosque" suggest it's the work of an enemy religion and offensive to the memory of those who died.But at Gettysburg, just south of the town and west of the Emmitsburg Road near the tree-line from which 12-15,000 Confederate soldiers emerged on the third day of battle to attack the United States army on Cemetery Ridge, stands a tall marble and bronze statue of General Robert E. Lee, commanding general of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia. It's not the only Confederate monument on the actual battlefield, but it's certainly the most striking and the most famous. At the peak of the obelisk is Lee mounted atop his horse, Traveler, staring out at the battlefield. Just below him are heroic bronze representations of random Virginia Confederates.This general committed treason against the United States. By definition, he was a traitor who commanded a rebel army against the America and inflicted unprecedented casualties. Specifically, General Lee's invasion of the north and advance into Gettysburg was responsible for the aforementioned 23,040 United States military casualties, and, of those 23,040 casualties, 3,155 were killed on that Pennsylvania -- that American -- ground.Yet there's a statue at Gettysburg honoring the fiercest enemy of the United States at that time. Had Lee been victorious, the United States as we know it today would not exist. But he gets a statue on Pennsylvania soil -- a statue which, by the way, stands at the exact same height as the statue to U.S. General George Gordon Meade, the commander of the Army of the Potomac (and a Pennsylvanian).I can't even imagine the September 11 equivalent of such a memorial to an enemy of the United States. Now, just to be clear, I'm not advocating one way or another about the Confederate battlefield monuments at Gettysburg (the retail shops, on the other hand, are a blight). I'm merely drawing a parallel here. If Newt and Sarah and Glenn were truly so driven to maintain the sacred purity of American "hallowed ground," they definitely have a lot of work to do. And they can start by campaigning for the removal of the Lee statue of Gettysburg. You know, for the sake of consistency. Let's see how popular that'll be, especially with their southern fanbase.Naturally they won't bother because the mosque issue isn't really as much about the ground as it is about stoking and capitalizing on religious intolerance. When you eliminate the inconsistencies, contradictions and oversights, all that's left is political fear-mongering, demagoguery and a disturbing disregard for the free exercise clause. If it was truly about hallowed ground, we'd hear about all of those other American sites.Ultimately, though, I'm expecting too much from the modern conservative movement, considering how it's built entirely upon obvious contradictions, unserious chicanery and an escalating campaign of intolerance.

[vbnautilus 48]

Many Americans, let's say the vast majority do not agree with many of the tenets of Islam regarding their treatment of women and children, propensity for strict repurcussions for those that denigrate their faith, and how it's fundementalist factions are very extreme and most often are violent and tyrannical. On these points we can all agree. In fact, moderate muslims would agree for the most part.

I don't know who wrote this, but if you are allowed to just make things up like this without evidence, then you can make almost any point you want.

My hope for the future would be to see Christians and Muslims living side by side and learning to accept the cultural differences and possibly even respect each other.

This reminds me of my dream of the Nazis and Jews living together in harmony, respecting each other, hugging, and baking each other cookies.

Why are so many fighting it? We should be supporting them! If this center opens I would gladly take my grandchildren there to see and spend time with other children from so many different cultures. To see plays, enjoy music, learn differing cultures and see that people are all the same underneath. I would teach them what "international" really means.

This is pretty funny. Also, which nations make this organization international? I thought they were Americans. And which cultures besides muslim will be represented there for your grandkids?

[hank213 1,823]

hey BIGD, i just booked my hotel room for the nebraska - texas game on the 16th. staying near the stadium. JUST THOUGHT YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW.

Let's make plans so I can not show up, ok?

What's the bar in downtown Lincoln that has like a thousand different martinis?

Dunno which you mean, there are a couple martini bars in down town, Lincoln being about 10 years behind the rest of the country and all.

Marz downtown on O street or Starlight Lounge in the haymarket would be my guesses.

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't know who wrote this, but if you are allowed to just make things up like this without evidence, then you can make almost any point you want.

Like darwin did

This reminds me of my dream of the Nazis and Jews living together in harmony, respecting each other, hugging, and baking each other cookies.

I know the mossad would like to meet more nazis

This is pretty funny. Also, which nations make this organization international? I thought they were Americans. And which cultures besides muslim will be represented there for your grandkids?

Well there is wahhabi classes will be on days that end in YThe weekends will be devoted to how to open up real estate that doesn't want to sell.We can expect special guest speakers to talk about how to get families of people you've killed to desire to work together by ignoring their pleas to respect their feelings.Probably be a class on "Why Shariah law saves on legal costs"And if nothing else we can assume that they will be like other mosques in America:

Inside the Green Lane mosque in Birmingham, a preacher is recorded saying: 'Allah has created the woman deficient.' A satellite broadcast from the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh, beamed into the Green Lane mosque suggests that Muslim children should be hit if they don't pray: 'When he is seven, tell him to go and pray, and start hitting them when they are 10.' Another preacher is heard saying that if a girl 'doesn't wear hijab, we hit her'.Another preacher says: 'The time is fast approaching where the tables are going to turn and the Muslims are going to be in the position of being uppermost in strength and, when that happens, people won't get killed - unjustly.' Another speaker says Muslims cannot accept the rule of non-Muslims. 'You cannot accept the rule of the kaffir [a derogatory term for non-Muslims],' a preacher, Dr Ijaz Mian, tells a meeting held within the mosque in Britian. 'We have to rule ourselves and we have to rule the others.'A recent public opinion poll reported that 40 percent of Muslims youths in the UK wanted to live under Islamic law, this is indicative of a growing state of malaise that threats to destroy Britain's society and core values. "Given their continuous embrace and manifest endorsement of terror activities, this represents not only a political threat but a physical threat which demonstrates their ruthlessness in their commitment to do everything they can to take over our society and to destroy our faith and freedom" said Baroness Caroline Cox said in an address at the House of Lords.

But hopefully this building designed to "help bring together muslims and non-muslims" will first turn their sights on getting those Shii and Sunni who are killing each other in most every place they both live, to work things out.

[brvheart 1,752]

If we take Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Newt Gingrich at their word, their objection to the proposed community center two blocks north of Ground Zero is that the entire area is hallowed ground

I had to stop reading this obviously biased article right here.Don't these "journalists" realize they are doing the exact same thing that they are making fun of Fox News about? They aren't that un-self-aware... right? The blatant hypocrisy is on purpose, hoping that only idiots are reading it... correct?I haven't heard a word about this issue from Newt, Sarah or Beck. In fact, I haven't heard any of them say anything since before the election. I heard about this from NEW YORK UNION MEMBERS AND JEWS! I HATE this childish bullshit crap. There is no hope of ever fixing this political climate in my lifetime.

[vbnautilus 48]

In fact, I haven't heard any of them say anything since before the election.

I know, right? Not one of these three has spoken a word in 10 months.

[brvheart 1,752]

I know, right? Not one of these three has spoken a word in 10 months.

Not one that has reached my ears.

[Balloon guy 158]

Not one that has reached my ears.

Just in case this didn't reach your ears either:

Obama Shoots Himself in Both FeetJohn Hinderaker · Aug. 14 at 3:31pmLast night, President Obama delivered a full-throated defense of the Ground Zero mosque project at a White House Iftar dinner. Conservatives and liberals alike interpreted Obama's comments not just as a defense of the legal right to build Cordoba House, but as an enthusiastic endorsement of the project.Some on the left, like Greg Sargent of the Washington Post, hailed Obama's pro-mosque remarks as "one of the finest moments of Obama's presidency." Sargent wrote that Obama's "core supporters" are delighted that he finally showed some "spine."Oops--not so fast! Abashed by complaints from his fellow Democrats, Obama backtracked earlier today and issued a "clarification": President Barack Obama on Saturday sought to defuse the controversy over his remarks on plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero, insisting that he wasn't endorsing the specific project but making a general plea for religious tolerance toward all. ... "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there," Obama continued. "I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."So much for presidential backbone. What is noteworthy about this incident is how characteristic it is of Barack Obama. He delivered not one self-inflicted wound, but two. First, he waded needlessly into a controversy that shouldn't have been his concern. The mosque, as he himself has noted, is a local, not federal, matter. By advocating for the project--not just its legality, but its appropriateness--he took a distinctly unpopular position. Not only that, he nationalized the issue, increasing the likelihood that swing-district Democrats will be expected to take a position. Then, not content with that damage, he almost immediately succumbed to pressure and reversed course, disappointing the loyalists who were briefly cheered by his willingness to side unequivocally with the unpopular Left.Obama's supporters like to see this sort of vacillation as Hamlet-like, but that gives Obama too much credit. Hamlet was larger than life, while this sort of episode makes Obama appear ever-smaller.

[brvheart 1,752]

Who is John Hinderacker?a republican? What paper/blog does he write for?

[Roll the Bones 74]

First article is from Slate, the other was the main headline for Huffington Post yesterday.The point was that the Imam has been respected by our conservative administration for over a decade for his work in counter-terrorism. Instead of a medal he gets this grief.Also, the Cordoba foundation, named after a Spanish city where muslims, jews and christians worked and lived together, was funded by a conservative Republican ex-senator because of his respect for the Imam and the idea.Brv- the issue died until Newt and Sarah Palin started using it as a campaign platform and have been tweeting, commenting in speeches and everything else to attract attention for the presidential bids. They purposefully ignored facts and outright lied everyone to attack American values with fear by linking all muslims to Al Queda. It brought others like Bloomberg and Obama out to defend the site and the real American issue which is freedom of religon.They have preaching religous intolerance which I would think you would be against.

[Roll the Bones 74]

I think this sums it up nicely.Arab Columnist: "The Mosque Is Not an Issue for Muslims" While America loses its mind over the "Ground Zero Mosque," which is neither a mosque nor at Ground Zero, many foreign observers are simply watching in wonderment. In a column arguing against the construction of the mosque, Arab columnist Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid says, "the mosque is not an issue for Muslims, and they have not heard of it until the shouting became loud between the supporters and the objectors, which is mostly an argument between non-Muslim US citizens!" The shouting is loud indeed. Conservatives want to investigate the moderate imam behind the project; Nancy Pelosi wants to investigate the people who want to investigate. Everyone wants to hear from the former president. W. has no comment, but Rand Paul does. Peter Beinart believes Americans have disgraced themselves, and Maureen Dowd thinks President Obama has debased himself (which is probably the only thing she'll ever have in common with Sarah Palin). Rahm Emanuel has spent days doing damage control with congressional Dems, and Pat Buchanan wants Newt Gingrich to control himself. Finally, William Kristol cut through the cacophony with a death sentence: "This will be over soon. There will be no 13-story mosque near Ground Zero."

[Balloon guy 158]

First article is from Slate, the other was the main headline for Huffington Post yesterday.The point was that the Imam has been respected by our conservative administration for over a decade for his work in counter-terrorism. Instead of a medal he gets this grief.Also, the Cordoba foundation, named after a Spanish city where muslims, jews and christians worked and lived together, was funded by a conservative Republican ex-senator because of his respect for the Imam and the idea.Brv- the issue died until Newt and Sarah Palin started using it as a campaign platform and have been tweeting, commenting in speeches and everything else to attract attention for the presidential bids. They purposefully ignored facts and outright lied everyone to attack American values with fear by linking all muslims to Al Queda. It brought others like Bloomberg and Obama out to defend the site and the real American issue which is freedom of religon.They have preaching religous intolerance which I would think you would be against.

Imman: Okay everyone, I am glad you are here today. We are going to discuss where we will build our new $100 million facility in New York.Muslims 1: Where did we get that much money?Imman: Not important, in fact for asking that you are a racist. Now what are our choices?Muslims 2: There's a vacant lot near a large population of muslims who live in Manhattan that we can get fairly cheap.Muslim 3: There's also a place on the east side, very attractive democraphics.Muslim 4: Then there's the building destroyed by one of the planes that crashed into the towers on 9-11Imman: Ow, perfect. Let's get that one.Muslim 2: But there aren't enough muslims who live close enough to support the place financially.Imman: INFIDEL, that doesn't matter because our funding is taken care of.Muslim 3: But the location is going to cause some people to be upset.Imman: INFIDELS AND JEWS. We don't care about their feelings. We will build where ever we want and they can kiss our feet.Muslim 4: But the PR problems will be huge. What will say when they ask why are we building a mosque in a building that was destroyed by the airplanes that killed so many people?Imman: We will tell them that we are building it to promote interfaith relationships.Muslims all: Who will believe that load of garbage?Imman: ....the Democrats.Muslims all: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Balloon guy 158]

I think this sums it up nicely.Arab Columnist: "The Mosque Is Not an Issue for Muslims" While America loses its mind over the "Ground Zero Mosque," which is neither a mosque nor at Ground Zero, many foreign observers are simply watching in wonderment. In a column arguing against the construction of the mosque, Arab columnist Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid says, "the mosque is not an issue for Muslims, and they have not heard of it until the shouting became loud between the supporters and the objectors, which is mostly an argument between non-Muslim US citizens!" The shouting is loud indeed. Conservatives want to investigate the moderate imam behind the project; Nancy Pelosi wants to investigate the people who want to investigate. Everyone wants to hear from the former president. W. has no comment, but Rand Paul does. Peter Beinart believes Americans have disgraced themselves, and Maureen Dowd thinks President Obama has debased himself (which is probably the only thing she'll ever have in common with Sarah Palin). Rahm Emanuel has spent days doing damage control with congressional Dems, and Pat Buchanan wants Newt Gingrich to control himself. Finally, William Kristol cut through the cacophony with a death sentence: "This will be over soon. There will be no 13-story mosque near Ground Zero."

Ah, the foreign observers are not approving of our countries actions?Well let's just have an election and elect another idiot that they approve of and watch him destroy this country all over again.And Nancy Pelosi didn't ask to investigate the ones who want to investigate where the $100 million came from. ( That small amount of money is nothing to any religious organization ) She wants to investigate anyone who opposes the mosque. i.e. 83% of American

[Roll the Bones 74]

Ah, the foreign observers are not approving of our countries actions?Well let's just have an election and elect another idiot that they approve of and watch him destroy this country all over again.And Nancy Pelosi didn't ask to investigate the ones who want to investigate where the $100 million came from. ( That small amount of money is nothing to any religious organization ) She wants to investigate anyone who opposes the mosque. i.e. 83% of American

Fine. Ask your church to open their books up and name who their donations come from and how much. You realize that no churches will do that but Newt and Sarah bring it up to imply that their are terrorists funding it which is complete and utter bullshit. They are simply playing on the anti-muslim resentment of Americans and ignoring any facts about the issue purposefully. I think it's a fair question to ask who is funding them to keep spouting this bullshit.

[strategy 4]

Fine. Ask your church to open their books up and name who their donations come from and how much. You realize that no churches will do that but Newt and Sarah bring it up to imply that their are terrorists funding it which is complete and utter bullshit. They are simply playing on the anti-muslim resentment of Americans and ignoring any facts about the issue purposefully. I think it's a fair question to ask who is funding them to keep spouting this bullshit.

score one for uncle rando

[Balloon guy 158]

Fine. Ask your church to open their books up and name who their donations come from and how much. You realize that no churches will do that but Newt and Sarah bring it up to imply that their are terrorists funding it which is complete and utter bullshit. They are simply playing on the anti-muslim resentment of Americans and ignoring any facts about the issue purposefully. I think it's a fair question to ask who is funding them to keep spouting this baloney.

Actually many churches I know of in the Protestant faith are member of the ECFA, The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.One of the requirements is to have your books 100% open to anyone who asks to see them. So your point is completely lost, because reality is that US tax laws aside, most churches have nothing to hide and are very open with their books.And other than maybe the Catholic church, I don't know of any denomination that could pony up 100 million to build one building in an area that doesn't have near enough un-reached muslims. There are 30 churches on Manhattan, so they are either going to steal membership, or they are going to never be self supporting.I don't know of any churches trying to be built near sensitive sites that would require someone to want to question their financial backings though, so I don't know what your point is.I do love that this issue has turned you into a religion supporter though.

[Balloon guy 158]

score one for uncle roll the bonos

Have some respect for his wishes youngster