BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 No history with villain. Looked up his OPR stats and saw he had 69k in prizes, 27k in profit for a 65% ROI.Not that all that matters much, but it shows he's probably a competent player. Hand in question:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO (t3170)Button (t1490)SB (t1480)BB (t1360)UTG (t1500)UTG+1 (t1500)Hero (MP1) (t1500)MP2 (t1500)Hero's M: 50.00Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q , Q :heart:UTG calls t20, UTG+1 bets t120, Hero raises to t360, 4 folds, BB calls t340, 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t1500 (All-In), Hero ??????What's your play and why? Link to post Share on other sites
MaxStPolish 4 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Prolly fold only because of how early it is in the tourney. I just don't think a 'smart' player would see any fold equity in a 4BB this early in a 4.40. Moreover, I don't think he wants to go blind preflop with thin to no FE with JJ/AK or less. I would think in a 4.40, he'd even take a flop with KK to make sure he doesn't get binked, and if so, gets out with a lot of life left. So it's almost certain he is jamming the pot AA assuming he won't be able to shake either of you regardless, since you are 20-25% committed, and in a 4.40.I know we need to assign a range. But, in this case it's AA to AA, suits pending. Anything else, save for possibly KK would just be a shock to me. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think he can easily be value shipping JJ/AK on the basis that we're probably some random 4.40 drooler and the BB overcalled. Call. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Prolly fold only because of how early it is in the tourney. I just don't think a 'smart' player would see any fold equity in a 4BB this early in a 4.40. Moreover, I don't think he wants to go blind preflop with thin to no FE with JJ/AK or less. I would think in a 4.40, he'd even take a flop with KK to make sure he doesn't get binked, and if so, gets out with a lot of life left. So it's almost certain he is jamming the pot AA assuming he won't be able to shake either of you regardless, since you are 20-25% committed, and in a 4.40.I know we need to assign a range. But, in this case it's AA to AA, suits pending. Anything else, save for possibly KK would just be a shock to me.LOL at this. Beaver, did you look up his OPR during the hand or after. Against an unknown I instacall and giggle when he tables ATo. Why is a player with 27k in profit playing a $4.40 anyway...? He maybe have started fresh, or just messing around. I think I call and expect to see TT+, AQo+.If you bust early in a $4.40 you can easily join another. However, doubling up early makes it MUCH easier to go deep. I call. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 LOL at this. Beaver, did you look up his OPR during the hand or after. Against an unknown I instacall and giggle when he tables ATo. Why is a player with 27k in profit playing a $4.40 anyway...? He maybe have started fresh, or just messing around. I think I call and expect to see TT+, AQo+.If you bust early in a $4.40 you can easily join another. However, doubling up early makes it MUCH easier to go deep. I call.I looked it up during the hand. It IS a $4.40.... so obviously the players are usually terrible. This early in a $4.40, I usually do see a lot of bat-shit crazy plays that would lead me to play QQ+, AK like the nuts pre-flop.FTR, any other tourney, I would expect his 4b shove to be only KK, AA or AK. Certain players in $4.40's will have the same range as this (such as myself), but the majority would shove here w/ a much wider range. Link to post Share on other sites
MaxStPolish 4 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 LOL at this. Beaver, did you look up his OPR during the hand or after. Against an unknown I instacall and giggle when he tables ATo. Why is a player with 27k in profit playing a $4.40 anyway...? He maybe have started fresh, or just messing around. I think I call and expect to see TT+, AQo+.If you bust early in a $4.40 you can easily join another. However, doubling up early makes it MUCH easier to go deep. I call.LOL at this.My answer is based on the fact that our villain appears to be a very good thinking player AND under the assumption that we don't snap call because "it's only a tournament, you can easily join another". Hence I give a thinking response, assuming that you are trying to do yoru best in this tourney, like any other. I do call this 99% of the time....but based on the quick recon OP makes of the villian, you'd be daft to not visualize a more realistic 4 bet range I'd think. I do agree that "it's just a 4.40", etc. etc. etc. but still. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 LOL at this.My answer is based on the fact that our villain appears to be a very good thinking player AND under the assumption that we don't snap call because "it's only a tournament, you can easily join another". Hence I give a thinking response, assuming that you are trying to do yoru best in this tourney, like any other. I do call this 99% of the time....but based on the quick recon OP makes of the villian, you'd be daft to not visualize a more realistic 4 bet range I'd think. I do agree that "it's just a 4.40", etc. etc. etc. but still.Additionally, I personally flat here in a 4.40 with KK to see if an A hits the flop, as it's near 100% in the 2nd hand of a 4.40 that one of these two villains, if not both, are carrying an ace. And it's 100% that if they catch their ace on the flop, they aren't folding. It's +EV.You lose so much value flatting with KK, AINEC. So many people in $4.40s will stack of with any PP, any A, even hands like KQ, KJ, and QJ. Letting them see, and most likely, a flop just cost you 1200+ chips.Playing scared won't win you a $4.40, ever. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 You lose so much value flatting with KK, AINEC. So many people in $4.40s will stack of with any PP, any A, even hands like KQ, KJ, and QJ. Letting them see, and most likely, a flop just cost you 1200+ chips.Playing scared won't win you a $4.40, ever.I think maxstpolish was saying that other players might flat w/ KK, not advocating it as a strategy to use. Although, I could be wrong... but yeah, flatting w/ KK there would be super bad. Link to post Share on other sites
MaxStPolish 4 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think maxstpolish was saying that other players might flat w/ KK, not advocating it as a strategy to use. Although, I could be wrong... but yeah, flatting w/ KK there would be super bad.I wasn't, but you guys are clearly right now that i think of it with half a brain. Link to post Share on other sites
CoolHandKai 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I know we need to assign a range. But, in this case it's AA to AA, suits pending. Anything else, save for possibly KK would just be a shock to me.I'd say the range is AA, KK and AK. But even in the best case scenario AK it's more or less a coinflip, which just isn't worth it at this stage of the tournament. It's a fold and a note who witnessed the fold - people seem to be getting ideas that they can bluff push you around if you make a sensible fold. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'd say the range is AA, KK and AK. But even in the best case scenario AK it's more or less a coinflip, which just isn't worth it at this stage of the tournament. It's a fold and a note who witnessed the fold - people seem to be getting ideas that they can bluff push you around if you make a sensible fold.If his range is exactly AA/KK/AK then it's a call because we're getting laid 2:1 and we have way more than 33% equity. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 60.143% 59.92% 00.22% 28730686 104399.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }Hand 1: 39.857% 39.64% 00.22% 19005028 104399.00 { QcQd } Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I agree with the others. It's a 4.40, it's QQ, I'm never folding.......ever. Assigning a AA,KK, AK range here is ridiculous. I've seen some retards do this with atc in these. I would assign a top 5-7% range here, but a top 2% not so much. I call this pretty much 100% of the time, unless I misclick. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 My rule of anything in small stakes tourneys (~$11 and under)...I never fold AA, KK, AK, QQ PF....like there has to be something really crazy.Yeah its a 4.40...never folding! Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 dont 3 bet it pre if you plan to fold to his shove.Also if he's a big winner I'd say a decent estimate of his range his TT/JJ+ AQs+ AKo. Prob wider than you'd think. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 does anyone think that if he is a good player and has that much in profits that he could be doing this slightly light due to him underplaying his bankroll being prob. hyper deep rolled and just wanted to coin flip early? IDK i still hate life and fold but it really is a crappy spot that early. I do think we see AKs so much here thou! Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Snapcall, villain's range will be a lot wider than AA/KK here against typically poor 4.40 opponents. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Results: Hero decides to "hero" fold and soul-read opponent as having KK/AA. BB makes the call of the all in w/ 10 8 os (...............O_o..............) and re-shoving opponent has AKs. Flop comes 10 10 5, Turn K, River 8. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 DOUBLEPOSTAMENTS Link to post Share on other sites
Poker Addict 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I agree with the others. It's a 4.40, it's QQ, I'm never folding.......ever.Can't be results oriented.I am NEVER folding QQ in a 4.40 this early.All of the ranges I have seen are way too tight for a random, unknown in a 4.40. I have seen shoves with KQ, 22, 9Tcc. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I originally didnt even notice that the BB donk called...Makes it an easier shove. That much more dead money Link to post Share on other sites
cdipierr 0 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Shove AINEC for all the reasons already mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites
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