How To React When Villain's Line Makes Zero Sense

[SwolyswoND 1]

Hero at this point has a LAG image, and other players probably do not think highly of Hero's quality of play. Fish (Villain 2) is an absolute monkey, who will call any size bet with any piece of the board, but typically bolts against any true aggression/resistance.Villain, directly to Hero's left, is a very good LAG. He knows what he represents, he seems to understand position and ranges well. Hero is HJ with :tsFolds to Hero, who opens for $7. Villain calls from CO, Fish calls on BTN. Blinds fold.Flop: :3cHero leads for $15, wanting to get HU with fish. Villain and fish both call, however.Turn: :8dHero checks basically for pot control and because I can't really define Villain's range, and I'm oop and surely can't stand a raise. Villain checks as well, and Fish bets $15 last to act. Hero debates raising here to close out diamond draws, but elects to call.Villain then raises to $45, fish folds, and Hero says WTF. What is villain even repping here? If he had a set or two pair, why would he check the turn after I give up the initiative? There are too many draws left out to risk the turn checking through if he did have something. But if he were just on a draw, why would he make this raise against two players? It's not enough to fold a made hand (especially as Fish could have anything really) or a better draw. What say you all?

[rrumsey 0]

i think check and maybe check raise on flop sets this hand up tom play a lot easier. Your LAG image should effect a few LAG too much if he is smart, he probably figures it is a good time for you to check and induce a bet if you have a good 10 which does make this transparent but i see him wanting to at least isolate to the fish, so flop would go check, raise, call, reraise in which case you almost certianly squeeze LAG out and you may or may not lose the fish but you win a bet from each in the process and if you are behind you will find out quickly because the LAG will definitly call, very sneaky if he does probably means huge hand, or put in another raise. Im not to scared of the fish here thou if your read is right. IDK that is just IMO

[tskillz187 0]

What are stack sizes? I'd probably shove or put in a hefty raise, he's repping nothing.

[qnshustler 0]

I don't hate rrumsey's idea...but as played I think villain may have like a pair+flush draw and is trying to get you to check the river to him in case he doesn't improve. A set/2pair is unlikely because of the factors you said, namely him checking the turn, but it could be there sneakily played since you make it sound like he's capable of tricky play. I think you have to call the turn and check/call a blank river, though I would hate to face a big river bet no matter what comes. Tricky hand..

[SwolyswoND 1]

What are stack sizes? I'd probably shove or put in a hefty raise, he's repping nothing.

I can't remember my or Villain's stack sizes at this point, Villain covered me, I'm guessing I had around $300. Def too much to shove over. Fish had about $150 to start the hand.Why do we raise here? It'd have to be raise/fold for sure, right, and if he calls I'd be lost on the river, I think.

[Dubey 1,035]

yeah his line is a bluff/semi-bluff most of the time.I'd probably call and re-evaluate river. The problem with raising is we essentially turn our hand into a bluff, and I think our hand has a lot of value against villain's range here, since he probably fires again on the river when he misses.We let him get to the river for free, and we sometimes have to pay off his river bet when he improves, but the times he misses and fires again more than make up for it, IMO.and I am c/c'ing almost all rivers here unless he like tanks and then bets or it's really obvious he has a huge hand. Most low limit live players are pretty easy to read when they have a monster.

[tskillz187 0]

Why do we raise here? It'd have to be raise/fold for sure, right, and if he calls I'd be lost on the river, I think.

He's repping no made hands at all. No made hand checks that board in position, it's absolute suicide. Then no made hand makes such a small c/r pricing everything in. And if he does, great cuz he sucks and we should be able to get into situations in the future to draw cheaply.It's never ever ever a raise fold. Once we raise we're getting it in. If I had around $300 still on the turn I'd still shove it in over raising to a different number. There is like $145ish in the pot and you're facing $30 to call. It's a pretty reasonable raise to mush $300 in the pot right now.As for calling and just calling down the river regardless. It's fine I guess, but we don't know villain's bluffing frequency here and it might lead much towards value>bluffing. We also have no idea what his bet sizing is going to be on the river and there's so many scare river cards that we're just closing our eyes and hoping his bluffing frequency is higher than his value frequency.

[KingJames 11]

Heros hand is super under-repped, I'm with tskillz and would shovel this turn

[Temporary Nuts 1]

So why is 55, 33, and T8 eliminated from this line? His raise size is actually begging for action imo."What is villain even repping here? If he had a set or two pair, why would he check the turn after I give up the initiative?"Similar reasons you would want to give the fish initiative. Backdoor flush cards are not exactly scary. It was a super dry flop.

[SwolyswoND 1]

So why is 55, 33, and T8 eliminated from this line? His raise size is actually begging for action imo."What is villain even repping here? If he had a set or two pair, why would he check the turn after I give up the initiative?"Similar reasons you would want to give the fish initiative. Backdoor flush cards are not exactly scary. It was a super dry flop.

Because why would he risk the turn getting checked through with those hands? He doesn't have to fear a draw here necessarily, but there's no way he'd miss out on the value from turn betting. If he thought I was checking to give the fish initiative, that should have exited his mind immediately when I called fish's turn bet instead of c/r. Moving forward, next step. I called villain's turn raise, so the pot is $170 or so heading into the river, which is the .Hero checks, Villain thinks a decently long amount of time, cuts stacks a couple times, and bets $80. I basically had villain's range narrowed to sets or air at this point, and my gut said I should call. (Not saying I did or did not yet, though). Do you all agree?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hero at this point has a LAG image, and other players probably do not think highly of Hero's quality of play. Fish (Villain 2) is an absolute monkey, who will call any size bet with any piece of the board, but typically bolts against any true aggression/resistance.Villain, directly to Hero's left, is a very good LAG. He knows what he represents, he seems to understand position and ranges well. Hero is HJ with :tsFolds to Hero, who opens for $7. Villain calls from CO, Fish calls on BTN. Blinds fold.Flop: :3cHero leads for $15, wanting to get HU with fish. Villain and fish both call, however.Turn: :8dHero checks basically for pot control and because I can't really define Villain's range, and I'm oop and surely can't stand a raise. Villain checks as well, and Fish bets $15 last to act. Hero debates raising here to close out diamond draws, but elects to call.Villain then raises to $45, fish folds, and Hero says WTF. What is villain even repping here? If he had a set or two pair, why would he check the turn after I give up the initiative? There are too many draws left out to risk the turn checking through if he did have something. But if he were just on a draw, why would he make this raise against two players? It's not enough to fold a made hand (especially as Fish could have anything really) or a better draw. What say you all?

If the villain that raised is a very good LAG, I think it's a call and re-eval on the river. There's not a lot that makes sense, except maybe a two pair hand like T8. There's not really a turned draw that makes sense at all. Maybe villain turned a set of 8s. I don't see any reason to go nuts here. Just station this raise and see what happens.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Because why would he risk the turn getting checked through with those hands? He doesn't have to fear a draw here necessarily, but there's no way he'd miss out on the value from turn betting. If he thought I was checking to give the fish initiative, that should have exited his mind immediately when I called fish's turn bet instead of c/r. Moving forward, next step. I called villain's turn raise, so the pot is $170 or so heading into the river, which is the .Hero checks, Villain thinks a decently long amount of time, cuts stacks a couple times, and bets $80. I basically had villain's range narrowed to sets or air at this point, and my gut said I should call. (Not saying I did or did not yet, though). Do you all agree?

Instacall once you've taken this line.

[Dubey 1,035]

Because why would he risk the turn getting checked through with those hands? He doesn't have to fear a draw here necessarily, but there's no way he'd miss out on the value from turn betting. If he thought I was checking to give the fish initiative, that should have exited his mind immediately when I called fish's turn bet instead of c/r. Moving forward, next step. I called villain's turn raise, so the pot is $170 or so heading into the river, which is the .Hero checks, Villain thinks a decently long amount of time, cuts stacks a couple times, and bets $80. I basically had villain's range narrowed to sets or air at this point, and my gut said I should call. (Not saying I did or did not yet, though). Do you all agree?

I don't like that he took so much time before betting, usually indicates strength. any reads/tells aside, I snap-call the river. I have a feeling he might have had the nfd though?

[Jeffro2525 0]

In terms of range for villains hand, I just think there are too many hands that beat you at this point. I'm thinking definetly 10-8 here or he hit a set on the turn. I don't see the value in him firing two bullets on a stone-cold bluff even though your table image is what it was. I may be a nit, but that why I try to avoid hands like Q-10 off out of position.

[SwolyswoND 1]

In terms of range for villains hand, I just think there are too many hands that beat you at this point. I'm thinking definetly 10-8 here or he hit a set on the turn.

If he hit a set or two pair on the turn, why would he check after Hero, who had led the betting on all previous streets, checked? There is no guarantee that the player last to act was going to bet to even give Villain the chance to c/r. The line really makes no sense at all for any made hand.

I don't see the value in him firing two bullets on a stone-cold bluff even though your table image is what it was.

If he was bluffing on the turn, the Ace on the river is a FANTASTIC card for him to barrel bluff the river. He knows unless I have like exactly AT it didn't improve me enough to beat most of the hands he reps, and even if I had AT he's mostly repping sets anyway. Basically its the perfect river for him to valuetown me if he has it, and the perfect river to bluff me if he doesn't.

I may be a nit, but that why I try to avoid hands like Q-10 off out of position.

Even if I weren't playing LAG (I'm actually usually a TAG, but table dynamics forced me to change at this table), I would still open QTo if it were folded to me in the HJ. Folding it there would be way way way too tight. I got a little unlucky that I was still massively oop since I got flatted by both CO and BTN, but I'd do it again every time if given the opportunity.

[Syntonic 0]

Why is everyone's avatar that pixelated image with red chips on a table?I call on the river and puke when he shows A5 of diamonds.Edit: sorry this post is pretty worthless without any explanation...I'll add something later today. I'm really just curious about the avatar.

[tskillz187 0]

Why is everyone's avatar that pixelated image with red chips on a table?I call on the river and puke when he shows A5 of diamonds.Edit: sorry this post is pretty worthless without any explanation...I'll add something later today. I'm really just curious about the avatar.

Swoly is over come with glee that he seems to have a little over $2200 and Mt the same but with around $1200 it appears.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Swoly is over come with glee that he seems to have a little over $2200 and Mt the same but with around $1200 it appears.

You give me too much credit. Those must be 5 cent chips from some home game, IMO.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Results:Hero needs to learn to trust his instincts and hand reading abilities more. I had the clock called on me but eventually folded.Villain showed KQo.

[CobaltBlue 662]

When their lines don't make sense, I usually call. =)Also, the idea of c/ring this flop is, generally-speaking, spewy FPS.