What Would You Do?

[chindi 0]

In a live tournament a week or so ago, $250 buyin it's a charity tournament with first prize being a seat in the main event.Actually have a table with fairly good players, at the third level of the tournament when the following hand occurs.Blinds 75 / 150I'm UTG with about 11K in tourney chips and 8c 8h (I call)UTG + 2 makes it 600 to go, Cutoff calls, and I call. Everyone else folds (Pot 2025).(UTG + 2 has been the table captain, driving action and taking control of pots. Cut off is a fairly passive player, who's willing to call down on his draws if the price is reasonable and does very little betting / raising with made hands. I'd taken a hit or two from him earlier in the tourney learning that particular fact).Edit: UTG + 2 has about 14K, CO has about 15K)Flop: 8s Qs KdI check, UTG + 2 bets 2000, Cutoff Calls and I.... ??There was a fair amount of debate about this at the table post hand, and when talking with one of my friends who was also in the tourney, later in the day.EDIT: (Mind you at the time I was certain of my choice here, and I still am, I'm just wondering how others would play it as to me it seems pretty clear)

[CoolHandKai 0]

You could either just call and then definitely go all in in response to a bet on a non spade turn or you could shove right here. Being often overly cautious, I'd just call, but that could mean you'd have to fold out on the turn, so getting it in while you're most likely ahead is probably the right play.

[jmbreslin 0]

Pot is 6000+, which is more than 50% of your stack, and the board is draw heavy. I'm definitely check-raising here, and since you only have 9000 left I'm just shoving it in.

[KingJames 11]

Pot is 6000+, which is more than 50% of your stack, and the board is draw heavy. I'm definitely check-raising here, and since you only have 9000 left I'm just shoving it in.

This, imo

[SwolyswoND 1]

EZ shove. Too many draws to let a card come off, and you have basically the nuts. CO is certainly drawing here, and UTG could have anything, but we want AK/KQ to look us up. If we take it down here that is a perfectly fine result because our tourney life is on the line with a bazillion draws, and if we get called thats fine too as we have fantastic equity.I'm sorry that UTG had KK/QQ, though. Or that he had spades, called you, and hit.

[skits2 0]

Seems like an easy shove to me. You checked and got the bet you wanted, now it is time to take down the pot if you can, or get all your money in good otherwise. If you call there are a lot of scary cards that could come on the turn.88 is actually below my range that I like to play from UTG, so I might consider folding preflop instead of limping in..... But I'm tighter than most

[cdipierr 0]

Shove AINEC. If they fold, so be it, you picked up a good pot and they had nothing anyway. If one/both call, that's fine too. If they have KK or QQ, FYL, but you were going broke anyway.

[MaxStPolish 4]

In a live tournament a week or so ago, $250 buyin it's a charity tournament with first prize being a seat in the main event.Actually have a table with fairly good players, at the third level of the tournament when the following hand occurs.Blinds 75 / 150I'm UTG with about 11K in tourney chips and 8c 8h (I call)UTG + 2 makes it 600 to go, Cutoff calls, and I call. Everyone else folds (Pot 2025).(UTG + 2 has been the table captain, driving action and taking control of pots. Cut off is a fairly passive player, who's willing to call down on his draws if the price is reasonable and does very little betting / raising with made hands. I'd taken a hit or two from him earlier in the tourney learning that particular fact).Edit: UTG + 2 has about 14K, CO has about 15K)Flop: 8s Qs KdI check, UTG + 2 bets 2000, Cutoff Calls and I.... ??There was a fair amount of debate about this at the table post hand, and when talking with one of my friends who was also in the tourney, later in the day.EDIT: (Mind you at the time I was certain of my choice here, and I still am, I'm just wondering how others would play it as to me it seems pretty clear)

This flop provides a plethora of hands that are in good drawing range for hands that could call a 4x raise by the table capt. Sure you'd really like to keep two guys on the hook as their pre-flop range includes a lot of broadway cards that don't hate this flop. If this is a winner take all tourney, I probably smooth call because I'm looking to triple up here. If there's a solid prize pool after the WSOP seat, I probably shove, happy to take down a 40+BB pot without having to even see a turn, but will be easily happy if I get called, depending on what hits the turn of course!!

[chindi 0]

Thanks for the replies. I read the situation pretty much exactly the same, at that point Check Raise was the right play, CO probably had a draw and hoping UTG + 2 had TPTK or Top Two. My thoughts at the time were that if I'm staying in the pot I need to jam it there as there's barely any card on the turn that's going to make me happier, I considered there might be an argument for getting out of the hand completely... but that would pretty much require me being a completely different kind of player. I probably thought about it for 10 seconds.UTG + 2 goes into the tank for a minute or two and reluctantly calls.CO goes into the tank for about 4 minutes and then folds Js Ts face up.UTG + 2 turns over QQ. As I gathered my stuff to go there was some debate (from the CO) as to whether I'd made the right play or not, but I was content with my decision, though the result sucked. It was an interesting tourney all in all, I took a hit early with Top Two vs a Set, came back and took another hit with a set over set (my 4s vs Qs), and then finally got myself back up, only to get knocked out by that set over set. None of them were bad beats because in every case I was trailing all the way, but I was pleased I dodged a bullet or two.I won the consolation tourney, so that was something .Thanks for all the feedback.

[cdipierr 0]

For the record, JsTs should never be folding here after you push and get called. There's like a bazillion in the pot, and there's no way he can be drawing dead. If he pegs you two for sets or one of you for a set and one of you for KQ, he's about 44% to win. The only time he's in bad shape is if one of you turns up with AsKs in which case he's still 21% to win. His fold is terrible.

[Yahkin 0]

Why is CR'ing here superior to leading this flop? Pricing in the draws? Just curious. As played I shoved in your spot all day.

[qnshustler 0]

Shove AINEC. If they fold, so be it, you picked up a good pot and they had nothing anyway. If one/both call, that's fine too. If they have KK or QQ, FYL, but you were going broke anyway.

+1 you covered every point to be made there. Horrible fold by the JsTs at that point.

[SwolyswoND 1]

@Yahkin:Because you want ALL the money in on this flop, and if you lead you're most likely to just be called by both the PFR and other player (unless they have QQ/KK). AKo probably just flats, AKss will raise your lead but that's about it. It's also NEVER going to get checked through by all players, so checking is not a risk.Also, since the PFR is the most likely to bet, we get the dream scenario, which is where we get CO trapped in a sandwich and will get his dead money when we shove.

[Yahkin 0]

@Yahkin:Because you want ALL the money in on this flop, and if you lead you're most likely to just be called by both the PFR and other player (unless they have QQ/KK). AKo probably just flats, AKss will raise your lead but that's about it. It's also NEVER going to get checked through by all players, so checking is not a risk.Also, since the PFR is the most likely to bet, we get the dream scenario, which is where we get CO trapped in a sandwich and will get his dead money when we shove.

Ok. I guess I was worried about the check through. With a table captain in the hand though, I guess it's quite unlikely. I totally agree we want all the chips in the middle on the flop...just was unsure of the best method.Thanks

[chindi 0]

For the record, JsTs should never be folding here after you push and get called. There's like a bazillion in the pot, and there's no way he can be drawing dead. If he pegs you two for sets or one of you for a set and one of you for KQ, he's about 44% to win. The only time he's in bad shape is if one of you turns up with AsKs in which case he's still 21% to win. His fold is terrible.

I completely 100% agree with you there. To be honest I expected him to call there (I like laying it down there is way to tight for that point but then I'm a little more of a risk taker). Part of what got the debate started at the table was him questioning me pushing... or more to the point whining about my bet pushing him out. More the pity for for him as he would have turned the straight flush.

[melaskins 0]

I completely 100% agree with you there. To be honest I expected him to call there (I like laying it down there is way to tight for that point but then I'm a little more of a risk taker). Part of what got the debate started at the table was him questioning me pushing... or more to the point whining about my bet pushing him out. More the pity for for him as he would have turned the straight flush.

In other words, the guy wanted other players to play nice and give him an opportunity to make his hand the easy way. It blows me away how many people get upset over someone else's play. Our's is the only game that our opponents get upset when we make a strategic moves that work against them. I hate it when someone calls my QQ raise with K5o and hits a K in the flop but that is part of the game. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be playing the game.

[Dhall901 0]

Pretty standard. Table captain is just making his moves, raising standard; I don't necessarily put him on KK or QQ. The call from the cutoff is concerning. I like leading the flop here, if you get re-popped then you may reconsider. As played, I don't know how you don't push here. If you run into Kings or Queens..that's just bad luck. Limping UTG with 88 you're looking to hit your set and get paid off by a hand like AK or AQ. This flop is exactly what you are looking for. Ship it. Double up..or gg

[chindi 0]

In other words, the guy wanted other players to play nice and give him an opportunity to make his hand the easy way.

Yes essentially his argument could be summed up as: 'It was very inconvenient for me that you played to try to win.'