The Game Has More Sense At Higher Stakes

[strappazon 0]

i'm fighting at $0.02 and $0.05 since April. I' ve started with $18 and went up to $140. Then i lost many sessions and few tournaments and i'm not back at $100. Yesterday evening i tried to play out off my bankroll ($0.10) and won about $25 in one hour (more than i did at $0.02 in 10 days).I've noticed that at $0.02 and $0.05 most people probably don't know anything about odds and will paid any bet if they like their hands. This way of playing is boring as hell imo because : - You can't bluff any player.- Most players will only play their cards and will not be scared of a flush or straight draw on the board.You're outdrawed (sp?) very often because people will chase their draw against the odds.Yesterday a hand that really pissed me off happened like this :I'm in late position and there's 2 limpers before me. I raise 4 BB. The blinds and one limper fold and i'm head up. First thing i thought is "ok, this guy have a good hand ". I have queens and the flop comes "QK2". I decide to play a straightforward poker and bet 3/4 of the pot. Dude calls and the turn is a 10.So i think "ok, if he was on a straight draw he would not call against the odds...but i have a doubt" so i bet again 3/4 of the pot hoping he has a pair of king or KQ. He raises me a lot so i'm like "damn..he has AJ and paid agaisnt the odds to catch a T...? wow".The good play for me would be to fold cuz imo it is obvious he has the straight. But like the nervous guy i am i asked him in the chatbox "Damn dude, did you pay a 3/4 of the pot bet to catch one of the 4 remaining cards you need?".Then i told him "we're playing together since one hour and i'm sure you have AJ, probably AJs".The river is blank he bet and i told me "Well, you're chasing agaisnt the odds to catch your cards....you made your straight..now i'll have to see this AJs"....and of course that's what he had.Now, i know i made a complete stupid call...but i wanted to see those two cards. When i playat those stakes i spend my times to fold most of my good hands because when i'm in a pot with let's say a pair of queens anf the flop comes like J26, there's always a guy who raise...so i'm like "ok, knowing this player he probably call my 4 BB preflop raise with J2o or J6o...." so i fold...when when there's a showdown, i'm right most of the time.I did only 5-6 sessions at $0.10 and to me the game makes more sense. Of course there's still some people who play too much hands ot marginal hands but i feel like i can play a better poker. I know most people will think "yeah, it makes more sense until you lose 3-4 buy-in in a row, then you'll change your mind". Well, maybe that's right but honnestly playing a $0.02 or $0.05 is a real pain in the a$$ for me. So now with my $100 bankroll i don't know what to do : should i play one table at $0.10 with $10 (10 % of my bankroll) or should i keep playing at $0.02/$0.05....and feel like i'll have to throw my laptop by the window everytime i see some terrible call/raise.I know you're guy are going to say "if you can't beat $0.05 there's no way you could beat a higher game", but once again, playing with a bunch of guys we are here just for the fun and don't know anything about strategy, odds, etc... it really bother me.I gain about $90 playing at $0.02, and imo there's no difference with $0.05; So is playing at $0.10 a solution ?I'll like to hear your opinions, advices, etc...ps : sorry if that looks like a stupid post.

[Solar 0]

ps : sorry if that looks like a stupid post.

and you know it. and you know why.

[trystero 0]

yea you're going to love light 3-betting, c/bet raising, floating, and triple barrel bluffing

[kkot 0]

yea you're going to love light 3-betting, c/bet raising, floating, and triple barrel bluffing

This.You seriously have to work on your fundamentals and realize where money comes from.

[Biff Goods 0]

Why do you keep asking us if you should do something stupid if you are gonna do it anyway without our advice? What happens when you get outdrawn at .10? Do you think the solution is to put your whole bankroll on the table and play 1/2? Seriously dude, you started off on a heater....now the cards are starting to slow back down to normal, everyday luck variance and you can't handle it. But it doesn't matter what we say.....you are gonna go up and play .10 anyway and then post a thread whining about another bad beat in a couple of days.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Start shoving on flops like your QQ hand, they probably will still call and you will win out in the long run. Or play pot control and let them chase, they will still miss more than they hit.

[westhead12 0]

you are retarded. there is a VERY small difference in .5/.1 than in .02/.5. You've probably just convinced yourself of this. And even if you truly believe this, you've somehow convinced yourself thats its more profitable to play against stronger players, think about that for a second. I dont even know what else to say.

[sadida17 0]

This post is, quite frankly, hilarious. To in essence say "I can't beat a lower level, so I am going to move up and play better competition because they will respect my play more" is absolutely ridiculous. A suggestion -- truly evaluate your play. When reviewing my hand histories, I ask myself "would I make that call against me" and calculate the other persons odds to see if they are indeed making a +EV call. Most of the time, they aren't -- and that puts a smile on my face. My final advice - stay put; the game is the same regardless of the stakes. You have to be able to understand the table and the players at that table.

[trystero 0]

personally I'd love to play at the latest HSP table. Viffer, Dwan, and Dario, no problem. DONK69LOL, UncleJay62, and OZZYOZBURNEZ, no way.

[sjm20 0]

as a semi-serious reply:people are going to do stupid things. you can either adjust and play off of them or let it bother you; i tend to do the former. learn some pot control and try to understand why you're betting 3/4 pot. r u betting for value on the flop? wat would he do on the turn w/ KJ? with AJ? with KK? with 22? if you ask yourself these things and prepare accordingly for any and all options you'll make more sense of it.p.s. there's a reason a 99% of the ppl at those stakes are playing there, and the reason usually isn't because they understand poker and are trying to build a roll....

[babylondonks 5]

you are retarded. there is a VERY small difference in .5/.1 than in .02/.5. You've probably just convinced yourself of this. And even if you truly believe this, you've somehow convinced yourself thats its more profitable to play against stronger players, think about that for a second. I dont even know what else to say.

Sick blind structure

[CoolHandKai 0]

My final advice - stay put; the game is the same regardless of the stakes. You have to be able to understand the table and the players at that table.

The first statement is theoretically true, but in practise it is not for the reason you've given in the second sentence: The players at the table and their mindset *IS* going to be different at higher stakes. Surely calling a 3xbb UTG raise to get a feel for the raising hands of a player is easier at 0.01/0.02 than it is at 0.50/1.00. At least on the tables I observed, a lot of callers come along for the ride on the penny stakes, whereas on a higher stake table, a lot of people fold out.Therefore I am of the opinion that your final advice is rubbish

[sadida17 0]

The players at the table and their mindset *IS* going to be different at higher stakes.

Perhaps I should clarify. You are correct in saying that you are going to see a lot of people coming along for the ride in the lower stakes, and that is what you want when you have the goods. I guess my point is more so that the people at the higher stakes games are still going to call if you are giving them the appropriate odds to call the bet. You have to make sure your "play" is making sense for it to be believable. If it doesn't, it won't matter what limits you are playing -- you will lose. These things are the same regardless of the limits. Of course there are differences in play from $.01/$.02 and $1/$2. If you are "setting traps" at the wrong times or giving people the right amount of odds, both pot and implied, you will be called and experience "bad beats" even though they shouldn't be viewed as such. As I said, evaluate your play and if you are playing correctly and have a solid stack, go for it -- my guess is if you are losing, there are fundamental leaks that should be addressed before moving up the ranks.

[SCS 0]

Players at the micros are super predictable. If you can't beat them you'll never be able to beat higher stakes players.

[strappazon 0]

I understand what you guy are saying. I had no problem to beat the game at $0.02 : i won $130 in like 30 days playing at those stake before variance (and some bad calls) hit me.Like you problably know in some sports, or in some others strategy games, an expert would rather play agaisnt some good opponents than against a rookie, because a newbie will do any kind of crazy moves that don't make sense, when a good player will follow a strategy with a logic.My opinion is that a micro stakes a lot of people aren't here to make money, they just want to have fun. Nobody is afraid to lose 40 cents, so when you raise a strong hand, there's always a dude who is going to call with 58o and will make two pairs when you're 90% sure to have the best hand with a pair of kings or something.I don't say that it will not happen at higher stakes, but i think that people who are "decent" players will not (always) act stupid. I don't think a lot of guys will call a raise with a garbage out of position just because they want to play a hand. In micro stakes i often see people calling or raising from flop to river with absolutly nothing for finnaly hitting their card. I think that when you know you're going to play in a $25 pot, you're probably more worried that when it is a 50 cents pot.Now, for you're info, i played few sessions at $0.10 and i've now decided to go back to $0.05. My bankrool who was down to 80 is now at $115.Also i want to say that people think the game is easier at $0.02 because most of the time there will be like 55% of the players on the flop. More people on the flop also means more chance to be outdrawed (sp?).Cliffs are i think people with absolutly no logic are the harder to beat. And there's more people like this at $0.02.Here are my actual stats if it can help you to judge my game and to give me your opinion (some seesiosn are missing becasue i've played on another computer while on holidays) :

[SCS 0]

You really didn't post any relevant stats, just amount won and lost, and number of hands. Can't tell you anything from that.

[DemonDonk 0]

You're making the same mistakes as i did, I built my bankroll from 20 to 100 and then hit some varience to bring it down to 60, I then decided to play higher stakes and i've lost practically all of it now.

[babylondonks 5]

People like you:A. Are what make higher stakes games profitableB. Are what make lower stakes games profitableC. Deserve to be put in front of a firing squad if A and B weren't applicableAs it is I'll accept that this world contains stupid people because I can at least win money off them.

[SuperJon 175]

Like you problably know in some sports, or in some others strategy games, an expert would rather play agaisnt some good opponents than against a rookie, because a newbie will do any kind of crazy moves that don't make sense, when a good player will follow a strategy with a logic.

No.Good poker players, if given the choice, would likely choose to play against worse competition.

[antistuff 0]

think about it like this - if you win at poker, why do you win? where does the money come from?

[trystero 0]

I can't think of one game or sport where a good player would rather play a bad player when he's ONLY concerned with the result (of course he may want to play a good player to improve at the game / sport himself). Probably because the whole concept is illogical.

[Biff Goods 0]

you guys are missing the point. When ever I play basketball...I probably have a better chance at beating Lebron James than my brother cause Lebron is better at basketball. Duh. I think I'll call Lebron right now and risk my networth on the game.

[outsider13 0]

My opinion is that a micro stakes a lot of people aren't here to make money, they just want to have fun. Nobody is afraid to lose 40 cents, so when you raise a strong hand, there's always a dude who is going to call with 58o and will make two pairs when you're 90% sure to have the best hand with a pair of kings or something.Cliffs are i think people with absolutly no logic are the harder to beat. And there's more people like this at $0.02.

Here lies your problem. You ABSOLUTELY want to be playing players that are retarded. If they suck out on you, reload and get it back. Seriously, you sound completely moronic here because you would rather play ABC nits than loose retards. Loose retards pay. Learn to adjust plz and don't get tilted if you are losing to these guys. Variance can be a bitch sometimes, but seriously give your head a shake.

[strappazon 0]

You really didn't post any relevant stats, just amount won and lost, and number of hands. Can't tell you anything from that.

Who do you need exactly?

[strappazon 0]

Here lies your problem. You ABSOLUTELY want to be playing players that are retarded. If they suck out on you, reload and get it back. Seriously, you sound completely moronic here because you would rather play ABC nits than loose retards. Loose retards pay. Learn to adjust plz and don't get tilted if you are losing to these guys. Variance can be a bitch sometimes, but seriously give your head a shake.

I agree with you. But the problem is that when someone beats you with an invisble and trash hand you lose a lot of chips. Yesterday in a tourney i had JAs and raised in late position. A player with a lot of chips called. Flop came J72 rainbow, i wanted to trap my opponent, i called on the flop and the turn and 3bet him on the river.....dude had 72s....seriously wtf? I didn't lost all my chips but probably 1/3 of my stacks. There's nothing you can't do when people don't give a shit and enter the pot with any two cards. That's just what i'm trying to say. For me i didn't play this hand like a total idiot, of course i could have played it better but there was know way for me to know he had 72. At best i'd have thought he hadA7 or was on a flush draw.