What Happened To Fcp?

[Pack149 0]

the challenge threads ruined the strat forums. they should be locked.

But then where would Checky and Mark argue about who dresses better?As for s7s, Adam pretty much nailed it on the head.

[antistuff 0]

No offense in what Im about to say at all, its not an insult or an attack.I have read only the first 7-8 posts on this thread, but am I the only one that see's the reason this post was made is because maybe Steve isnt getting as much business from his training? Personally, that is the first thing that popped into my mind when I read his posts on here. Like when he said "with the economy slumping this is a good time to get good at poker..." or something to that effect, that just seems like a total advertisement to me.Did anyone else get that vibe?

you guys think steve does training for the money he gets from it?

[DinkDonk 1]

I was in the middle of writing a big tirade supporting the challenge threads, but my girlfriend turned my computer off and now I'm too tilted. so maybe later.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I was in the middle of writing a big tirade supporting the challenge threads, but my girlfriend turned my computer off and now I'm too tilted. so maybe later.

You know what you have to do, Donk, and it rhymes with Brapefruit.

[antistuff 0]

I was in the middle of writing a big tirade supporting the challenge threads, but my girlfriend turned my computer off and now I'm too tilted. so maybe later.

the only advantage i see to the challenge threads is that you can post things that you don't want most people to read but would like to share and it will get lose in them

[NoSup4U 0]

Serious question.I've been a member for a long time. And I used to contribute on a regular basis. These days when I look at threads, it doesn't seem like there is really anything going on. A handful of stake threads, a few rail threads, some challenge threads, and poker media. I suppose that all of these things do fall under general poker. But I have to wonder where the content has gone.Obviously I'm aware that we have strategy forums. And I think those are great.We have lost quite a few people who used to contribute heavily to the forum. I guess I'm saying it would be nice to see some meaningful threads in general on a regular basis. Perhaps they've been posted and I keep missing them...........

My 2cents fwiw:I like Steve and think he's a good guy. But I don't think a post like this is fair to those of us old school posters who are still on a regular basis. Steve I'm not sure how you can post something like this when you are one of the people who used to post a lot of good content here but now never do? I guess if you are asking where all the content has gone and where all the posters went that used to post here regularly, the answer would probably be for them the same as whatever reason you don't post here at all anymore for? Where did you go and why don't you post anymore? Thats your answer.Steve I agree with whoever earlier posted that the reason you seem to incur the wrath of a lot of the younger posters here is because all they've ever seen from you is controversial training posts, and a couple of threads like this one that aren't super positive towards FCP in general. There aren't a lot of posters left who remember you as a great poker player anymore because a lot of those guys have moved on from FCP. Now the current generation of FCPers just know you as the training guy.Like I said, I like Steve a lot, but I just wanted to defend FCP and those of us that do still post here a ton. It might not be super awesome spectacular poker content, but FCP as a community is doing just fine imo. Steve, I've posted it before: Come back and post on a daily basis and be a part of the community here and you'll be very well received. But right now you're not well known to many here, and what most of the 2 years and younger guys know of you is a training related post every few months and a couple of 'FCP is dying' posts every year. That isn't going to help enamor anyone to you.I <3 Steve, S7S, and everyone at FCP except maybe checkymcsucksatnolimitpoker.Mark

[DinkDonk 1]

the only advantage i see to the challenge threads is that you can post things that you don't want most people to read but would like to share and it will get lose in them

It was more about how it got me interested in helping the posters from there, so that it caused me to start posting more in strat. It also got me to be friendly enough with posters to offer to give my personal contact information out to people who want to discuss anything poker related. The LHE challenge thread is basically the main reason I post here. Without it, I would post far less often in strat (where I post quite often) and probably not at all in gen pop. So my point is that those community feel threads help to keep posters like RDog, Mark, Jordan, me, and Dutch, (among lots of others so don't be offended) interested in posting about poker strategy. They are a great attraction to the every day grinding pros.

[El Guapo 8]

I blame J.C. Alvarado and his Jtv thread.FCP just hasn't been the same since watching the armies orgies live and Beans getting people to light things on fire.

[DinkDonk 1]

the only advantage i see to the challenge threads is that you can post things that you don't want most people to read but would like to share and it will get lose in them

It was more about how it got me interested in helping the posters from there, so that it caused me to start posting more in strat. It also got me to be friendly enough with posters to offer to give my personal contact information out to people who want to discuss anything poker related. The LHE challenge thread is basically the main reason I post here. Without it, I would post far less often in strat (where I post quite often) and probably not at all in gen pop. So my point is that those community feel threads help to keep posters like RDog, Mark, Jordan, me, and Dutch, (among lots of others so don't be offended) interested in posting about poker strategy. They are a great attraction to the every day grinding pros.

[NoSup4U 0]

the only advantage i see to the challenge threads is that you can post things that you don't want most people to read but would like to share and it will get lose in them

The reason I love the challenge thread(s) is that it allows me to get to know a smaller group of people on a much more intimate level than just posting in general or strat would. I see pictures of people on their vacations, we post links of Miss South Carolina to make each other laugh, we talk some poker, we bitch about bad beats, we celebrate when people post awesome monthly graphs, etc.I doubt I would be around FCP much if it wasn't for the challenge thread. I'm not here to get better at poker, although thats certainly a byproduct. I'm here because I've developed close relationships with a bunch of friends and FCP is a place we can all come to hang out and enjoy a common interest.Mark

[DinkDonk 1]

Oh and Big D I went more the route of doing something that rhymes with "smacking that bitch around."

[RDog 0]

the only advantage i see to the challenge threads is that you can post things that you don't want most people to read but would like to share and it will get lose in them

What's with all the bitterness towards the Challenge Threads exactly?

[donk4life 34]

Oh and Big D I went more the route of doing something that rhymes with "smacking that bitch around."

Whacking that witch to the ground?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Oh and Big D I went more the route of doing something that rhymes with "smacking that bitch around."

Hey, I can talk strat too, I'm not a piece of meat.

[Vick12 0]

My 2cents fwiw:I like Steve and think he's a good guy. But I don't think a post like this is fair to those of us old school posters who are still on a regular basis. Steve I'm not sure how you can post something like this when you are one of the people who used to post a lot of good content here but now never do? I guess if you are asking where all the content has gone and where all the posters went that used to post here regularly, the answer would probably be for them the same as whatever reason you don't post here at all anymore for? Where did you go and why don't you post anymore? Thats your answer.Steve I agree with whoever earlier posted that the reason you seem to incur the wrath of a lot of the younger posters here is because all they've ever seen from you is controversial training posts, and a couple of threads like this one that aren't super positive towards FCP in general. There aren't a lot of posters left who remember you as a great poker player anymore because a lot of those guys have moved on from FCP. Now the current generation of FCPers just know you as the training guy.Like I said, I like Steve a lot, but I just wanted to defend FCP and those of us that do still post here a ton. It might not be super awesome spectacular poker content, but FCP as a community is doing just fine imo. Steve, I've posted it before: Come back and post on a daily basis and be a part of the community here and you'll be very well received. But right now you're not well known to many here, and what most of the 2 years and younger guys know of you is a training related post every few months and a couple of 'FCP is dying' posts every year. That isn't going to help enamor anyone to you.I <3 Steve, S7S, and everyone at FCP except maybe checkymcsucksatnolimitpoker.Mark

The reason I love the challenge thread(s) is that it allows me to get to know a smaller group of people on a much more intimate level than just posting in general or strat would. I see pictures of people on their vacations, we post links of Miss South Carolina to make each other laugh, we talk some poker, we bitch about bad beats, we celebrate when people post awesome monthly graphs, etc.I doubt I would be around FCP much if it wasn't for the challenge thread. I'm not here to get better at poker, although thats certainly a byproduct. I'm here because I've developed close relationships with a bunch of friends and FCP is a place we can all come to hang out and enjoy a common interest.Mark

MarkBoth of these posts are spot on. I do tend to get a bit defensive of Steve when say he is only about selling his wares. As someone who has been through his program as well, you KNOW that the financial part of the s7s training is hardly why he does it. So ir irks me when people start to bash him. But I agre...he does need to get involved a little more so people don't see him as "training only" Steve.<3

[psujohn 0]

The reason I love the challenge thread(s) is that it allows me to get to know a smaller group of people on a much more intimate level than just posting in general or strat would. I see pictures of people on their vacations, we post links of Miss South Carolina to make each other laugh, we talk some poker, we bitch about bad beats, we celebrate when people post awesome monthly graphs, etc.I doubt I would be around FCP much if it wasn't for the challenge thread. I'm not here to get better at poker, although thats certainly a byproduct. I'm here because I've developed close relationships with a bunch of friends and FCP is a place we can all come to hang out and enjoy a common interest.Mark

This.What happened to the forum is that it grew. When that happens to a forum the signal to noise ratio gets worse. You get far more retarded shit for the same amount of good stuff. The good stuff gets buried in the retarded shit. Some of the old timers get frustrated and leave. Some of them form small communities within the larger community (ie the challenge threads).In some ways I want to agree with Mark that Steve hasn't posted nearly as much good content here as he did in the past but I've seen several cases of him trying to do just that and the masses of forum retards jumping on him with personal insults and off topic bullshit. Steve's a good guy but he has little tolerance for off topic bullshit and I can't say I blame him. FCP has a history of driving away people who come around with good intentions. It's a shame but I doubt it'll change and I'm not sure we can expect people to withstand all the bs either.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

This.What happened to the forum is that it grew. When that happens to a forum the signal to noise ratio gets worse. You get far more retarded shit for the same amount of good stuff. The good stuff gets buried in the retarded shit. Some of the old timers get frustrated and leave. Some of them form small communities within the larger community (ie the challenge threads).

In fairness to the current state of FCP, the retarded shit to good stuff ratio has always been pretty high. In many ways, I think there is less spam and random garbage threads than there used to be.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

I think I echo the thoughts of others when I say:I have nothing against Steve and his S7S crew....but he needs to remember also that people KNOW he one of the top dogs on the forum. We need to look no further than his Mod status for that. So he SHOULD be more visible. I, personally, get tired of every comment he makes in GenPo being about S7S. Granted it is probably jealousy because I am a small-stakes, college kid who can't afford it at this stage in my lifeSteve...you are someone that everyone should LOOK UP to...and when all we see of you for the most part has to do with S7S and the success that has come from it, we have nothing to look up to in regards to you. Make posts supporting a play, or saying "this is a better approach", or even just saying an occasional "GG". Make us feel like you actually CARE about FCP in any way....not to mention that becoming more personable will help with recruiting people to future S7S classes.Best of luck to you, me

[Suited_Up 2]

I agree with everything Mark said.

[antistuff 0]

What's with all the bitterness towards the Challenge Threads exactly?

i think hands got discussed deeper and more in depth when they were posted in the strat section and each had their own thread.

[tskillz187 0]

What's with all the bitterness towards the Challenge Threads exactly?

It's not bitterness. I love the challenge thread and have read every single post from the day it was created. It's just a reality, lots of good posters form tight knit community, others are going to want to be part of good posters/tight knit community, so others watch and try to learn get good enough, post more to get accepted by more respected posters and that's why there is less quality stuff other places. It doesn't mean the challenge threads aren't very high quality, just that because they are so good and so many people only go there the rest of the forum gets worse around it.I think it's just a fact. I don't think they should get locked at all, it's just kind of a shame that it was so wide open that it sucked up a lot of other posters. I'm sure there is often times people are posting and you just skim/go over their posts until you get some regs with stuff you want to see. I know I often skim until I see stuff from 5-6 guys that I want to know what they are talking about.

[DinkDonk 1]

i think hands got discussed deeper and more in depth when they were posted in the strat section and each had their own thread.

I agree that in a vacuum a single hand will get discussed more in depth if it's posted in strat, but there are a few advantages to the challenge thread as well.1. We become more familiar with a poster's particular style, tendency, regular games, mindset, level of thought, etc. This allows us to really personalize our advice and that is due to the community nature of the challenge threads.2. We discuss the more vague concepts that are imo much more important to an overall winning strategy than any single hand analysis ever can. This can carry over to the strat forums a la ShimmeringTacticalWangBear's bluff equity break-even point quiz, but honestly it rarely does. Also, the ins and outs of every day professional poker life go hand in hand with this. The (LHE) challenge thread is as good as it is because of the extra stuff we discuss, not because of singular hand discussion.3. If the challenge thread weren't around, I would visit FCP a lot less and thus the strat forums a lot less. I can't speak for anyone else, but if our excellent strat posters, LHE or otherwise, stick around because of the challenge threads, FCP benefits as a whole regardless of whether or not those posters post elsewhere. I do think that the case with many good posters is exactly that- if there were no challenge threads, they'd go away.

[king1305 0]

Pretty sure many of you are vastly overestimating how much the Challenge Threads negatively effect other parts of the forum. If not for the Challenge Thread I'm not really sure how much I would post here anymore and I'm sure I'm not alone there. There is a reason that when there is an interesting thread even in General that we post it a link in Challenge and its because most people in there just don't read much of what is going on elsewhere.

This. I usually post in other threads just for the hell of it and to kill time, but if there were no Challenge thread, I would have no more reason to even visit FCP.

the challenge threads ruined the strat forums. they should be locked. and maybe sticked at the top of their respective forums so all that content isnt lost.

Level? SW?

The reason I love the challenge thread(s) is that it allows me to get to know a smaller group of people on a much more intimate level than just posting in general or strat would. I see pictures of people on their vacations, we post links of Miss South Carolina to make each other laugh, we talk some poker, we bitch about bad beats, we celebrate when people post awesome monthly graphs, etc.I doubt I would be around FCP much if it wasn't for the challenge thread. I'm not here to get better at poker, although thats certainly a byproduct. I'm here because I've developed close relationships with a bunch of friends and FCP is a place we can all come to hang out and enjoy a common interest.Mark

QFT! Mark is spot on once again! Well said, sir. The S7S guys have their own group that they would go above and beyond for. I feel the same way about most of the regs in the Challenge thread without ever having met them. If there was ANYTHING I could do for those guys, I'd do whatever I could do in my power to see to it that it was done.

What's with all the bitterness towards the Challenge Threads exactly?

^^^This.

[DinkDonk 1]

I'd also like to say that I'm glad most of the GenPop content that's worthwhile is condensed into a few threads. If I had to go through 25 threads full of complete garbage like someone making their first straight flush or losing 4 $2.20 sng's in a row to find something worth reading, I'd quit posting meaningful content altogether. I guess I'm not old school enough to remember the Eden that FCP GenPop used to be, but I prefer it this way to the way it was when I first started posting. I know where I have to go to find the stuff worth reading.

[Pivvy2001 0]

MarkBoth of these posts are spot on. I do tend to get a bit defensive of Steve when say he is only about selling his wares. As someone who has been through his program as well, you KNOW that the financial part of the s7s training is hardly why he does it. So ir irks me when people start to bash him. But I agre...he does need to get involved a little more so people don't see him as "training only" Steve.<3

I respect you for sticking up for a buddy and I know that you are defending him and stating that he helped you be successful. What I am saying, is that while I acknowledge that you are tne other S7S players are better for the training it doesn't mean that Steve doesn't come across as a shill when he posts nowadays. There are a ton of people on the forum that can't afford his training, and tons, like me, who can afford it, but only play recreationally and don't feel compelled to spend that kind of money on a lecture series. The truth is that I am less compelled to rely on Steve then I would be to hire another tutor because of the constant sales pitches. I would pay either Loosh or JC money for lessons (though I only play live so that would be harder to coordinate), because I respect their game and also respect them for participating in the community and not forgetting where they started as players. As for the $3K to $5K if that is wrong then I apologize, but that is the pricing that I have seen previously. I suspect that it is not far off if it is wrong at all.As for your argument that Steve doesn't teach for the money, I can buy that that might be true. However, teaching is a sure source of income for him and doesn't have the risks of having losing sessions. Also, I wonder if there are unsuccessful students out there. Also, it is kind of hard to buy that it is all about relationship building when his new schtick was a seminar idea, which would last a day and clearly not create the kind of lasting relationship that you obviously enjoy.I respect Steve as a player and am sure he is an excellent teacher. But in my 2 years on these forums, I have seen very little content from him except for discussing training. He is frequently very defensive in his posts (such as the seminar posts, training costs and the thread about the big game) and today's post is an affront to all those FCP members that do actually contribute regularly. I am not trying to offend, just calling it as I see it.