This Election Is Becoming A Joke

[Wiz Adult 0]

Hello. I work in the healthcare industry, and I'd like to say that I have an intimate knowledge on most subject related matter. Would you please go through exactly what reasons Cop is 'beyond retarded'?Go ahead and quote what he's said that you think is so stupid, then please tell me why he's stupid for saying whatever you disagree with.Using insults and dumb stereotypes to dismiss those who are disagreeing with you are pretty reflective on just how sophmoric you are, and how little water your arguments hold.

Ok, As much as I hate Michael Moore(He's a propaganda dramatist who overdoes the hyperbole), there were some very valid and solid points made in the documentary "Sicko".Ignoring the drama, the stories themselves were shocking, and uncovered the realities of not having insurance in America,or even the problems that can occur when you do. People losing limbs and being faced with the proposition of either coughing up 60k or doing without:People with insurance being denied due to the insurance company meticulously researching the patients' records,and if there was the slightest anomaly( a yeast infection in one instance) they were denied care. There was so much compelling evidence to suggest that profit came before the well being of all patients.This is a fundamentally flawed way of dealing with health care. I vehemently oppose nonsensical social programs which waste tax payers' money, and ultimately do nothing to solve the problems.However, if someone is dying and needs treatment I want them to have access to decent health care and not put profits before human life.How ironic that the GOP pretend to be pro life,when their policies seem to be the polar opposite.

[Jeepster80125 0]

Ok, As much as I hate Michael Moore(He's a propaganda dramatist who overdoes the hyperbole), there were some very valid and solid points made in the documentary "Sicko".Ignoring the drama, the stories themselves were shocking, and uncovered the realities of not having insurance in America,or even the problems that can occur when you do. People losing limbs and being faced with the proposition of either coughing up 60k or doing without:People with insurance being denied due to the insurance company meticulously researching the patients' records,and if there was the slightest anomaly( a yeast infection in one instance) they were denied care. There was so much compelling evidence to suggest that profit came before the well being of all patients.This is a fundamentally flawed way of dealing with health care. I vehemently oppose nonsensical social programs which waste tax payers' money, and ultimately do nothing to solve the problems.However, if someone is dying and needs treatment I want them to have access to decent health care and not put profits before human life.How ironic that the GOP pretend to be pro life,when their policies seem to be the polar opposite.

Stop posting anecdotal evidence.What specifically about what Cop has stated that you disagree with?Also, I would like you to think about your positions, then read the following article, and comment here.http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,330797533-103680,00.htmlJust so you know, using michael moore's political propoganda to advance your anti-US sentiments, especially in this subject matter, is really fucking stupid.

I vehemently oppose nonsensical social programs which waste tax payers' money, and ultimately do nothing to solve the problems.However, if someone is dying and needs treatment I want them to have access to decent health care and not put profits before human life.How ironic that the GOP pretend to be pro life,when their policies seem to be the polar opposite.

FWIW there are plenty of programs for people with pre-existing conditions to use to receive medical care. Medicaid and it's ills come to mind, there is a safety net program in Colorado for people who can't get insurance elsewhere called CoverColorado. In effect, every single person in Colorado has access to medical care, if they choose to pay for it. There are nightmare stories within every industry, using one to cite as proof of our problems is again, stupid.

[copernicus 0]

Ok, As much as I hate Michael Moore(He's a propaganda dramatist who overdoes the hyperbole),

FAIL There was nothing in Sicko that was even remotely close to being common here.

[brvheart 1,752]

Nimue, you may as well just ignore the opinions of the hardcore Republicans on here:they have absolutely no idea what there are even saying(see the health care argument that idiot Copernicus made,beyond retarded).They have been so conditioned by watching Fox news, plus the fact they were never even contemplating voting for the Democrats anyway.You may as well be debating with a large, steaming pile of donkey dodo. They won't be changing their minds and why should they? The country is in great shape with no problems and everything is rosy.The next 8 years will hopefully be just as successful as the last term of GOP rule.

LOL... Is there anyone that actually watches tabloid news channels, like CNN or Fox?

[copernicus 0]

LOL... Is there anyone that actually watches tabloid news channels, like CNN or Fox?

just millions of people

[pezeveng 207]

latest oddsWinning Party -2008 Election Book Closes Nov 04 12:00 Win Only Democrats -175 Bet Republicans +125 Bet

[copernicus 0]

What a difference a month makes, from Dominated to a Race:Iowa Electronic Markets Winner Take All: Volume Hi Low Average Last09/09/08 DEM08_WTA1,250720.6660.5600.5920.5770.57609/09/08 REP08_WTA2,6191,138.0700.4190.4480.4350.43408/08/08 DEM08_WTA238150.3560.6280.6340.6320.62808/08/08 REP08_WTA282105.2910.3730.3760.3730.373

[Wiz Adult 0]

So if there are relatively few problems with your health service(if it can be called that) why is Obama making health care such a primary point of his campaign? He is hardly going to waste his time promising change in a system that everyone is so blissfully content with,or even if there was a general level of content.Are you seriously saying that Obama is fabricating the poor state of health care in America? Seems to me a lot of people on here reside in cloud cuckoo land.

[Loismustdie 0]

Im just glad you dont matter in the slightest. I hope we invade your country soon. Teach you people some manners.

I haven't been on this site since Palin was nominated, maybe because of constant masturbation, maybe not, but now that I am back I must point out how SuitedAces21 always makes me laugh.

[Wiz Adult 0]

Taken from: http://kottke.org/05/09/health-care-in-americaHealth care in AmericaSorry for the extensive quote, but this paragraph (along with the following one) in Malcolm Gladwell's article about health care in America does a fine job in laying out why it's failing: The U. S. health-care system, according to "Uninsured in America," has created a group of people who increasingly look different from others and suffer in ways that others do not. The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is unpaid medical bills. Half of the uninsured owe money to hospitals, and a third are being pursued by collection agencies. Children without health insurance are less likely to receive medical attention for serious injuries, for recurrent ear infections, or for asthma. Lung-cancer patients without insurance are less likely to receive surgery, chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. Heart-attack victims without health insurance are less likely to receive angioplasty. People with pneumonia who don't have health insurance are less likely to receive X rays or consultations. The death rate in any given year for someone without health insurance is twenty-five per cent higher than for someone with insurance. Because the uninsured are sicker than the rest of us, they can't get better jobs, and because they can't get better jobs they can't afford health insurance, and because they can't afford health insurance they get even sicker. John, the manager of a bar in Idaho, tells Sered and Fernandopulle that as a result of various workplace injuries over the years he takes eight ibuprofen, waits two hours, then takes eight more--and tries to cadge as much prescription pain medication as he can from friends. "There are times when I should've gone to the doctor, but I couldn't afford to go because I don't have insurance," he says. "Like when my back messed up, I should've gone. If I had insurance, I would've went, because I know I could get treatment, but when you can't afford it you don't go. Because the harder the hole you get into in terms of bills, then you'll never get out. So you just say, 'I can deal with the pain.'"You can point fingers at what's wrong or who's responsible all day long, but the facts remain, America's health care system sucks...well, unless you're rich, in which case nothing really sucks. The BBC put it well earlier this week in writing about the crisis in New Orleans: The uneasy paradox which so many live with in this country - of being first-and-foremost rugged individuals, out to plunder what they can and paying as little tax as they can get away with, while at the same time believing that America is a robust, model society - has reached a crisis point this week.

[babyelephant 0]

So if there are relatively few problems with your health service(if it can be called that) why is Obama making health care such a primary point of his campaign? He is hardly going to waste his time promising change in a system that everyone is so blissfully content with,or even if there was a general level of content.Are you seriously saying that Obama is fabricating the poor state of health care in America? Seems to me a lot of people on here reside in cloud cuckoo land.

every democrat pres candidate does this

[Loismustdie 0]

So if there are relatively few problems with your health service(if it can be called that) why is Obama making health care such a primary point of his campaign? He is hardly going to waste his time promising change in a system that everyone is so blissfully content with,or even if there was a general level of content.Are you seriously saying that Obama is fabricating the poor state of health care in America? Seems to me a lot of people on here reside in cloud cuckoo land.

Wrong. He focuses on it because it panders to the poor, his true base, who don't realize they are who they are directly because of him and party. Poor people, bless there souls, believe whatever you tell them, as long as it ends with "and this is how I will take care of you." Why do the Dems focus on losing points of attack? For the same reason the Cardinals continue to not sign depth on their roster, it's all they know.

[Wiz Adult 0]

Wrong. He focuses on it because it panders to the poor, his true base, who don't realize they are who they are directly because of him and party. Poor people, bless there souls, believe whatever you tell them, as long as it ends with "and this is how I will take care of you." Why do the Dems focus on losing points of attack? For the same reason the Cardinals continue to not sign depth on their roster, it's all they know.

I agree with you: The Republican party tells voters Sarah Pailn is a good Vice President candidate, and guess what you believe them.How retarded can people get?

[Loismustdie 0]

I agree with you: The Republican party tells voters Sarah Pailn is a good Vice President candidate, and guess what you believe them.How retarded can people get?

Not an official Republican, but for me personally I wouldn't have minded if she was the Presidential nominee. It would have been interesting to see the left try and tell me why governor Clinton and governer Palin did not both come with roughly the same qualifications. The problem with the pick of Palin is that it's genius is on so many levels most Dems heads just explode. The press was mad because they didn't see it coming, the Dems were mad because they didn't see it coming and when it came realized that, well, shit, this woman is everything the Republican base was looking for and now McCain can go after independents. Which is the real advantage. Then, 2 weeks later repors start coming out that the possibility of another attack is imminent and yo might as well put a ****ing bow on this shit. Game, set, match. Done. Finito. I absolutely love this pick because of what she represents. People like my mom, every woman I knew growing up, strong, ambitious, raising a real family, not this 1.7 kids bulllshit, this bitch is for real. Gotta kid who was knocked up and everything, real person, real problems. No daycare, mom and dad help out. Got haters all around but she keeps on trucking. And most republcans are like me. Fox- which, of course, has a republican slant- did a poll where 91% of those polled approved of the pick. I don't think anyone else on the planet could have delivered that sort of response. Now, it's finished unless Barack drops Biden and brings on Clinton , which would present it's own challenges for Obama as well but it would make it at least an interesting race. I would love to see pants suits vs. skirts.

[copernicus 0]

So if there are relatively few problems with your health service(if it can be called that) why is Obama making health care such a primary point of his campaign? He is hardly going to waste his time promising change in a system that everyone is so blissfully content with,or even if there was a general level of content.Are you seriously saying that Obama is fabricating the poor state of health care in America? Seems to me a lot of people on here reside in cloud cuckoo land.

All politicians are exaggerating the problems to have a talking point, but the Dems take it to a level of hysteria because they want to control more of people's lives. I consult on employee benefits and you didnt (that Ive seen) respond to the question from someone in the business about what you disagree with instead of just foaming at the mouth with Michael Moore propoganda. dont tell me Im in"cuckoo land" when youre sources are Democrat hucksters.This is the last time I respond to a insulting rant of yours. Either get specific so your "facts" can be refuted or STFU.

[Wiz Adult 0]

All politicians are exaggerating the problems to have a talking point, but the Dems take it to a level of hysteria because they want to control more of people's lives. I consult on employee benefits and you didnt (that Ive seen) respond to the question from someone in the business about what you disagree with instead of just foaming at the mouth with Michael Moore propoganda. dont tell me Im in"cuckoo land" when youre sources are Democrat hucksters.This is the last time I respond to a insulting rant of yours. Either get specific so your "facts" can be refuted or STFU.

In case you missed this.Taken from: http://kottke.org/05/09/health-care-in-americaHealth care in AmericaSorry for the extensive quote, but this paragraph (along with the following one) in Malcolm Gladwell's article about health care in America does a fine job in laying out why it's failing:The U. S. health-care system, according to "Uninsured in America," has created a group of people who increasingly look different from others and suffer in ways that others do not. The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is unpaid medical bills. Half of the uninsured owe money to hospitals, and a third are being pursued by collection agencies. Children without health insurance are less likely to receive medical attention for serious injuries, for recurrent ear infections, or for asthma. Lung-cancer patients without insurance are less likely to receive surgery, chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. Heart-attack victims without health insurance are less likely to receive angioplasty. People with pneumonia who don't have health insurance are less likely to receive X rays or consultations. The death rate in any given year for someone without health insurance is twenty-five per cent higher than for someone with insurance. Because the uninsured are sicker than the rest of us, they can't get better jobs, and because they can't get better jobs they can't afford health insurance, and because they can't afford health insurance they get even sicker. John, the manager of a bar in Idaho, tells Sered and Fernandopulle that as a result of various workplace injuries over the years he takes eight ibuprofen, waits two hours, then takes eight more--and tries to cadge as much prescription pain medication as he can from friends. "There are times when I should've gone to the doctor, but I couldn't afford to go because I don't have insurance," he says. "Like when my back messed up, I should've gone. If I had insurance, I would've went, because I know I could get treatment, but when you can't afford it you don't go. Because the harder the hole you get into in terms of bills, then you'll never get out. So you just say, 'I can deal with the pain.'"You can point fingers at what's wrong or who's responsible all day long, but the facts remain, America's health care system sucks...well, unless you're rich, in which case nothing really sucks. The BBC put it well earlier this week in writing about the crisis in New Orleans:The uneasy paradox which so many live with in this country - of being first-and-foremost rugged individuals, out to plunder what they can and paying as little tax as they can get away with, while at the same time believing that America is a robust, model society - has reached a crisis point this week.

[Wiz Adult 0]

Not an official Republican, but for me personally I wouldn't have minded if she was the Presidential nominee. It would have been interesting to see the left try and tell me why governor Clinton and governer Palin did not both come with roughly the same qualifications. The problem with the pick of Palin is that it's genius is on so many levels most Dems heads just explode. The press was mad because they didn't see it coming, the Dems were mad because they didn't see it coming and when it came realized that, well, shit, this woman is everything the Republican base was looking for and now McCain can go after independents. Which is the real advantage. Then, 2 weeks later repors start coming out that the possibility of another attack is imminent and yo might as well put a ****ing bow on this shit. Game, set, match. Done. Finito. I absolutely love this pick because of what she represents. People like my mom, every woman I knew growing up, strong, ambitious, raising a real family, not this 1.7 kids bulllshit, this bitch is for real. Gotta kid who was knocked up and everything, real person, real problems. No daycare, mom and dad help out. Got haters all around but she keeps on trucking. And most republcans are like me. Fox- which, of course, has a republican slant- did a poll where 91% of those polled approved of the pick. I don't think anyone else on the planet could have delivered that sort of response. Now, it's finished unless Barack drops Biden and brings on Clinton , which would present it's own challenges for Obama as well but it would make it at least an interesting race. I would love to see pants suits vs. skirts.

I definitely know which part of your anatomy houses your minuscule brain, and thats incredibly small as well.

[copernicus 0]

In case you missed this.Taken from: http://kottke.org/05/09/health-care-in-americaHealth care in AmericaSorry for the extensive quote, but this paragraph (along with the following one) in Malcolm Gladwell's article about health care in America does a fine job in laying out why it's failing:The U. S. health-care system, according to "Uninsured in America," has created a group of people who increasingly look different from others and suffer in ways that others do not. The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is unpaid medical bills. Half of the uninsured owe money to hospitals, and a third are being pursued by collection agencies. Children without health insurance are less likely to receive medical attention for serious injuries, for recurrent ear infections, or for asthma. Lung-cancer patients without insurance are less likely to receive surgery, chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. Heart-attack victims without health insurance are less likely to receive angioplasty. People with pneumonia who don't have health insurance are less likely to receive X rays or consultations. The death rate in any given year for someone without health insurance is twenty-five per cent higher than for someone with insurance. Because the uninsured are sicker than the rest of us, they can't get better jobs, and because they can't get better jobs they can't afford health insurance, and because they can't afford health insurance they get even sicker. John, the manager of a bar in Idaho, tells Sered and Fernandopulle that as a result of various workplace injuries over the years he takes eight ibuprofen, waits two hours, then takes eight more--and tries to cadge as much prescription pain medication as he can from friends. "There are times when I should've gone to the doctor, but I couldn't afford to go because I don't have insurance," he says. "Like when my back messed up, I should've gone. If I had insurance, I would've went, because I know I could get treatment, but when you can't afford it you don't go. Because the harder the hole you get into in terms of bills, then you'll never get out. So you just say, 'I can deal with the pain.'"You can point fingers at what's wrong or who's responsible all day long, but the facts remain, America's health care system sucks...well, unless you're rich, in which case nothing really sucks. The BBC put it well earlier this week in writing about the crisis in New Orleans:The uneasy paradox which so many live with in this country - of being first-and-foremost rugged individuals, out to plunder what they can and paying as little tax as they can get away with, while at the same time believing that America is a robust, model society - has reached a crisis point this week.

I didnt miss it. Its bullshit. Take a look behind the curtain and the lies of "Uninsured in America"

[Wiz Adult 0]

I didnt miss it. Its bullshit. Take a look behind the curtain and the lies of "Uninsured in America"

Please can you find me an article praising the state of the US health system, and one which indicates all people receive a high level of care regardless if they have insurance or not.

[Nimue1995 1]

I didnt miss it. Its bullshit. Take a look behind the curtain and the lies of "Uninsured in America"

How is it bullshit Cope? I know a great number of people in this position. But I do know that you either close your eyes to the problem if it exists in your social circle or you just don't associate with anyone below your income level. The problem is that if we do end up treating the uninsured sick people it DOES come out of OUR pocket anyway. It's a hidden TAX but a TAX just the same. For me, I'd rather treat the problems earlier when there's a better chance of successful treatment than later when there isn't. Whenwe approve those that are uninsured receiving substandard care then we say as a nation that we worship greed over compassion.

[copernicus 0]

Please can you find me an article praising the state of the US health system, and one which indicates all people receive a high level of care regardless if they have insurance or not.

Go solve your own problems, we certainly dont need what you have:The NHS Next Stage Review Interim Report (October 2007) carried out by Lord Darzi (the Report), reported that, despite sustained investment and improvement in the NHS over the past ten years, access to primary medical care services and the quality of those services, continues to vary significantly across the country. Many of the poorest communities experience the worst health outcomes and major inequalities exist within England in life expectancy, infant mortality and cancer mortality. Further, the gap in life expectancy between the most deprived and least deprived areas has widened, despite improvements in life expectancy in the most deprived areas.Youre on ignore since you cant answer the direct questions posed to you.

[BigLebowski 0]

Jesus, I am gone for a couple of days and a 6 page thread breaks out. Then I read the OP and subsequent page 1 posts and realized why. Shirley, this has to be a level.

[hblask 1]

First of all, in case you didn't know, the group you are quoting has an agenda to socialize medicine. People who still believe in socialism are hardly a good source of information. But l'll pick a little bit of this aparat anyway:

The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is unpaid medical bills.

Is there a reference on this. It sounds like total BS. A study? Anything besides this claim? I'm guessing "buying a house that's way too expensive" is much, much higher than medical issues.

Half of the uninsured owe money to hospitals, and a third are being pursued by collection agencies.

Yes, that's why sensible people buy insurance or, if they can't afford it, look into programs for low-income people. Most such programs have unclaimed money, because their intended recipients can't be bothered to apply.

blah blah people without insurance blah blah semi-coherent anecdotes blah blah....

Yes, that's why sensible people get insurance. See, the problem is, there are a lot of people who wouldn't go see the doctor if there was a free clinic across the street. And you don't really want to get into anecdotal evidence about our system, because for every one you can find about the US, I can find 10 or 20 from Canada, England, or France.

[Wiz Adult 0]

Jesus, I am gone for a couple of days and a 6 page thread breaks out. Then I read the OP and subsequent page 1 posts and realized why. Shirley, this has to be a level.

No, it's not a 'level' and I feel I have accomplished what I set out to do:I have pwned the opposition of this thread from the offset, making clear and concise points,dissecting and correcting erroneous arguments, and highlighting the fundamental deficiencies in the claims of the GOP supporters.Many of whom were in fact, dismissed instantaneously due to the fact their vote was decided before either the Democrat, or GOP candidate was selected(mind blowing).This essentially voided their opinion,as someone who shows so much disrespect for democracy has a worthless and meaningless viewpoint. I have said and will reiterate, I have no party loyalties and therefore my assertions are based purely on the performance and proposals of the respective opposing candidates.One candidate has made solid proposals and advocated change for the country, in the midst of an economic crisis, and various other substantial issues.The other? Well, since he agrees with 90% of Bush' polices, he has proposed nothing different of note.To save his stagnant campaign he knew he could rely on the stupidity and ignorance of his followers, by selecting a VP candidate who like him, has no ideas,but unlike him, has extremist views which will guarantee votes from people with IQ's in the single digits. This brings me onto the GOP following on this forum: Looking back on this thread the majority come across as borderline mentally retarded(putting it nicely) and show just how little they appear to know about who they are supporting, or what the implications are for voting in the same failure of a government for another 4 years. I am confident that any sane,reasonably intelligent person who reads this thread, will see just how laughable the majority of the GOP supporters are and their inability to see the obvious.And hopefully these same people will see how disturbing 8 years of failure has no effect on their vote.The power of conditioning is clearly extreme, and since the GOP mix religion with politics this manifests to the extent it is practically brainwashing. Anyway as you say over there: "it's your funeral"

[brvheart 1,752]

No, it's not a 'level' and I feel I have accomplished what I set out to do:I have pwned the opposition of this thread from the offset, making clear and concise points,dissecting and correcting erroneous arguments, and highlighting the fundamental deficiencies in the claims of the GOP supporters.Many of them were in fact, dismissed instantaneously due to the fact their vote was decided before either the Democrat, or GOP candidate was selected(mind blowing).This essentially voided their opinion,as someone who shows so much disrespect for democracy has a worthless and meaningless viewpoint. I have said and will reiterate, I have no party loyalties and therefore my assertions are based purely on the performance and proposals of the respective opposing candidates.One candidate has made solid proposals and advocated change for the country, in the midst of an economic crisis, and various other substantial issues.The other? Well, since he agrees with 90% of Bush' polices, he has proposed nothing different of note.To save his stagnant campaign he knew he could rely on the stupidity and ignorance of his followers by selecting a VP candidate,who like him, has no ideas,but unlike him, has extremist views which will guarantee votes from people with IQ's in the single digits. This brings me onto the GOP following on this forum: Looking back on this thread the majority come across as borderline mentally retarded(putting it nicely) and show just how little they appear to know about who they are supporting, or what the implications are for voting in the same failure of a government for another 4 years. I am confident that any sane,reasonably intelligent person who reads this thread, will see just how laughable the majority of the GOP supporters are and their inability to see the obvious.And hopefully these same people will see how disturbing 8 years of failure has no effect on which their vote.The power of conditioning is clearly extreme, and since the GOP mix religion with politics this manifests to the extent it is practically brainwashing. Anyway as you say over there: "it's your funeral"

This is awesome!