Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[checkymcfold 0]

aaaaaaaaand i quit. stuck 200. three donkeys just capped flush draws on all streets on back to back to back hands and hit them all vs my 2p, set, 2p.half retarded monkeys, 1. checky, 0.note to self: do not play to blinds while running like shit. you will manage to lose 2 more 10BB pots on the river along the way.note to self: but then you will win this so it is ok. almost valuebet river, lol. btw, call preflop is ok because they will all cap flop and turn automatically with overpairs. and i could be ahead. they're that bad.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $3/$67 playersConverterPre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with 2 2 UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 caps, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.Flop: 3 J 5 (17.67SB, 4 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.Turn: 5 (8.83BB, 4 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.River: 9 (11.83BB, 3 players)UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.Results:Final pot: 11.83BBUTG+1 Shows Qd AcCO Shows Ah KdHero Shows 2c 2h

[cubsfan44 0]

lol beats me. i'm not big into the partying thing that much these days, but i could be convinced to leave my cave for a night if you try harder.

May be heading down your way. Ill keep you posted

[navybuttons 15]

i have been losing to precisely this line far too often lately. can i ever raise/fold the turn here? villain is a ginormous donkey but rarely gets too far out of line on the turn. this 3bet is 2p+ sooooo much, but the only thing i think she can have that beats me is 910 since she 3bets a10 pre. or not.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $3/$65 playersConverterPre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with K J 3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.Flop: Q 8 J (4SB, 2 players)Hero bets, BB calls.Turn: K (3BB, 2 players)Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.River: 6 (9BB, 2 players)Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 11BBBB Shows 10d Ah

straight combinations: 32set combinations (assuming villain smooth calls 100% of range here): 8better 2 pair: 6in total you're behind: 46 combinations2 pair combo's your ahead of: 42tying hand combos: 4each bet looks like each bet has a =ev return so you're definitely getting the right price to call down.

[benhoug 0]

Jesus Christ. In the past 700 hands I've flopped like 1 set and I haven't connected AK or AQ with a flop yet...Blurg!!!

[checkymcfold 0]

straight combinations: 32set combinations (assuming villain smooth calls 100% of range here): 8better 2 pair: 6in total you're behind: 46 combinations2 pair combo's your ahead of: 42tying hand combos: 4each bet looks like each bet has a =ev return so you're definitely getting the right price to call down.

what does that mean in english? :)honestly, i don't speak pokerstove. assuming i give a10 and q8 both 1/3 likelihood of other hands in her range, and put sets out completely (she 3bets pairs from bb every time, i have a long history with her), what does that do?

[benhoug 0]

Jesus ****ing christ. i thought JJ and QQ were supposed to win sometimes.

[navybuttons 15]

what does that mean in english? :)honestly, i don't speak pokerstove. assuming i give a10 and q8 both 1/3 likelihood of other hands in her range, and put sets out completely (she 3bets pairs from bb every time, i have a long history with her), what does that do?

it's still an easy call down. by combinations i mean the likely hood of each individual hand. A T would be one combination. A T would be another combination. and so on. adding up all the combinations of hands that beat you vs. hands you beat yields an almost perfect balance of equity in this example. more than 3:2 needed to call down here.

[looshle 6]

One outed for a few big bets, they both had a 7 here. I usually 3 bet the flop but figured the chance of them both having a 7 was unlikely and wanted 2 bets in 3 ways on flop.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $10/$206 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.Flop: (6SB, 3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.Turn: (6BB, 3 players)SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.River: (9BB, 3 players)SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, SB calls.Results:Final pot: 13BB

[checkymcfold 0]

it's still an easy call down. by combinations i mean the likely hood of each individual hand. A T would be one combination. A T would be another combination. and so on. adding up all the combinations of hands that beat you vs. hands you beat yields an almost perfect balance of equity in this example. more than 3:2 needed to call down here.

ok so the pokerstove approach is like, "they do this with these possible hands, and we just see how often each hand shows up in this situation based on pure probability"?that's like the worst possible quads ever, looshle, lol.

[benhoug 0]

This is how I run:PokerStars Game #15965016702: Hold'em Limit ($3/$6) - 2008/03/14 - 01:09:48 (ET)Table 'Thyone' 10-max Seat #8 is the button*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to RT Firefly1 [Kc Qs]Hadji: folds yossarian22e: calls $3DrDevon: folds Big10: folds Scoobysmurf: folds wrigleyknish: folds RT Firefly1: raises $3 to $6Sir WinsALot: folds Cadric1: folds yossarian22e: calls $3*** FLOP *** [Ac Jh Tc]yossarian22e: bets $3RT Firefly1: raises $3 to $6yossarian22e: raises $3 to $9xlr8s13 leaves the tableRT Firefly1: raises $3 to $12Betting is cappedyossarian22e: calls $3*** TURN *** [Ac Jh Tc] [9h]yossarian22e: bets $6RT Firefly1: raises $6 to $12yossarian22e: raises $6 to $18RT Firefly1: raises $6 to $24Betting is cappedyossarian22e: calls $6*** RIVER *** [Ac Jh Tc 9h] [5c]yossarian22e: bets $4 and is all-inRT Firefly1: calls $4BlooCheese joins the table at seat #7 *** SHOW DOWN ***yossarian22e: shows [8c 9c] (a flush, Ace high)RT Firefly1: shows [Kc Qs] (a straight, Ten to Ace)yossarian22e collected $93 from potFlop the joint, capped on every street and he gets there.

[looshle 6]

Anyone know where you should be @ with VPIP for 6 max games? I'm thinking 25ish?

[benhoug 0]

Wow. 500 hands - 50BB.

[checkymcfold 0]

Anyone know where you should be @ with VPIP for 6 max games? I'm thinking 25ish?

i am around 45 including a lot of HU, or 35 for 4+ players, or 30 for 6+, but i tend to play pretty LAG since people are terrible at my limits. i'd imagine that i'd be closer to 27-28 if my opponents were better postflop, maybe?

[looshle 6]

i am around 45 including a lot of HU, or 35 for 4+ players, or 30 for 6+, but i tend to play pretty LAG since people are terrible at my limits. i'd imagine that i'd be closer to 27-28 if my opponents were better postflop, maybe?

Yea I figured itd be mid-high 20s. How many hands you think you need before your #s start to accurately represent your results?

[checkymcfold 0]

Yea I figured itd be mid-high 20s. How many hands you think you need before your #s start to accurately represent your results?

for 6m i THINK it's 15k for a decent idea if you don't think you've been running especially bad or good or anything. something around 30k should be accurate no matter what, i think. i'm not a pokertracker guy, though.

[checkymcfold 0]

navy, question: can i make pokerstove discount certain holdings by a percentage? like i would only put a10 and q8 in her range on my hand about 1/3 of what they could be based solely on probability if i was actually approaching it that mathematically.

[DinkDonk 1]

Good Beat: I'm rebuilding my roll (currently a bit overrolled for 5/10) and have been taking shots at 10/20. I'm up 85 BB over my last 580 hands of 10/20. Carry on everyone.

[looshle 6]

for 6m i THINK it's 15k for a decent idea if you don't think you've been running especially bad or good or anything. something around 30k should be accurate no matter what, i think. i'm not a pokertracker guy, though.

Heh, me neither as you can tell. So many hands at live games make me use general observation to make my decisions but figure learning the numbers can only help

[navybuttons 15]

lemme see if i did this right.K6 no good sir.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) hero is BB with 3 A SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB calls.Flop: 8 3 5 (6SB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB calls.Turn: 3 (6BB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB caps, hero calls.River: 9 (14BB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero calls.Results:Final pot: 18BBSB Shows 6s Kdhero Shows 3d Ad

[checkymcfold 0]

Heh, me neither as you can tell. So many hands at live games make me use general observation to make my decisions but figure learning the numbers can only help

yea that was kinda my approach, too. i'd never used pokertracker regularly until rb was such a significant portion of my income and just logging a bazillion hands at a mediocre multitabling winrate was better than winning normally at 5/10. i'm actually curious as to whether some of the more seasoned pokertracker users can tell me how they use the program and what's best about it for LHE players. i don't use it for anything right now other than a HUD to verify reads on players and to quote my own stats when someone else asks

[checkymcfold 0]

lemme see if i did this right.K6 no good sir.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) hero is BB with 3 A SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB calls.Flop: 8 3 5 (6SB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB calls.Turn: 3 (6BB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero 3-bets, SB caps, hero calls.River: 9 (14BB, 2 players)hero bets, SB raises, hero calls.Results:Final pot: 18BBSB Shows 6s Kdhero Shows 3d Ad

any info to suggest a river 3b? if he's that bonkers, chances are he's done it previously in the session? also, i 3b from bb about half the time with a3sooooted. the other half i autoraise the flop for info or go into autoshowdown mode against LAGs UI.

[socalpoker_j 1]

The combination of NLHE games becoming tougher and feeling a bit burnt out on the sheer volume of hands I've played in the last few months, I think I'm going to shift some focus into LHE when I'm not playing SHPLO or don't feel like playing NLHE. My online game feels a little bit rusty, so I think I might start small at like 5/10 or 10/20. I haven't really played very much LHE online in the past few years and I'm sure the game/environment has changed/evolved quite a bit (from watching a few CR videos) and it might take a bit of an adjustment. This thread is a great idea, gl everyone.

[looshle 6]

Without a pretty decent read, I'm c/c the river. Bet/calling is ok but usually stops them from bluffing.Also, I rarely 3 bet this hand preflop. Esp in 6 max games, the LAGs are gonna fire away on A high boards and c/f A high boards if you 3 bet it pre.

[navybuttons 15]

navy, question: can i make pokerstove discount certain holdings by a percentage? like i would only put a10 and q8 in her range on my hand about 1/3 of what they could be based solely on probability if i was actually approaching it that mathematically.

well, there's 16 combinations of AT and 9 combinations of Q8.i think to add weight to the range you would just take 1/3 of those numbers. so these were my original numbers:

straight combinations: 32set combinations (assuming villain smooth calls 100% of range here): 8better 2 pair: 6in total you're behind: 46 combinations2 pair combo's your ahead of: 42tying hand combos: 4each bet looks like each bet has a =ev return so you're definitely getting the right price to call down.

now for staight combinations well do 16+ (16/3) = roughly 22 straight combinationsyou said no set combinationsbetter 2 pair: still 6total hands you're behind 282 pair combos you're ahead of (with Q8 now discounted 2/3rds): 36tying hand combos: still 4total hands you're ahead of: 40i know that ahson is really into the math. i'll ask him to come here and check this. but if you deduct both Q8 and AT by 2/3rds it makes it an even easier call down. w/ the 1/3rds deducted i don't know if we have a big enough equity edge to cap knowing that we're going to get raised on the river by every hand that beats us.

[checkymcfold 0]

well, there's 16 combinations of AT and 9 combinations of Q8.i think to add weight to the range you would just take 1/3 of those numbers. so these were my original numbers:now for staight combinations well do 16+ (16/3) = roughly 22 straight combinationsyou said no set combinationsbetter 2 pair: still 6total hands you're behind 282 pair combos you're ahead of (with Q8 now discounted 2/3rds): 36tying hand combos: still 4total hands you're ahead of: 40i know that ahson is really into the math. i'll ask him to come here and check this. but if you deduct both Q8 and AT by 2/3rds it makes it an even easier call down. w/ the 1/3rds deducted i don't know if we have a big enough equity edge to cap knowing that we're going to get raised on the river by every hand that beats us.

i can chug the math by hand if i have to .i'm mostly just curious about the usefulness of software with my questioning. like, my understanding of math is enough to have my instincts say "call down," which i obv did, but what i was curious about is whether it's fairly easy to get a bit of software like pokerstove to do that for you, and include discounting the probability of certain hands based on villain tendencies in the past. if i can't make pokerstove do the 1/3 discounting thing, it's honestly mostly useless to me.fwiw, i also sometimes cap and b/f river, but this villain isn't quite predictable enough in blind situations to do that.