Flopping The Nuts, How To Get Max. Value?

[fuzeeke 0]

Hey all, I'm new to limit (and the forums) and I was wondering how y'all would have played this hand.Full Tilt Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind t60 (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button (t810)SB (t90)Hero (t1585)UTG (t3585)UTG+1 (t890)MP1 (t2310)MP2 (t1945)MP3 (t920)CO (t1365)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, T. UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.Flop: (9.50 SB, t570) 7, 8, 9(4 players)Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (6.75 BB, t810) Q(4 players)Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.River: (9.75 BB, t1170) K(3 players)Hero bets, UTG folds, MP3 folds.Final Pot: 9.75 BB (t1170)1. do I fold JTo from the BB here?2. do I lead out on flop or do i c/r when original raiser bets. I was leading, hoping he had QQ or higher and would have reraised so I could 3bet.3. is there any "good" way to slowplay this here?EDIT: this probably belonged in the tournament forum, sorry about that

[StilettoNole 0]

1. do I fold JTo from the BB here?2. do I lead out on flop or do i c/r when original raiser bets. I was leading, hoping he had QQ or higher and would have reraised so I could 3bet.3. is there any "good" way to slowplay this here?EDIT: this probably belonged in the tournament forum, sorry about that

OK, I am a low limit player, so take this for what it is worth. This is just how I would have played it:1. Yes, I would call one raise with J-10 off from the small blind.2. Yes, I would lead also hoping that the pre-flop raiser would come over the top.3. I would have checked the turn (it looks like a scare card, though we know its not) and let one of the other guys bet it (with three people behind you, I think that it is likely one of them takes a stab at it). Then, of course check raise, and bet on the river.Just my thoughts. Welcome to the site.

[Frez 0]

No problem - all that every shows up in the tournament forum is NL hands so you'll get better feedback here.1. I think it's a lose, but OK call from the BB. The only reason it's doable is because two people had limped and they are certainly calling the raise which put enough money in the pot to make your call OK. If there was only one limper I probably let it go.2. I think this is a textbook check/raise situation here. In fact, if I know the original raiser was aggressive I would c/c flop and c/r turn. You've got the total nuts here without anything like a flush draw on board to worry about. Ya he might have QQ or AK. He's going to bet those if it's checked around to him. There's no reason for him not to c-bet until you lead at it, which tells him your have something.3. See 2.

[rjf826 0]

1. I have no problem with a call here. You're getting 5.5-1 at the time, almost certainly going to be 7.5-1 when all is said and done. Worst case scenario is one of the limpers raises, then the original raiser 4 bets, but i think its a risk worth taking.2. My favorite limit play after flopping a monster is bet right out, especially since you are first to act (i assumed the sb folded), then bet the turn, and check raise the river (many times the check looks like you are abandoning a bluff). Best case scenario is you get raised on the turn. If this happens make sure you three bet and go as many bets as the other player will go (I know a tourney is capped, but in a cash game a lot of players mistakenly stop betting the nuts because it looks like a chop. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a bad player go 8 or 9 bets with a strong second best hand). A lot of times you will get a bluff bet on the river from the original raiser, especially in a case like this where the river looks like a scare card for a bettor. If the other player is a good player, don't be afraid to bet the river because even with a hand like 2 pair or a set on a board like that, a good player is just going to check behind, knowing that they are only getting action from a better hand, but at the same time, they know the odds can't be ignored and will put in a crying call.3. See number 2.

[Zach6668 513]

I only skimmed replies, but I disagree with a lot here, especially the flop play.1. Preflop is extraordinarily standard.2. I lead here every time. There's not reason to think MP3 is going to c-bet this coordinated board into 3 other players, imo. On the other side of the coin, if he does, then we raise and face the field with 2 cold? No thank you. If we do lead though, MP3 might (correctly, imo) raise his AA-TT hands, maybe even an AT type hand looking for a free turn or whatever, and we can 3-ball and hopefully the people who called one bet in between will feel trapped.3. Since we're still 4 ways, I just lead again and hope to get raised. I like the idea of a c/r, but to be honest, I don't know if I can risk the check-through, although it's probably unlikely. At the same time, a bet is more likely to come from LP, where we'd be facing the field with 2 cold again, which isn't a great result, imo. I think a c/r probably makes the same as a lead on average, but with a lead, we open ourselves up to a chance to 3-bet.4. (your edit) I'm ok with this being in either the LHE forum, or the tourney forum. I think you'll get a lot better LHE answers here, and it's early enough in the tourney that you don't have to consider stack sizes or bubble implications yet, so it's basically just a cash-style hand. If you do want me to move it to the tourney forum after a few days though, and let those guys have a crack at it, just let me know and I'll move it once all the LHE'ers have given their two cents.Finally, welcome to the forum.

[Bubba83 0]

I like all streets the way you played it. Nice hand, I'm sure it was tempting to go for something fancier at some point but I like this best for the reasons Zach already mentioned.

[litlebullet 0]

If you lead the flop there's no way to be sure that they will bet the turn. I find the exact opposite of Frez's statement is true and its only safe to keep leading through the whole hand. I play it the same. edit: Let's say we are correct that if we check MP3 will take a stab at the pot on the turn, but is this what we really want? If he does take a whack with his ak or Aq and we check/raise him, like Zach said, we face the other guys 2-cold, but we also probably make him give up on his hand and never let him have a chance at improving on the river either. Only card I feel safe check/ raising the turn with is if a 6 rolled off.

[Moneyball16 0]

I only skimmed replies, but I disagree with a lot here, especially the flop play.1. Preflop is extraordinarily standard.2. I lead here every time. There's not reason to think MP3 is going to c-bet this coordinated board into 3 other players, imo. On the other side of the coin, if he does, then we raise and face the field with 2 cold? No thank you. If we do lead though, MP3 might (correctly, imo) raise his AA-TT hands, maybe even an AT type hand looking for a free turn or whatever, and we can 3-ball and hopefully the people who called one bet in between will feel trapped.3. Since we're still 4 ways, I just lead again and hope to get raised. I like the idea of a c/r, but to be honest, I don't know if I can risk the check-through, although it's probably unlikely. At the same time, a bet is more likely to come from LP, where we'd be facing the field with 2 cold again, which isn't a great result, imo. I think a c/r probably makes the same as a lead on average, but with a lead, we open ourselves up to a chance to 3-bet.4. (your edit) I'm ok with this being in either the LHE forum, or the tourney forum. I think you'll get a lot better LHE answers here, and it's early enough in the tourney that you don't have to consider stack sizes or bubble implications yet, so it's basically just a cash-style hand. If you do want me to move it to the tourney forum after a few days though, and let those guys have a crack at it, just let me know and I'll move it once all the LHE'ers have given their two cents.Finally, welcome to the forum.

I agree with Zach 996756463856484% Leading the flop is alot better for the reasons he stated. I would try to add some more advice to this hand but Zach covered it all.

[Sheiky 0]

PF is a really simple call.i like how you plauyed it.

[Actuary 3]

If you have to ask if pf is ok, it's probably marginal at bestgood rule: Bet Straights hard. They are vulnerable or you'll often be against hands that have enough outs in their eyes to give you plenty of action, like two pair, pair +gutter, etcI really don't mind facing hands with two cold; but I'd be too concerned it gets checkd thru to not lead all streets

[Frez 0]

I have to admit that I was wrong. This is not an ideal check raising situation. If the orginal raiser was in early position then it would be, but as Zach and others pointed out when the original raiser is last to act a c/r would make the players in the middle face two cold. This would be a c/r that you want people to call, not one to protect a medium hand.

[MovingIn 0]

Leading every street from the flop was totally fine. You charged what appeared to be drawing hands, and they just never made their hands, it seems. Not much else you could've done there.