HubDub04 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I feel there needs to be a discussion on this. Here's the story (many of you probably have been following along with the Sorel Mizzi story and know what I am talking about). Andy Mcleod has been CRUSHING Stars and FTP for a while now, and it's just been revealed, in light of the Sorel Mizzi/Chris Vaughn cheating scandal, that Andy Mcleod is only 16 years old. Once this information was revealed by Sorel (once Sorel said this in his rebuttal, a few other well known pros said that they knew he wasn't at least 18 for a while)in his rebuttal Andy has yet to respond. As you can see, this is another HUGE problem. Not only do we have well known, highly skilled pros cheating, but we have kids who are not adults playing online and winning lots of cash that they should not be allowed to win. What's going to happen to Andy's acct? I know that there are tons of people on p5's who have already probably reported him to FTP so we'll find out soon but simply put, everyday we are finding more and more ways that honest players like myself and many others are getting cheated without us even knowing. You might say that playing underage isn't cheating, but in reality, it is. Mcleod has won hundreds of thousands of dollars across all sites that could have been won by poker players that are honest, and of legal age.One more thing, I read in Cardplayer Magazine a few months back, that Andy Mcleod has chosen to keep his real identity a secret and didn't give a reason. At the time, this sounded strange to me simply because 99% of the top online players play live in EPT events or WSOPE events because the legal age to gamble is 18 (Mcleod is from Australia). Why does he not want to reveal his real name and take credit for his success? "Does this guy have something to hide", I thought to myself. Guess he does. Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye Hughes 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 It's very naive to think this hasn't been going on since online gaming started, and it's very naive to think it won't continue to happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Good for him, seriously.Anyone who whines about being beaten by a 16 year old is a serious pussy./thread. Link to post Share on other sites
daniel mahan 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 One more thing, I read in Cardplayer Magazine a few months back, that Andy Mcleod has chosen to keep his real identity a secret and didn't give a reason. At the time, this sounded strange to me simply because 99% of the top online players play live in EPT events or WSOPE events because the legal age to gamble is 18 (Mcleod is from Australia). Why does he not want to reveal his real name and take credit for his success? "Does this guy have something to hide", I thought to myself. Guess he does. i think it would be fine to discuss this. I dont think there is any reason to turn this into a "this guy is obv a bad guy" thread. The people that know about this are obv gonna be people playing at his level. I think if they minded it would have been news before now. Yes he has won money, but he has also put alot back into the poker community. This is why i think its fine to discuss but not to completely destroy someone. He deserves respect regardless. Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Good for him, seriously.Anyone who whines about being beaten by a 16 year old is a serious pussy./thread.It has nothing to do with whining. I've only played with Andy Mcleod a few times in online MTT's and never really got into any big pots with him. All I am saying is that there has to be some way for online sites to stop this from happening so frequently. Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Also, the kid's a sicko obv. I'm not saying hes a bad person or anything, but he is breaking a key rule and something needs to be done to stop this sort of thing IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye Hughes 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Also, the kid's a sicko obv. I'm not saying hes a bad person or anything, but he is breaking a key rule and something needs to be done to stop this sort of thing IMO.Sites have ways of verifying you are who you say you are, but come on.....................ITS THE INTERWEBS!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
FatBurger 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Cheating? Sure. But for every winning player there are 100 people who want to give you their money, regardless of age. Link to post Share on other sites
BigLebowski 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Slippery slope. If you knew how much money you had WON from underage kids you probably wouldn't be complaining much.From the sounds of it, a good amount of the big players knew he was underage already. In the other Sorel thread I made a comment about Andy breaking Sorel's legs or possibly worse for what he did in the satty. Well, sounds like Andy might need the help of his bigger brother now. I still standby my statements though and the punishment just got worse. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Well, I think I know why Hub is bringing this up. On the one hand you have players who have multiaccounted or boght seats from other players who have gone deep in MTTs and it is breaking the rules and alot of people are against this. On the other hand, you have a kid who is only 16 and dominating the MTTs and is also breaking the rules, but it seems that alot of people are ok with it. So where is the line drawn when it comes to breaking the rules? Link to post Share on other sites
fatman 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Breaking a rule about not being 18 is a lot different than cheating. This kid never cheated (that I am aware of anyway) so I personally don't consider it that big a deal. Hope he cashed out a lot of his winnings because now it is probably all gone. Link to post Share on other sites
Dogpatch 2 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Good for him, seriously.Anyone who whines about being beaten by a 16 year old is a serious pussy./thread.I don't care about being beaten by one, but I do want online poker to be embraced and mainstreamed. The fact that a well known, winning player is underage is just more fuel for the moral majority to say that online poker is evil and corrupting our youth. Link to post Share on other sites
FatBurger 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Well, I think I know why Hub is bringing this up. On the one hand you have players who have multiaccounted or boght seats from other players who have gone deep in MTTs and it is breaking the rules and alot of people are against this. On the other hand, you have a kid who is only 16 and dominating the MTTs and is also breaking the rules, but it seems that alot of people are ok with it. So where is the line drawn when it comes to breaking the rules?I think the issue is "Does their rule breaking negatively affect me?". With multi accounts, bought seats, the ability to see hole cards, etc. the answer is a clear yes. With underage gambling, it's more of an unclear no.EDIT:Dogpatch makes a good point too. Link to post Share on other sites
daniel mahan 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Also, the kid's a sicko obv. I'm not saying hes a bad person or anything, but he is breaking a key rule and something needs to be done to stop this sort of thing IMO.i guess just done break the key rules and its alright.... Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I am really suprised this stayed on the DL as long as it did. Im pretty sure a large part of the MTT community knew about this. Personally, I do not think it really is bad to play underage. Ya, its against the rules, laws, yadda, yadda, yadda, but it really is not that big of a deal. If a 16 year old is better than you at poker than give him props and improve yourself. The online poker community is filled with underage players. I started playing online when I was 15 or 16. Link to post Share on other sites
daniel mahan 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I am really suprised this stayed on the DL as long as it did. Im pretty sure a large part of the MTT community knew about this. Personally, I do not think it really is bad to play underage. Ya, its against the rules, laws, yadda, yadda, yadda, but it really is not that big of a deal. If a 16 year old is better than you at poker than give him props and improve yourself. The online poker community is filled with underage players. I started playing online when I was 15 or 16. qft i think this actually says it all Link to post Share on other sites
sagedecarte 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 i dont know if im the only one who feels this way but, who cares?16, 23, 94, 12 it doesnt matter to me the age of who im playingi can see why legislators, politicians, etc. would jump all over this and say well heres why online poker is terrible, but for me... meh Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Breaking a rule about not being 18 is a lot different than cheating. This kid never cheated (that I am aware of anyway) so I personally don't consider it that big a deal. Hope he cashed out a lot of his winnings because now it is probably all gone.hopefully he was smart enough to play under his mom or dads name or something. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I am not Andy MeowCloud Link to post Share on other sites
cardcore 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I think if he's mature enough to handle the money the way he's handled it so far, his age doesn't make a difference at all.Some people fail to remember that gaming for teenagers is a way to escape drugs, among other things. Sure, he's replacing one vice with another, but who is he hurting (besides his opponents) by being 16 and winning bucks? Certainly not himself...I think it's a low blow for Sorel to come out and bring attention to Andy Mcleod to try to take attention off of himself. Give credit where credit's due. Link to post Share on other sites
KHSPoker21 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I'm with NNB on this one. I started playing online when I was 15. If the kid is really that good at 16byears of age why wouldn't you give him props? A question to the OP and everyone against him being able to play, would you be giving this as much attention or debating the issue if he was a LOSING online player? Link to post Share on other sites
fatman 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I'm with NNB on this one. I started playing online when I was 15. If the kid is really that good at 16byears of age why wouldn't you give him props? A question to the OP and everyone against him being able to play, would you be giving this as much attention or debating the issue if he was a LOSING online player?Nobody would of ever heard of him if he was a losing player. Link to post Share on other sites
KHSPoker21 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Nobody would of ever heard of him if he was a losing player.And noone would have a problem with him/the idea of a 16 yr old losing a ton of $$ online. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I'm with NNB on this one. I started playing online when I was 15. If the kid is really that good at 16byears of age why wouldn't you give him props? A question to the OP and everyone against him being able to play, would you be giving this as much attention or debating the issue if he was a LOSING online player?I'm not against him. I was just pointing out the fact that what rules can be broken and which ones can't? I'm pretty sure that we all started drinking before the drinking age limit, but it is/was against the law. And remember that gambling is a form of addiction. I agree with the poster that just said that this is more fuel for legislation to outlaw online poker. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerfan1080 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 To classify something as cheating, I think the line should be drawn where one person gains an unfair advantage over another person. Playing multiple accounts, chip dumping, collusion, etc.Losing against someone who has more skill than you has nothing to do with age. But, the point about making online poker mainstream is very important, there will have to be someway to keep underage gambling in check. Link to post Share on other sites
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