I Have A Good Card (fr) (3/6)

[Acid_Knight 2]

Get to the PF action ... MP3 raised 4xBB PF and made a 3/4 pot bet OOP on a coordinated flop. To me, that means strength, probably a pocket pair, like AA, KK, QQ, even JJ, probably with one of them being a heart. Fair Enough. Since his raise was from MP3 though, his range should be wider than just big pairs. Also, since he bet the flop which was all low cards, he's probably betting most of his overpairs as well as any Ax hand that has the NFD.Cobalt tells us the button is a tad donkish. He could show up with a very wide range of hands, including suited connectors.How do you know he calls suited connectors here?He re-raises from button with AA, AK, KK, QQ, playing short. Really, maybe he's trapping with these hands, not understanding it's bad to let 3 people see a flop.I really think the button has some kind of suited connector and flopped the flush or is playing AhJx, or something and hoped to find the nuts. Why else would you mix it up with the big stacks on a flop getting action? The chance to triple up? Becuase the flop looked good enough to his overpair? Because he does actually have the NFD? Because he flopped a set? Because he flopped a flush?OK, so we get the heart on the turn, and MP3 knows we're interested. I think MP3 is probing with this $150. It's a half-pot bet and really doesn't commit our hero or him. But it does commit more chips into a dry side pot, so it means something. Maybe he's got the nuts and is building towards a river shove/value bet. Maybe he's just trying to get Cobalt out of the hand. Maybe he's got a good but not great hand and doesn't want to give up the lead.

Please just don't assume so much.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Ok, I'll close out my comments here with these:...

Fair enough. I do assume a lot about the hand, but we have probably what should be the second nuts. I'll ignore the possibility of one villain having the Sf and the other having the A high flush. It's all possible, but I'm willing to gamble the $150 on the turn.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Fair enough. I do assume a lot about the hand, but we have probably what should be the second nuts. I'll ignore the possibility of one villain having the Sf and the other having the A high flush. It's all possible, but I'm willing to gamble the $150 on the turn.

Yeah, obv we're not worried about the straight flush. I already said that I'd call the turn when I was playing, but after thinking about the hand, it's probably best to fold like Cobalt did.

[gfdsa146 0]

I think I'd call here and fold to a river shove. I'm calling anything less than a 3/4 pot bet on the riv. Did you inspect villian on the flop or turn to see if he re-checked his hole cards for a heart?sw obv.

[Dictius 0]

I think I'd call here and fold to a river shove. I'm calling anything less than a 3/4 pot bet on the riv. Did you inspect villian on the flop or turn to see if he re-checked his hole cards for a heart?sw obv.

why is this sw?

[gfdsa146 0]

why is this sw?

Did you inspect villian on the flop or turn to see if he re-checked his hole cards for a heart?Because OP isnt playing live.

[Dictius 0]

Did you inspect villian on the flop or turn to see if he re-checked his hole cards for a heart?Because OP isnt playing live.

LOL oops

[NoBBiR 0]

Fair enough. I do assume a lot about the hand, but we have probably what should be the second nuts. I'll ignore the possibility of one villain having the Sf and the other having the A high flush. It's all possible, but I'm willing to gamble the $150 on the turn.

Yeah, obv we're not worried about the straight flush. I already said that I'd call the turn when I was playing, but after thinking about the hand, it's probably best to fold like Cobalt did.

You two are like Felix and Oscar, it's rather funny.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Now that all interest in the hand is gone...Button had ThTc. MP3 had AhAc.As I sat there pondering his bet on the turn, I just couldn't imagine how he could bet there without the Ah. The side pot's dry...so there's very little "value" in him betting without it. If he doesn't have it, then one of the two of us is likely to have it...and since I don't...he probably does. I disagree that villain should bet here with Qh/Jh. I think he's better off trying to c/c down with those.Also, just to reiterate to those espousing, "You hit your draw, go with it!" Hands must constantly be re-evaluated. On the flop, I didn't feel I had enough info to throw my hand away. By the turn, the picture's much clearer despite my improvement.

[ROBBBIGG 0]

Now that all interest in the hand is gone...Button had ThTc. MP3 had AhAc.As I sat there pondering his bet on the turn, I just couldn't imagine how he could bet there without the Ah. The side pot's dry...so there's very little "value" in him betting without it. If he doesn't have it, then one of the two of us is likely to have it...and since I don't...he probably does. I disagree that villain should bet here with Qh/Jh. I think he's better of trying to c/c down with those.Also, just to reiterate to those espousing, "You hit your draw, go with it!" Hands must constantly be re-evaluated. On the flop, I didn't feel I had enough info to throw my hand away. By the turn, the picture's much clearer despite my improvement.

I think you're way better than I am and you probably played this hand as best as can be played without being results oriented. I think the information you gained on the turn makes it pretty clear you're up against Ah. I'd end up shouting the f word, slamming my laptop lid down, getting a drink, and when I get back find out my all-in protection kicked in because I play on Ultimate Bet.

[NoBBiR 0]

Now that all interest in the hand is gone...Button had ThTc. MP3 had AhAc.As I sat there pondering his bet on the turn, I just couldn't imagine how he could bet there without the Ah. The side pot's dry...so there's very little "value" in him betting without it. If he doesn't have it, then one of the two of us is likely to have it...and since I don't...he probably does. I disagree that villain should bet here with Qh/Jh. I think he's better of trying to c/c down with those.Also, just to reiterate to those espousing, "You hit your draw, go with it!" Hands must constantly be re-evaluated. On the flop, I didn't feel I had enough info to throw my hand away. By the turn, the picture's much clearer despite my improvement.

The last part should just be stickied forever. People forget reevaluate their reads on subsequent streets more than studio exec's forget that Will Smith has never played a good movie role. Oh what's this? Will Smith is in I Am Legend? You had me at Will Smith.

[David_Nicoson 1]

The last part should just be stickied forever. People forget reevaluate their reads on subsequent streets more than studio exec's forget that Will Smith has never played a good movie role.

[ ] Fold preflop. Your hand isn't worth the cost to play out of position.[ ] Raise more preflop. You have to consider implied odds.[ ] Get all in.[ ] Bet more on the flop.[ ] Fold. You're either way way behind or slightly ahead.[ ] Call. When villains give you a good price to draw to the nuts in position, accept their offer.[ ] Call as played. You're pot-committed against his range.[ ] Don't bet or raise. Hands that you beat fold and hands that are ahead profit.[ ] You can't beat what he's representing. Fold.[ ] The amount you have contributed to the pot is irrelevant. It's a sunk cost.[ ] Look out! He has a gun![ ] There's not waiting for a better spot in a cash game. The better spot will be there regardless of what you do in this spot. If you're afraid of going broke, then you're in too big of a game.[x] Hands must constantly be re-evaluated. Just because you paid for a draw doesn't mean you have to pay off a hand that beats you.

[NoBBiR 0]

[ ] Fold preflop. Your hand isn't worth the cost to play out of position.[ ] Raise more preflop. You have to consider implied odds.[ ] Get all in.[ ] Bet more on the flop.[ ] Fold. You're either way way behind or slightly ahead.[ ] Call. When villains give you a good price to draw to the nuts in position, accept their offer.[ ] Call as played. You're pot-committed against his range.[ ] Don't bet or raise. Hands that you beat fold and hands that are ahead profit.[ ] You can't beat what he's representing. Fold.[ ] The amount you have contributed to the pot is irrelevant. It's a sunk cost.[ ] He has a gun! What do you mean you want my money? You can't take my money just because you have a gun, you're going to have to shoot me, Mr. "I'm tough because I have a gun."[ ] There's not waiting for a better spot in a cash game. The better spot will be there regardless of what you do in this spot. If you're afraid of going broke, then you're in too big of a game.[x] Hands must constantly be re-evaluated. Just because you paid for a draw doesn't mean you have to pay off a hand that beats you.

FTW.

[simo_8ball 0]

[ ] There's not waiting for a better spot in a cash game. The better spot will be there regardless of what you do in this spot. If you're afraid of going broke, then you're in too big of a game.

There are definite exceptions to this.

[Acid_Knight 2]

There are definite exceptions to this.

Not if you are properly rolled.But who ever is?

[Zach6668 513]

Interested in your explanation on that one, Simo.

[David_Nicoson 1]

There are definite exceptions to this.

Such as . . . ?

[mtdesmoines 3]

There are definite exceptions to this.

Not if you are properly rolled.But who ever is?

Such as . . . ?

I don't like pushing around 50.1% equity edges because no one has that tight a read on random villains.

[Zach6668 513]

I don't like pushing around 50.1% equity edges because no one has that tight a read on random villains.

That's not the point. Your theoretical equity edge here takes into account all knowledge of your reads.It's like the stock market takes into account all known information. It's an efficient market.

[simo_8ball 0]

I was thinking of Jordan's HU game a couple of days ago actually, but I think the logic I use is applicable in some other (admittedly quite rare) situations. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...531&st=9040Jordan's opponent was shoving full buyins preflop every few hands. I reason that while calling with a hand like K5o could be profitable against his range, you're better off waiting for a larger edge.If he doubles through, he's probably going to tighten his range a touch, which is less +EV for us.He said he was going to play properly if he doubled through twice (and presumably would be fairly happy to keep reloading single buyins for a good while).Our greatest EV comes from taking as many buyins off him as possible without him doubling twice. We therefore want as large an edge as possible when calling without being so tight as to 'bore' him into leaving.How do you like them apples?(P.S. Don't pass up known edges in cash games unless you have a damn good reason for it)

[Zach6668 513]

But couldn't one argue that it's still a long term thing? Like, we'll have infinite hands of him being short, and shoving, regardless of whether he wins this one. And not "he" specifically, but a random opponent. In theory?

[Acid_Knight 2]

I was thinking of Jordan's HU game a couple of days ago actually, but I think the logic I use is applicable in some other (admittedly quite rare) situations. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...531&st=9040Jordan's opponent was shoving full buyins preflop every few hands. I reason that while calling with a hand like K5o could be profitable against his range, you're better off waiting for a larger edge.If he doubles through, he's probably going to tighten his range a touch, which is less +EV for us.He said he was going to play properly if he doubled through twice (and presumably would be fairly happy to keep reloading single buyins for a good while).Our greatest EV comes from taking as many buyins off him as possible without him doubling twice. We therefore want as large an edge as possible when calling without being so tight as to 'bore' him into leaving.How do you like them apples?(P.S. Don't pass up known edges in cash games unless you have a damn good reason for it)

Technically, in the situation that you're describing here, he's taking into account the +/- EV of the whole situation, not just the hand as a single entity. In essence, he's not passing up a +EV situation because he feels that the small edge in the hand will be outweighed by other -EV factors if he loses (BR independant of course), making the decision to call with something like K5o a -EV proposition overall. It's like, I'd make the call with J8o if I thought I had live cards and a loss would put him on monkey tilt. Calling with the J8o is surely -EV with respect to the single hand, but the immediate metagame impacts are hugely +EV.Does that make sense?

[NoBBiR 0]

I was thinking of Jordan's HU game a couple of days ago actually, but I think the logic I use is applicable in some other (admittedly quite rare) situations. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...531&st=9040Jordan's opponent was shoving full buyins preflop every few hands. I reason that while calling with a hand like K5o could be profitable against his range, you're better off waiting for a larger edge.If he doubles through, he's probably going to tighten his range a touch, which is less +EV for us.He said he was going to play properly if he doubled through twice (and presumably would be fairly happy to keep reloading single buyins for a good while).Our greatest EV comes from taking as many buyins off him as possible without him doubling twice. We therefore want as large an edge as possible when calling without being so tight as to 'bore' him into leaving.How do you like them apples?(P.S. Don't pass up known edges in cash games unless you have a damn good reason for it)

Applesauce, bitch.

PokerStars Game #13578289932: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/12/01 - 07:03:40 (ET)Table 'Romilda' 2-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: Jord4n ($7585.35 in chips) Seat 2: krazykarl ($408 in chips) krazykarl: posts small blind $2Jord4n: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Jord4n [Ad Ks]krazykarl: raises $404 to $408 and is all-inJord4n: calls $404*** FLOP *** [5d As 3c]*** TURN *** [5d As 3c] [Td]*** RIVER *** [5d As 3c Td] [3d]*** SHOW DOWN ***Jord4n: shows [Ad Ks] (two pair, Aces and Threes)krazykarl: shows [9s Ah] (two pair, Aces and Threes - lower kicker)Jord4n collected $815.50 from potkrazykarl said, "christ"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $816 | Rake $0.50 Board [5d As 3c Td 3d]Seat 1: Jord4n (big blind) showed [Ad Ks] and won ($815.50) with two pair, Aces and ThreesSeat 2: krazykarl (button) (small blind) showed [9s Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Threes

Seriously?

[AimHigher 0]

Wow, this hand is a sick hand.Obviously he has to be betting for value because he is betting into a dry pot. I couldn't fold this though, but I know I probably should. If he has the Qh, what calls him that doesn't have him beat?

[Zach6668 513]

Wow, this hand is a sick hand.Obviously he has to be betting for value because he is betting into a dry pot. I couldn't fold this though, but I know I probably should. If he has the Qh, what calls him that doesn't have him beat?

He might get a call from a set on the turn.And then it'll probably check down on the river.There's some value in betting with JhJx, or QhQx there, against some players.