Racism

[Jennings7 0]

Many will say that. Some people such as you think affirmative action is a hand out. Others believe that it is giving opportunity to others. How can you not see that coming from an inner city school with less qualified teachers and a poorer household can negatively affect your school performance? It's racist to take this into account when hiring or accepting someone into a college? It's ignorant not to.

Hiring someone and accepting someone into a college are 2 totally different things that require 2 totally different sets of criteria.

[renaedawn 1]

The bolded part is accurate. Black families have a far higher rate of 1 parent households. When did I say that had anything to do with slavery? It likely has a ton to do with socio-economic status. Which likely has a ton do with being enslaved for a few hundred years.

By citing it as an example of things that affirmative action helps overcome, you imply that it is a result of the things that affirmative action is trying to rectify.I hear people cite it in the same way you did all the time and that is the implication. It's one of my pet peeves for the reasons I said before.All that being said, yes, it is more accurately socio-economic which probably is related to slavery.So, yeah, just wanted to make sure you were aware of that since you were using it in a way that didn't appear you were aware.

[tskillz187 0]

By citing it as an example of things that affirmative action helps overcome, you imply that it is a result of the things that affirmative action is trying to rectify.I hear people cite it in the same way you did all the time and that is the implication. It's one of my pet peeves for the reasons I said before.All that being said, yes, it is more accurately socio-economic which probably is related to slavery.So, yeah, just wanted to make sure you were aware of that since you were using it in a way that didn't appear you were aware.

Well I think I am linking it to slavery, inadverdantly (that can't be spelled correctly) through socioeconomic status. Which we both pointed out a post back.

[tskillz187 0]

Hiring someone and accepting someone into a college are 2 totally different things that require 2 totally different sets of criteria.

Two exclusive settings that select people to be part of their group based on past academic performance and personal achievements are totally different things?

[tskillz187 0]

That's a good point.. I do understand what you're getting at, but history books tell the history of whites in this society, But in any history book it seems that all other races are praised for they did/do, and whites are the evil race of society.. Is it justified? Perhaps, i'll be the first to admit that we are a very destructive race, but we aren't the only race who came to the western world.. The spanish were just as big as slave owners as the white man..And you bring up South Africa, and this is going in a different direction, but you want to talk about a race being surpressed then lets talk about South Africa... The past 10 years the whites down there are practically slaves to the black leaders.. And I could prove that for you if you want me too.

I'm not a S. Africa buff, so I won't argue against it. You can link something for me if you'd like.I addressed your first point earlier and agree. Leaders from different cultures are often shed in far too forigiving light in an effort ot embrace different cultures. It's a tricky balance to promote awareness of other cultures while still showing that our culture has basically ran shit and we have many accomplishments and whatnot. There definitely is an argument for a lack of patriotism in students. As a teacher it's important that you cover the negative things and point out that in this country the positive achievements GREATLY outweigh the negatives.

[renaedawn 1]

Well I think I am linking it to slavery, inadverdantly (that can't be spelled correctly) through socioeconomic status. Which we both pointed out a post back.

It's not a direct line of cause and effect. It's not unique to African-Americans so it shouldn't be used as a primary indicator that slavery still affects black society. It is most likely an effect of poverty (especially when you see that there's not as big a difference in "family values" between the races when you group your subjects by economic level.) I would agree that it's a direct effect of poverty, though, which most likely is a direct effect of slavery. Just a little more daylight between the 2 is needed. That's all I'm saying.*Edit - In the end, I think we agree. And I'm cool with that.

[donk4life 34]

By the way Tskillz.. this may the wrong time to bring it up, but hows your sister doing? Did she get fully recovered?

[scram 1]

Again, cultural. Take away the skin color. Put a bunch of Asians into the same circumstances with children being raised in the same conditions, without the values and traditions you associate with Asian culture and broken families still occur. If anything it's more a poverty issue than race issue.There is some argument to be made, however, that the poverty issue is a result of slavery.Not sure what you do with that one, but like I said I'm not getting in the race debate.

I'm not trying to draw you particularly into this discussion, so feel free to answer or not. I'm not crosshairing you here.The fact that there are severely corroded elements of Negro culture which ultimate cause negative impacts in their commuity aren't always attributable to the existence of slavery or past "oppression", as much as the apologists love to cite that.Given that numerous other peoples have endured similar (or even worse) hardships and don't exhibit such tendencies, further given that Negroes in their own homelands (including in those areas that have been relatively free from white colonial influence) exhibit the same "behaviors" that cause their failings here, one just can't cite "slavery" as being this all-prevailing excuser. The glaring elephant in the room on the whole Negro/Illegitimacy thing is the fact that during segregation, the illegitimacy rate in the Negro community was SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER than it is since they've been 'freed'. When they were basically responsible for their own communities and existences, they found ways to make it work. When we shoe-horned them into the rest of society and forcibly called them our "equals", suddenly, their illegitimacy rate goes sky-high because of what? Slavery?Sorry. That fails on just so many levels...

[barrec 0]

We do have white holidays, and many people call us (white folk) racist for it. And I'm inclined to agree with those who say we're racist for celebrating those days like we do. Both are celebrations of slavery, mass murder and imperialism. Thanksgiving and Columbus days, for example, are commercialized to the point where no one questions why we celebrate those days. Columbus' 'discovery' of the Americas led to countless atrocities against indigenous people from both continents. The many horrible acts committed against the first people of these continents gets overshadowed by these days of "remembering." What the white culture remembers is how we braved the Atlantic ocean and discovered new land, and how we were able to create colonies against all odds, defeating the native people of the land, and have now flourished into the world's most powerful country. Yet we don't bother recalling how many millions of people were slaughtered in the process while we fought for our freedom and independence - not Europeans, but natives. Who the hell gave Europeans the right to invade the America's and take it over? We DO have white history month - every single month of the year we study, learn about, reflect on and celebrate our white heritage. Our ancestors are heroes for what they did - and that's good enough for the masses.The days, weeks and months of the year that are set aside for the celebration of other cultures are "for" all cultures in America. It's an opportunity for every American to learn about and experience the cultures that make up America - people of all color. If you buy into the idea that America is a 'tossed salad' where various cultures can successfully live side by side one another, then such 'cultural holidays' are avenues for all Americans to learn about their ancestries and come together in mutual respect.

[scram 1]

Who the hell gave Europeans the right to invade the America's and take it over?

Genetics and superior brainpower.

[renaedawn 1]

I'm not trying to draw you particularly into this discussion, so feel free to answer or not. I'm not crosshairing you here.The fact that there are severely corroded elements of Negro culture which ultimate cause negative impacts in their commuity aren't always attributable to the existence of slavery or past "oppression", as much as the apologists love to cite that.Given that numerous other peoples have endured similar (or even worse) hardships and don't exhibit such tendencies, further given that Negroes in their own homelands (including in those areas that have been relatively free from white colonial influence) exhibit the same "behaviors" that cause their failings here, one just can't cite "slavery" as being this all-prevailing excuser. The glaring elephant in the room on the whole Negro/Illegitimacy thing is the fact that during segregation, the illegitimacy rate in the Negro community was SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER than it is since they've been 'freed'. When they were basically responsible for their own communities and existences, they found ways to make it work. When we shoe-horned them into the rest of society and forcibly called them our "equals", suddenly, their illegitimacy rate goes sky-high because of what? Slavery?Sorry. That fails on just so many levels...

I agree with the bolded part which is why I felt like I needed to point out that societal issues may or may not be a result of slavery. Societal issues occur in all societies, hence the name. This is one of the ones of black society. It's not exclusive to black society though.If affirmative action is going to exist, it can't be to rectify your disadvantages from a broken home. If it does you've got way more than a race issue.

[renaedawn 1]

I'm an idiot who can't tell the difference in the edit and the add reply button.

[Spademan 94]

I think one thing you all are missing in your armchair philosophizing and down-syndrome-like prattle about genetics is: I am a mutt and superior to you all in just about every fucking way.Let's talk about how we can mix the penis, athletic prowess and ability to keep a beat of an African, the civility of an Englishman, the brains of a German, the looks of a Swede and the constitution of an Irishman together to form a superman.Well, rather than talk about it, let's find a tape of my parents copulating. (I recently discovered I have some French blood in me as well but I am ignoring it. You will too unless you want me to kill you. [Then surrender to the police.])

[tskillz187 0]

By the way Tskillz.. this may the wrong time to bring it up, but hows your sister doing? Did she get fully recovered?

Still has weight issues (too thin) and is on anti-seizure medicine. Her personality is pretty much back though and she drives and stays alone with her kids so that's good. She's going to go back to work in January. She's a little ancy and work might stress her out, but we'll see. I think by summertime she'll be where everyone in the family remembered her before.So basically she's getting better still, just a super slow process. Everything going well with your sis?

[tskillz187 0]

(I recently discovered I have some French blood in me as well but I am ignoring it. You will too unless you want me to kill you. [Then surrender to the police.])

Pussy.

[Spademan 94]

Pussy.

I have French blood in me because I drank it.So watch your heathen mouth.

[Loismustdie 0]

The point I was making, is it isn't an issue of "earning". You don't "Earn" your freedom. Every human is born free and hsould be free, and it's an abomination to enslave them. The white people weren't benevolent by setting them free, they were monsterous for enslaving them in the first place, and they gained their humanity back by FINALLY freeing them.

It took time. It took new eyes, younger generations, to see the wrong, and then fight against it. That's not benevolance, that's revolution, and you could even call it evolution. It's not like slave owners were all of th sudden like, "This is whack" and freed the slaves. People with a mind for change had to push for it. Other white people, not bevcause black people were not capable but because they believed they were not. My point is, I am willing to take the good with the bad- I am not willing to only take the bad and apply it to my life. I treat all equal, always have, always will- well, except women, but that's not so much a race as just pure evil.

[Loismustdie 0]

Either you're taking the piss, or you've been kidnapped from the past by Bill and Ted, and taught to use a computer. This is one of the most obliviously racist things I've ever read here. At least scram knows he's a racist.

I think what he meant by "was it wrong, probably" is actually alot deeper than you think. Behind every great a wealth is a great crime. Think about it in terms of now- I would say most of us, on a regular basis, buy products made by people who are basically enslaved to make that product. It's damn near impossible to not buy a product made by somebody in a work environment not fit for swine. So, basically, slavery is still prevelant in American society, it's just called something else, and it's also not as simple as 1,2,3,- as much as the worker is enslaved, so am I because that is the product that is available. That is how things are done. I don't think it's wrong insomuch as I alone am pretty powerless to fight it, and arguments can be made that for these people, some is better than none, etc.----but, it's still wrong. That being said, unless I wanted to start wearing potato sacks and eating things I killed and grew myself, every day I contribute to the abuse of another.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Genetics and superior brainpower.

More like luck and coincidence of history and geography.

[scram 1]

zOMG Gunz Germz and Steel!Occams Razor: No.

[vbnautilus 48]

More like luck and coincidence of history and geography.

Yeah, Jared Diamond has a very nice explanation of all this in his book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The basic idea is that geographical factors which allowed for easy agriculture and domestication of animals led to the faster progression of civilization and technology in Europe compared with America and Africa for example.edit after scram responded: I think occam's razor is not in your favor on this one

[scram 1]

Guns, Germs and Steel is one of the most pathetic rationalizations ever. Occam is not only "on my side" here, he makes his summer residence in GG&S. It's classic bullshit rationalizing science that starts out with a philosophical idea and tries desperately to prove it, rather than starting out with the facts at hand and seeing what legitimate conclusions can be drawn from them. If the basic socio-scientific model model used in GG&S were applied to *any* other question, it would be laughed out of middle school academia, but since GG&S seeks to prove something we all so desperately want to believe in, it's given a pass.

[barrec 0]

Guns, Germs and Steel is one of the most pathetic rationalizations ever. Occam is not only "on my side" here, he makes his summer residence in GG&S. It's classic bullshit rationalist science that starts out with an idea and tries desperately to prove it, rather than starting out with the facts at hand and seeing what legitimate conclusions can be drawn from them.

yeah. the guy has a hypothesis, makes observations, and makes a valid conclusion. that's how arguments work, right?

[vbnautilus 48]

Guns, Germs and Steel is one of the most pathetic rationalizations ever. Occam is not only "on my side" here, he makes his summer residence in GG&S. It's classic bullshit rationalizing science that starts out with a philosophical idea and tries desperately to prove it, rather than starting out with the facts at hand and seeing what legitimate conclusions can be drawn from them.

That's an ironic response given that there is no evidence in favor of your claim of genetic or brain differences, a perception which is by your own admission based on "personal experience".

[scram 1]

That's an ironic response given that there is no evidence in favor of your claim of genetic or brain differences, a perception which is by your own admission based on "personal experience".

Two things here:1) You're making a laughably false corollary by trying to say my suggestions regarding prospect differences in intelligence between races )and whatever genetic or neurological dynamics that may cause them) is based on my "personal experience". My personal experience is what caused me to question the retarded notion of "equality" and in turn, found some pretty intriguing science that might suggest very valid biological differences that can be delineated by race. 2) You do not support claims by saying "YEAH, WELL, WHAT ABOUT THAT THING THAT YOU DID!!!!" It's what politicians do when they're backed into a corner (It's also the classic "liberal defense" to almost anything). What I did, do, say or believe that has nothing to do with Guns, Germs and Steel doesn't serve as proof or disproof of same. If you're going to support the bullshit "theories" vomited out in that book, feel free to do so on merit, or simply say that you agree with them and leave it at that.Citing "me" isn't a valid defense of GG&S.