Animal Cruelty

[Loismustdie 0]

True, if you grew up on a farm, there's a familiarity and ease with the whole process. A friend knew some farmers with a cow named Rufus. It came when called and they would scratch its ears and back and pet it. One day John showed up, looked around, and said, "Where's Rufus?" They said, "In the freezer." "Dinner" is also a pretty common name for a cow, among farm kids.As BigD says, pigs are very smart -- capable of learning approximately the same material as a 2-3 year old child (such as recognizing different colors by name and counting on command up to five or six). And I don't think I've ever agreed with BigD more (and that's saying a lot) than when he says, I don't think meat eaters are evil or anything. As a Buddhist, I don't want to be the cause of death for any sentient being. As an American, I like eating everything. I've made the compromise to eat up to seafood, and I draw the line there because I don't think it's evolved enough to feel fear (and I don't think being swept up in a net is necessarily painful). That's a cop-out, to be sure, but it's where I've felt the most comfortable. If people can be vegan, more power to them. I'm certainly not that disciplined about food. If people want meat, that's fine, as long as they don't try to close their eyes to the reality of where it comes from. I'm not on a soapbox nagging anyone to change, just trying to explain why I made the decision I did. I do find evidence to support my decision in the fact that a heavy diet of meat is not good for health, not good for the environment, not good for the animals involved, not good for the world food supply, not good for being antibiotic-free or hormone-free, and so on. But it's still a matter of what you feel comfortable with.Henry, you made me chuckle. Hmmm, does the "trauma" of being chased around at five with a severed cow tongue and a man making slurping noises account for my being vegetarian??? Nah, my dad was just a great prankster. Very funny guy, very great dad. He also convinced me (around age three or four) that eating "raw toast" would make me sick. So would doughnut holes, so while I nibbled carefully at doughnuts, being sure to leave a WIDE berth around the dangerous hole, he would be brave and eat the rest of the doughnut for me. Actually, the fact is I just prefer seafood because it has no fat or gristle, and I inherited that from him. We were both very picky on that score.Lois, pepperoni reminds me that when I first started shifting away from meat, I would ponder about pizza, "hmmm, pepperoni would be really good, but it IS meat..." My husband convinced me to order it by saying, "Pepperoni's not meat -- it's what they sweep up when they're done with the meat." I said, "Good point -- let's get it."

Your husband sounds like a wise man.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

As BigD says, pigs are very smart -- capable of learning approximately the same material as a 2-3 year old child (such as recognizing different colors by name and counting on command up to five or six). And I don't think I've ever agreed with BigD more (and that's saying a lot) than when he says,

Stop, you're making me blush.

[Nimue1995 1]

Anything you eat these days has some danger in it. Seafood has been shown to have mercury in it so eating it can elevate your levels. Not that it would ever stop me from eating lobster. And tomatos apparently have been blamed for a salmonella outbreak in 9 states just recently. By the way, I know exactly why pigs end up in the slaughterhouse. And if you've ever been around any place in the business of raising them, you would know why also. Our kids raised pigs for 4-H for many years. And they were very cute when we got them as weaners. But by the time, they were ready to go to the fair and the butcher, I was very ready to see them go and so was all our neighbors. No matter how clean you tried to keep the pen, it was a STINKY place and when the wind blew in the right direction, so was your house. Plus it was always a toss-up when it came to load them up to go, whether they'd make it to fair alive or whether they'd get shot right on the spot and taken straight to the butcher. Guess they were smart, because they wouldn't ever cooperate in getting into the horse trailer. But they were some of the best pork we've ever had. And a great way to use extra goat milk. Also SB I don't know that I'd count domestic chickens and turkeys as being sentient beings. They never showed any smarts when we were raising them. Most people think goats and pigs will eat anything but in actuality they are rather particular eaters. But a chicken is a garbage can with legs. They will eat ANYTHING including each other given the opportunity.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Also SB I don't know that I'd count domestic chickens and turkeys as being sentient beings. They never showed any smarts when we were raising them. Most people think goats and pigs will eat anything but in actuality they are rather particular eaters. But a chicken is a garbage can with legs. They will eat ANYTHING including each other given the opportunity.

That's perfectly true...my grandparents raised chickens, and they really are evil little bastards. My youngest aunt had the chore of feeding them, and if she didn't throw the feed as far away from her as possible and run like hell, they'd peck her feet bloody.I've just grown not to care for chicken very much lately, but there are two places for which I'll make an exception: the Southern fried yardbird at Wayside Takeout in Charlottesville, Virginia, and the barbeque chicken at Blue Ridge Pig in Nellysford, VA. When it comes to eating only sea-based creatures ... well, let's just pretend that the chickens whose destiny is those two dishes must have been very good swimmers.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

The problem I have with the way chickens are raised, isn't the inhumanity. Fck chickens, we have bread the brains out of them, their mind is the size of a pea.. The problem I have with the industrial poultry business, is the god damn chickens are so flavorless. They breed them to have these giant, low fat content breasts, but the result is they taste like utter garbage. Free range chickens, and freshly slaughtered chickens from a local farmer taste so much better, it's like it's a different animal.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

The problem I have with the way chickens are raised, isn't the inhumanity. Fck chickens, we have bread the brains out of them, their mind is the size of a pea.. The problem I have with the industrial poultry business, is the god damn chickens are so flavorless. They breed them to have these giant, low fat content breasts, but the result is they taste like utter garbage. Free range chickens, and freshly slaughtered chickens from a local farmer taste so much better, it's like it's a different animal.

We have bred them stupid, no doubt. That brings up an interesting thought experiment, one we might not be too far from making reality. Philosopher and animal rights activist Peter Singer was asked, "If we could breed the brains completely out of a creature, so that it was in basically a flat-line coma all its life but still grew normally, would that be ethical?" He said yes, it would, because then it definitely wouldn't be suffering. Essentially, it would be meat grown in a petri dish -- eventually you could even breed away the junk parts like the head and feet. How would you folks feel about that? Just curious how meat-eaters react to that idea.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

We have bred them stupid, no doubt. That brings up an interesting thought experiment, one we might not be too far from making reality. Philosopher and animal rights activist Peter Singer was asked, "If we could breed the brains completely out of a creature, so that it was in basically a flat-line coma all its life but still grew normally, would that be ethical?" He said yes, it would, because then it definitely wouldn't be suffering. Essentially, it would be meat grown in a petri dish -- eventually you could even breed away the junk parts like the head and feet. How would you folks feel about that? Just curious how meat-eaters react to that idea.

My concerns would be 100 percent taste ones.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Surprising how sudden and complete the silence is in regards to lab-grown meat, except for BigD's. It eliminates all the issues of environmental harm, could probably eliminate the health effects re. cholesterol, etc., cruelty, land use, non-killing, and practically every other concern. Are meat-eaters deep down _happier_ with the idea that an animal died? Are you guys squeamish about the prospect of meat that was never alive? I'm not judging, just very curious why no discussion (and why I've NEVER heard it discussed among meat-eaters). It all depends on cost effectiveness, but bits of animal meat can be synthesized in a lab right now, so growing food portions is right around the corner. [Good taste, however, might be a ways down the road.]I'm also curious as to how our Vegan-in-Chief would feel (but it's WSOP season, so no wasting time like us). Would vegans say, "Yay, I can haz cheezburger!" or "Meat of the Living Dead? Grosser than gross!"I'm not even sure how I feel about it myself.

[Loismustdie 0]

Surprising how sudden and complete the silence is in regards to lab-grown meat, except for BigD's. It eliminates all the issues of environmental harm, could probably eliminate the health effects re. cholesterol, etc., cruelty, land use, non-killing, and practically every other concern. Are meat-eaters deep down _happier_ with the idea that an animal died? Are you guys squeamish about the prospect of meat that was never alive? I'm not judging, just very curious why no discussion (and why I've NEVER heard it discussed among meat-eaters). It all depends on cost effectiveness, but bits of animal meat can be synthesized in a lab right now, so growing food portions is right around the corner. [Good taste, however, might be a ways down the road.]I'm also curious as to how our Vegan-in-Chief would feel (but it's WSOP season, so no wasting time like us). Would vegans say, "Yay, I can haz cheezburger!" or "Meat of the Living Dead? Grosser than gross!"I'm not even sure how I feel about it myself.

Gross. Just off the animals and eat them, the way the good lord intended.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Gross. Just off the animals and eat them, the way the good lord intended.

If it was good enough for Abraham, it's good enough for me.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

With your posts in this thread BigD, you just confirm to me and probably other posters that you are pretty narrow minded.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

With your posts in this thread BigD, you just confirm to me and probably other posters that you are pretty narrow minded.

pah, i'm not more or less narrow minded than anyone else in this thread, and in fact I have shown understanding and sympathy for both sides of the animal cruelty issue. I'm just brutally honest about how little I care about it, and and glib in expressing that apathy.

[Plus one 0]

Am I wrong or is this thread actually AGAINST animal cruelty.

[Ausdoz 0]

animal cruelty is the biggest issue int he world today and is why i hate Asia.These idiots have no respect for living things. They will skin a dog and not even kill it first. Thats how bad theyare.Have you seen what Beijing are doing? Selling novelty keyrings for the olympics which is actually a little pouch with a goldfish swimming inside.Never mind that its a closed seal and the fish will be dead within a day.Lucky in that instance the world has told them thats not on.But they couldnt even work that out for themselves the idiots.I spit on that continent. *hoik*If i saw someone be insanely cruel to an animal lets just say they will be hspitaliZED and i wouldnt even feel bad. If there family wants a revenge attack i know lots of black guys through black Phil that would back me up.To quote Pulp fiction "Pipe hittin niggg*as to go to their homes"

[AmScray 355]

If you're aware that something on your plate died for you, and probably didn't enjoy it much, okay then, but don't just close your eyes and pretend that didn't happen.

Quite to the contrary, thanks to the miracles of Barnett Crossbows and the absence of laws prohibiting felons like me from having them, I'm not only "aware" of where my meat comes from, but I'm regularly the very person who facilitated its transformation, from being one of gods glorious creatures into being the steak on my plate. My eyes not only "aren't closed" to what happened, but chances are they were actually looking down a fiber optic sight and directly responsible for the dead animal in question. I feel about as much "guilt" dressing a deer carcass as I do shucking an ear of corn. This is chiefly because I was raised with an intimate understanding of how humans live and what must be done for us to eat.Slaughtering and butchering meat isn't "shocking" to me simply because I rationally comprehend the nature of the food chain.Am I entirely rational on this issue? No. I have a little Australian Shepherd that I love very much and that possesses a comprehension for spoken words probably on par with a 3 year old human (Like, I can ask her to go get her frog- one time- and she will run over and bring me her toy frog. I can then ask her to get her mouse- one time- and she will retrieve her toy mouse... I can repeat this process until she's retrieved every toy in her toy box based on spoken words alone.) There is no question that she feels pain, excitement, quite possibly happiness and sadness and based on what she's displayed thus far, possesses a startlingly high degree of intelligence. Still, that I don't kill and eat her is a decision based on cultural values and my own irrational sentiment, not some magical all-prevailing dictate which suggests that I somehow "owe" her something because she has pretty brown eyes as opposed to an insect, which no one cries over when it gets squished.

[AmScray 355]

animal cruelty is the biggest issue int he world today and is why i hate Asia.These idiots have no respect for living things. They will skin a dog and not even kill it first. Thats how bad theyare.Have you seen what Beijing are doing? Selling novelty keyrings for the olympics which is actually a little pouch with a goldfish swimming inside.Never mind that its a closed seal and the fish will be dead within a day.Lucky in that instance the world has told them thats not on.But they couldnt even work that out for themselves the idiots.I spit on that continent. *hoik*If i saw someone be insanely cruel to an animal lets just say they will be hspitaliZED and i wouldnt even feel bad. If there family wants a revenge attack i know lots of black guys through black Phil that would back me up.To quote Pulp fiction "Pipe hittin niggg*as to go to their homes"

LOL. Mongoloid Asians are funny like that. They are indeed the only breed of human who will kill the last of an endangered animal on earth if some rich chink thinks that the powder from it's ground up horn will give him a better boner. It's because they're born without human souls. This is why they're unable to create anything original and why their strongest cultural asset is a freakish ability to congeal much like ants and work as a mass-collective. They aren't really "people" per se, as we European types tend to define them. They're "Asians" ; a totally unique thing. (hot women, tho)

[Ausdoz 0]

hot women?......bit of a dime a dozen really.Reminds me of limit hold'em,Not alot of variance in this game.

[Nimue1995 1]

I'll worry about saving the dogs and cats etc in Asia when all the children there have enough to eat. Until then, I'm not about to deny anyone access to food even if I find the practice gross. Actually I've had both crickets and ants (chocolate covered of course and they're not bad - kinda crunchy).

[colonel Feathers 5]

Am I wrong or is this thread actually AGAINST animal cruelty.

Are you Borat??