Animal Cruelty

[El Guapo 8]

The statement said 90% of of us would be vegetarians and I think that's accurate.

Daniel, I disagree wholeheartedly. Just 60 years ago, people in this country used to raise and kill there own food as a normal part of their lives, prior to the mass production of commercial meat. I could honestly say that 90% of the people I know would have no problem killing their own food (guys at least). Just so you don't think I am some crazy carnivore that does not understand, my Mother has been Vegan since I was a little kid, and I am roughly your age, so I grew up with that as part of my lifestyle, I love to cook and I did not like steak until I was 17 because my mother would char it so bad it had no taste, she was paranoid of disease. I just think the dead cow/ pig thing is getting old. I know your trying to be funny.... Is your wife a vege freak too?

[chrozzo 19]

hi

[El Guapo 8]

The history channel just did a piece on the manufacturing of Pork rinds and Beef Jerky!OMG....Im gonna be sick. I thought pork rinds were made from CORN! lol....it's fried pig skin.gag.

LOL X 10That is funny!! Corn You kill me sometime Nutz

[grocery_mony 8]

That was hard to watch. I just about cried when they loaded that dog into that garbage truck/compactor. However I was supprisingly unaffected by the Food portion of the video(although the veal section was hard to watch). Sure any unnecessary suffering is appaling, but we have been meat eaters since the beginning of time. Greed is also human nature and as long as the meat industry is a for profit businness you will get some corner cutters. Personally I think meat is way overconsumed in our diets. Maybe if there were higher standards for the meat industry in terms of the quality of life and death of livestock we would eat less of it. I could live with $10 a lb for beef and chicken if I knew the extra money was going into improving the diet, living conditions and the most painless way of eventual slaughter. And hiring non biased inspectors who arent just concerned about the health aspect of the meat but also the ethical treatment of the livestock.

[Balloon guy 158]

if we have the capacity to dramatically reduce the suffering of 'food' animals, should we not have a moral obligation to do so?your line of reasoning assumes we do not have intellect and compassion above that of other species. it also attempts to lump everyone who feels that animals deserve to not suffer together. i would include myself in this group, but my opinions vary greatly with other 'animal rights' people and orgs, etc..

My point was that the natural life of animals is one of cruel survival of the fittest. Darwinism at it's finest.There is no justification for us to be cruel, but let's not pretend that if we stopped eating animals they would all gallop through meadows and die peacefully in their sleep.In order to protect our own humanity I would of course prefer animals are killed as humanely as possible. Like most cows, that are shot in the brain with a metal rod that kills them instantly.But froi gras...whatever it takes..that stuff is good.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Daniel, I disagree wholeheartedly. Just 60 years ago, people in this country used to raise and kill there own food as a normal part of their lives, prior to the mass production of commercial meat. I could honestly say that 90% of the people I know would have no problem killing their own food (guys at least). Just so you don't think I am some crazy carnivore that does not understand, my Mother has been Vegan since I was a little kid, and I am roughly your age, so I grew up with that as part of my lifestyle, I love to cook and I did not like steak until I was 17 because my mother would char it so bad it had no taste, she was paranoid of disease. I just think the dead cow/ pig thing is getting old. I know your trying to be funny.... Is your wife a vege freak too?

pah, the women would do it too.. everyone says all kinds of crazy **** about what they wouldn't eat and what they wouldnt' do for food, and none of those people have ever been hungry.. I don't mean, gosh I'm hungry, I haven't eaten since breakfast and now it's 5 pm sort of hungry.. I mean, go a couple days without food and see how fast you start gutting a pig.My mom had the same irrational fear of meat bourne disease ( some of which don't exsist any more) and would over cook the sht ou of meat.. I've finally started to break her of that habit, late in life.I am all about the improvement of conditions in factory farms and industrial meat packing, how ever.. it's appaling how unsanitary some of these places are,I do agree with Balloon guy's sentiment that it's not like the animals would be scampering in the meadows ( who knew you were a closet Darwinist!). IN fact, most domesticated animals couldn't survive in the wild if you set them free Most pigs could, because they are fierce and intelligent. Perhaps cattle could, if there was no natural preditaor.. and bulls can be pretty mean.. but then again, cattle are very, very dumb, and who knows if they still have the migration instinct. COmmercial fowl, on the other hand, would get WTF owned. The Domesticated Turkey is one of nature's stupidest animals.. My dad worked on a turkey farm as a kid, and part of his job would be to herd the turkey's inside the turkey barn when it rained.... IE they were too stupid to come in out of the rain. My dad insists that they would sit with their beaks open and collect water in their mouths and could drown if you didn't herd them inside. who knows if that's true or not, dad's given to hyperbole.. but chickens and turkey's would get slaughterd by foxed and wolfes and wild dogs and coyotes and any other preditor large and small.. they are dumb, flightless and defenseless

[Zeatrix 0]

So ethanol will result in hurting the poor by making Big Macs more expensive. Us rich guys will not be affected by $5 Big Macs.

$5 Big Macs? Is that expensive? They've been about $5 for a loooong time in Sweden :DOh, that's right, we're a socialist country, almost like communism!

[akoff 0]

Oh, that's right, we're a socialist country, almost like communism!

Your learning...there is hope for your yet. Give it a couple years and you will turn into a true capitalist.

[akoff 0]

The statement said 90% of of us would be vegetarians and I think that's accurate.

There is no way that the 90 percent figure could be accurate. Think about it, the statement just doesn’t add up. To the best of my knowledge this whole Vegan thing is pretty new concept (40 years or so). In all past generations meat was the primary source of food…so now all of the sudden 90 percent of the world is going Vegan because you theoretically couldn’t buy meat…I call bullsh!tThat defies logic. History tells us that the more we change the more we stay the same. The human race has been making the same mistakes for countless generations…and now we are going to say we’ll all grow a garden…LOL sorry but it wouldn’t happen. You would have chicken coups on the roof in Brooklyn first.By the way if that stupid fantasy of people having to kill their own food ever did come about…I would be in the meat black market as soon as possible…what a gold mine that would be!!!A good filet would be off the chart…BG would be bucking up 150.00 for a meal at home and be happy to do it…Start the lobby now. NO MEAT FOR YOU!!!

[7s7c 0]

The movie Cannibal Holocaust actually killed animals during the filming. That's all I got...

[fighter 4]

The movie Cannibal Holocaust actually killed animals during the filming. That's all I got...

that was pretty sick The human death wasnt real but looked it. why couldnt they do the same thing for the animals is beyond me

[All_In 0]

My point was that the natural life of animals is one of cruel survival of the fittest. Darwinism at it's finest.There is no justification for us to be cruel, but let's not pretend that if we stopped eating animals they would all gallop through meadows and die peacefully in their sleep.In order to protect our own humanity I would of course prefer animals are killed as humanely as possible. Like most cows, that are shot in the brain with a metal rod that kills them instantly.But froi gras...whatever it takes..that stuff is good.

yes, nature can be very cruel, and i know that 'food' animals would not sing kumbia by a campfire if freed.i have no issue of humane killing for food, i've done it. just thinking, i wonder what conditions suddenly go from 'humane' to 'not humane'? would the herding of animals to the slaughter be considered inhumane? i'm sure their natural instincts tell them something very bad is going to occur, if all they hear and see are death sounds and sights. as well as smelling blood (not to mention any pheromones, etc that they may be able to pick up). what about their transport?and to others who use the old argument that the 'food' animals would just end up dying if freed, c'mon! think about that line of reasoning. first off, it's not like all these animals would suddenly be let loose. second, there would be no reason to continue breeding them, so there wouldn't be this endless supply of animals being pumped into nature to die.and when it comes right down to it, would u rather be raised in factory conditions, so remote from anything you were evolved to cope with (i.e. crowding, wire bottoms of cages, diet, etc), and at the end, die a horrible death, or have a free life, and then have a certain probability of possibly dying a horrible death?of course i just had a steak for breakfast. i eat a lot of meat because i have been weight training for a while now, and from past experience, the more quality animal protein you take in, the better you grow. I believe humans are omnivores. to people who say that we were not designed to eat meat, well we were also not designed to digest plant fibre, like say a cow. it is widely accepted that the evolution of homo sapiens was given a tremendous boost once we started to have more meat in our diets. the added protein contributed to a larger brain.the bottom line for me is that unnecessary cruelty in the food industry should be banned. it would appear that most would agree. it is puzzling to me why some would actually argue in favour of cruelty.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

yes, nature can be very cruel, and i know that 'food' animals would not sing kumbia by a campfire if freed.i have no issue of humane killing for food, i've done it. just thinking, i wonder what conditions suddenly go from 'humane' to 'not humane'? would the herding of animals to the slaughter be considered inhumane? i'm sure their natural instincts tell them something very bad is going to occur, if all they hear and see are death sounds and sights. as well as smelling blood (not to mention any pheromones, etc that they may be able to pick up). what about their transport?and to others who use the old argument that the 'food' animals would just end up dying if freed, c'mon! think about that line of reasoning. first off, it's not like all these animals would suddenly be let loose. second, there would be no reason to continue breeding them, so there wouldn't be this endless supply of animals being pumped into nature to die.and when it comes right down to it, would u rather be raised in factory conditions, so remote from anything you were evolved to cope with (i.e. crowding, wire bottoms of cages, diet, etc), and at the end, die a horrible death, or have a free life, and then have a certain probability of possibly dying a horrible death?of course i just had a steak for breakfast. i eat a lot of meat because i have been weight training for a while now, and from past experience, the more quality animal protein you take in, the better you grow. I believe humans are omnivores. to people who say that we were not designed to eat meat, well we were also not designed to digest plant fibre, like say a cow. it is widely accepted that the evolution of homo sapiens was given a tremendous boost once we started to have more meat in our diets. the added protein contributed to a larger brain.the bottom line for me is that unnecessary cruelty in the food industry should be banned. it would appear that most would agree. it is puzzling to me why some would actually argue in favour of cruelty.

Listen, the bottom line is there's money behind keeping meat production cheap, and there's no money (comparatively) to making meat production humane. The animal rights lobby is a fringe lobby of the left, that has little real power. It would take a huge national outcry from the general public to change the way meat is produced, not just legistlatively, but with massive boy cotts of Conagra and the like... and I just don't see that happening any time soon. The fact is most americans, like me, don't give a damn how their meat is produced, not enough to stop eating cheap meat. This might sound cold, but I care much more about paying triple the current cost of a pound of chicken than I do about a chicken's suffering.

[chrozzo 19]

rhi hsa to comeim drebust steaka reareallt goood..m,...rwsllt oogood,i so fucvk animright ad alltrrhts.,,,theywere put onths neart fprusto cinsure..weeeeeeeeeeeee...it si the bile nanrae l

hmmm....steak something, really goodanimals.....something somethingnope, even i cant translate that

[All_In 0]

Listen, the bottom line is there's money behind keeping meat production cheap, and there's no money (comparatively) to making meat production humane. The animal rights lobby is a fringe lobby of the left, that has little real power. It would take a huge national outcry from the general public to change the way meat is produced, not just legistlatively, but with massive boy cotts of Conagra and the like... and I just don't see that happening any time soon. The fact is most americans, like me, don't give a damn how their meat is produced, not enough to stop eating cheap meat. This might sound cold, but I care much more about paying triple the current cost of a pound of chicken than I do about a chicken's suffering.

never said a huge outcry wouldn't be needed. more people should be made aware of the conditions and suffering. have u watched the vid DN mentions? have u seen ANY footage of what goes on in slaughterhouses, not just what is supposed to occur, but the wanton cruelty by employees?and it is quite alarmist (and ridiculous)of u to suggest that chicken will triple in cost due to the fact they are humanely treated. all the org. and free-range food i have seen nowhere near approaches 3X the cost of regular chicken.as for no money in making meat production humane, i don't think u r really considering what u r saying. there is a TON of money in things like that. the organic movement, green movement, etc has MANY niches that can be filled, and the public has made it clear that these issues do mean something to them."The fact is most americans, like me, don't give a damn how their meat is produced.." well, most americans don't give a damn about how their country is going down the sh*tter either. afterall, paris hilton just got release from jail!

[nutzbuster 7]

hmmm....steak something, really goodanimals.....something somethingnope, even i cant translate that

LOL...were you drunk?, or did you accidentally mix your meds?We were worried about you man!

[akoff 0]

hmmm....steak something, really goodanimals.....something somethingnope, even i cant translate that

Well said Chrozzo

[LongLiveYorke 38]

My point was that the natural life of animals is one of cruel survival of the fittest. Darwinism at it's finest.There is no justification for us to be cruel, but let's not pretend that if we stopped eating animals they would all gallop through meadows and die peacefully in their sleep.In order to protect our own humanity I would of course prefer animals are killed as humanely as possible. Like most cows, that are shot in the brain with a metal rod that kills them instantly.

This is basically correct and sums up my feelings. When done well and in moderation, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with eating some meat.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

never said a huge outcry wouldn't be needed. more people should be made aware of the conditions and suffering. have u watched the vid DN mentions? have u seen ANY footage of what goes on in slaughterhouses, not just what is supposed to occur, but the wanton cruelty by employees?and it is quite alarmist (and ridiculous)of u to suggest that chicken will triple in cost due to the fact they are humanely treated. all the org. and free-range food i have seen nowhere near approaches 3X the cost of regular chicken.as for no money in making meat production humane, i don't think u r really considering what u r saying. there is a TON of money in things like that. the organic movement, green movement, etc has MANY niches that can be filled, and the public has made it clear that these issues do mean something to them."The fact is most americans, like me, don't give a damn how their meat is produced.." well, most americans don't give a damn about how their country is going down the sh*tter either. afterall, paris hilton just got release from jail!

A) I wasn't literally trying to say how much the chicken would go up.. all I'm saying is it would go up and I don't want it to.B)A fringe portion of the public this means something, to the general public it means nothing.C) I don't think you understand what I'm saying about the money. Cheap meat production=higher profits. Expensive free range= reduced profits and higher cost of meat. The market drives meat production towards the cheapest possible production, so in order to do anything about this, a non-market force has to be applied towards the production of meat ( IE the green movement, animal rights, ect.). Wanna bet who has more money at their disposal, ConAgra or PETA? The Agricultural lobby is one of the strongest in the country. Crops get subsidized, and people are paid to plant nothing on their land as a manner of price support. These subsidies stay their despite their general unpopularity with the public in general because the Ag Lobby is enormous. There is a huge, a massive amount of money, along with a great deal of political power, to keep things at the status quo. If you want things to change, you're better of going at it from a demand route, IE organizing people to buy only organic and free range meat, in order to dry up the demand for cheap, industrially produced meat. But I wouldn't hold your breath on John Q Lunchbox wanting to pay more for his McChicken just so some chickens can roam free.D) Yes, I have watched the documentary, and I still don't care. Is it gruesome? Yes. Does it make me care about animal suffering? No. E) If I knew you personally, I'd give you 3-1 that no significant positive changes occur in the humaneness of the food production industry in the next 20 years.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

What was that.. me recommending using market forces rather than government intervention to effect change? I've been reading too many Balloon guy posts before I go to bed, I think I'm getting hypnotized.

[Miguel McHarris 0]

"The fact is most americans, like me, don't give a damn how their meat is produced.." well, most americans don't give a damn about how their country is going down the sh*tter either. afterall, paris hilton just got release from jail!

Because it an American problem, right? That fact is most Americans don't care, but it's much worse in other countries. Since this is a topic you're seemingly very interested in maybe you should look up the EU investigation into the Chinese and eastern European treatment of animals. Let me know if you've learned anything, I doubt it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Because it an American problem, right? That fact is most Americans don't care, but it's much worse in other countries. Since this is a topic you're seemingly very interested in maybe you should look up the EU investigation into the Chinese and eastern European treatment of animals. Let me know if you've learned anything, I doubt it.

Oh my god, why does everything have to be us verses them? What do the conditions of chinese food production got a fcking thing to do with anything? Can't people make criticisms about the way things happen in America without so freaking jag off saying " Oh yeah.. well, if you don't like it, try see how you like it in Katmandu! You and all your pinko friends outta move there!" While I personally don't agree with the OP and don't give 2 craps about the humanity of food production, I think it's perfectly valid of him to see something he finds objectionable in American and strive to make a positive ( in his mind) change in it.

[Miguel McHarris 0]

Oh my god, why does everything have to be us verses them? What do the conditions of chinese food production got a fcking thing to do with anything? Can't people make criticisms about the way things happen in America without so freaking jag off saying " Oh yeah.. well, if you don't like it, try see how you like it in Katmandu! You and all your pinko friends outta move there!" While I personally don't agree with the OP and don't give 2 craps about the humanity of food production, I think it's perfectly valid of him to see something he finds objectionable in American and strive to make a positive ( in his mind) change in it.

Thanks for generalizing my post into one gigantic ball of patriotism. In honor of that I'm going to fry up a NY strip and join the Marines tomorrow. C'mon the Paris Hilton comment in the same sentence as the animal rights plea? Gimme a break, he knew what he was doing when he said that and to save you the time and so you don't go off on another rant of rash generalizations, here goes *deep breath* not a Republican, against the war, pro choice, support gay marriage, against dooshey labeling.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Thanks for generalizing my post into one gigantic ball of patriotism. In honor of that I'm going to fry up a NY strip and join the Marines tomorrow. C'mon the Paris Hilton comment in the same sentence as the animal rights plea? Gimme a break, he knew what he was doing when he said that and to save you the time and so you don't go off on another rant of rash generalizations, here goes *deep breath* not a Republican, against the war, pro choice, support gay marriage, against dooshey labeling.

No, seriously.. what do the conditions of chinese food production have fck all to do with this conversation? Are you saying we should be trying to effect change in chinese food production, because it's worse there( because if effecting change in meat production in the US is hard, effecting it's change in China is next to impossible)? If not, what was the point you were trying to make?

[All_In 0]

Because it an American problem, right? That fact is most Americans don't care, but it's much worse in other countries. Since this is a topic you're seemingly very interested in maybe you should look up the EU investigation into the Chinese and eastern European treatment of animals. Let me know if you've learned anything, I doubt it.

some of u americans get so worked up. i was not the one who mentioned america first. i was simply replying to a post, and i used a quote from it. then i replied to it. basically referring to apathy, media, etc. i know that china is one of the worst offenders. they have cages housing black bears for their entire life, and they only have room to sit in one position, with the wire in constant contact. this is so that bile can be extracted through a tube in it's side. there are others, everywhere, so relax.btw, i love this justification..'ok, we are bad, but look at them!'