VernonME 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Villain is being extremely LAG and feels like giving away money, but here and there, shows a credible hand for his actions. Would you have called his turn push?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP ($77.95)Hero ($49.25)SB ($23.70)BB ($66.55)UTG ($40.10)Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB raises to $6.5, Hero raises to $15.5, SB folds, BB calls $9.Flop: ($31.50) 9, 7, 3(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB calls $12.Turn: ($55.50) 6(2 players)BB bets $39.55 (All-In), Hero calls $22.25 (All-In).River: ($117.30) 4(2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $117.30 Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 What is with the flop bet? Seriously? You need to bet about twice as much as you did on the flop, then the rest of the hand will play itself. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Villain is being extremely LAG and feels like giving away money, but here and there, shows a credible hand for his actions. Would you have called his turn push?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP ($77.95)Hero ($49.25)SB ($23.70)BB ($66.55)UTG ($40.10)Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB raises to $6.5, Hero raises to $15.5, SB folds, BB calls $9.Flop: ($31.50) 9, 7, 3(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB calls $12.Turn: ($55.50) 6(2 players)BB bets $39.55 (All-In), Hero calls $22.25 (All-In).River: ($117.30) 4(2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $117.30dude, if you're going to limp with Kings on the button because u want a little action, you should be shoveling when you do get it.once BB raises to 6. I shovel.or at least shovel the flop.No offence but this was so horrible from the start. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I dind't even see that he limped on the button.Don't push preflop. The preflop raise is fine, but NEVER NEVER NEVER limp on the button with KK unless you can see that one of the blinds has chips in his hand to raise you. Link to post Share on other sites
Omaha Hi/Lo 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 but NEVER NEVER NEVER limp on the button with KKYes... God forbid you disguise the strength of your hand SHORT HANDED, IN POSITION with DEEP STACKS... yeah, that would be stupid... unless you can see that one of the blinds has chips in his hand to raise you.The OP clearly said that the BB was playing super LAG... so limp-rasing is a very smart play vs. someone like this. Although, I do think the re-raise pre-flop should have been more... The flop bet should have been more aswell and then the turn would ha ve basically played itself. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Yes... God forbid you disguise the strength of your hand SHORT HANDED, IN POSITION with DEEP STACKS... yeah, that would be stupid...Or you could disguise your hand by properly raising hands weaker than KK on the button. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Or you could disguise your hand by properly raising hands weaker than KK on the button.lol.. I'm glad u got here 1st. and kept it so simple.lol button limps. thats worthy of eye rolling. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Or you could disguise your hand by properly raising hands weaker than KK on the button.Good to have surly Zach back. Link to post Share on other sites
VernonME 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 PF - Limping was a bit dangerous, but my read on this guy was pretty dead on, i was almost 90% sure he would raise huge to any limpersFlop - A bigger bet sounds good, but around how much?Turn - Since he flat called my $12 bet on the flop, and the turn came a club, would you still call his all in? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 You have to push that flop. Link to post Share on other sites
LimpyLoco 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Flop - A bigger bet sounds good, but around how much?Turn - Since he flat called my $12 bet on the flop, and the turn came a club, would you still call his all in?I think a proper post-flop bet should have been at least pot-seized... so around 30/40 bucks.If you're going to limp in with KK for value, you should consider that you already got your value since he bet, you raised and he called with a lesser good hand. Unless the flop doesn't look dangerous, you should push hard. I wouldn't have called his all in... When you called it - didn't you feel in your stomach, that he probably had it - but that you couldn't lay down KK, 'cuz he was sort of laggy.Unfortunately you allowed him to catch his flush' because of weak betting and so you should not have called his push. Sorry to say, mate :-) Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I may shovel pre-flop after the limp as it would be more apt to be done with an AQ/AK type of see all 5 cards hand rather than a big pair which might elicit a call from a LAG player who has something like 88 and is willing to gambool.But yeah, gotta shovel post-flop for sure, especially on a draw heavy one. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Given stack sizes, shove the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Why are people saying shove preflop? We want action and shoving will likely scare him away. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 PF - Limping was a bit dangerous, but my read on this guy was pretty dead on, i was almost 90% sure he would raise huge to any limpersFlop - A bigger bet sounds good, but around how much?Turn - Since he flat called my $12 bet on the flop, and the turn came a club, would you still call his all in?1. Good read, but as Acid said, I'd probably save this sort of risky play for live where you can pick up something to suggest he's definately going to raise.2. If the flop bet is bigger, just shove.3. I'd still be calling. If he's playing laggy he's pushing this flop with the club draw. It looks more like a desperation attempt to bluff the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Why are people saying shove preflop? We want action and shoving will likely scare him away.I'm just saying it's an option to consider as a limp/big push can give off an aura of an AK/AQ type of hand and might get called by a guy who's been spewing and may see something like 88 or whatnot as an opportunity to get it all in as a slight fave. Most likely I shove the flop though. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I'm just saying it's an option to consider as a limp/big push can give off an aura of an AK/AQ type of hand and might get called by a guy who's been spewing and may see something like 88 or whatnot as an opportunity to get it all in as a slight fave. Most likely I shove the flop though.I really just think that shoving $38 to win $6 when we have KK is really a big missed value opportunity. We can reraise to half our stack preflop and then just shove any flop. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I really just think that shoving $38 to win $6 when we have KK is really a big missed value opportunity. We can reraise to half our stack preflop and then just shove any flop.That's my line as well normally, I was just pointing out alternatives that were more read dependant...I've seen players in the villain seat call a pre-flop shove there after spewing a few buy-ins to try and even up with what they perceive as a race due to the reasons you stated. Link to post Share on other sites
Dogpatch 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Pre-flop... I'll trust your read and say good play. You nailed the guy with a tricky play, he fell for it.On the flop.... pot sized bet. But that will only leave you a few bucks so you might as well push.You've already gotten some value by the guy rasing you PF (like you knew he would), now is the time to make him pay for his mistake. (or the time for him to make a bad call and suck out, but so be it) Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Why are people saying shove preflop? We want action and shoving will likely scare him away.because if we raise preflop. our shove bet is rougly the pot anyways Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 because if we raise preflop. our shove bet is rougly the pot anywaysI was talking preflop. Shoving the flop is fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Webslinger516 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Yes... God forbid you disguise the strength of your hand SHORT HANDED, IN POSITION with DEEP STACKS... yeah, that would be stupid... Actually raising on the button would look a lot like a button steal and is still likely to get action. Especially from a LAG that may want to re-steal. I get very suspicious when a decent player limps on the button, and I'll likely just see a cheap flop from the blinds. Link to post Share on other sites
Dogpatch 2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 because if we raise preflop. our shove bet is rougly the pot anywaysDid you mean...because if we raise preflop. our pot bet is roughly a shove anyways ??? Link to post Share on other sites
VernonME 0 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 1. Good read, but as Acid said, I'd probably save this sort of risky play for live where you can pick up something to suggest he's definately going to raise.2. If the flop bet is bigger, just shove.3. I'd still be calling. If he's playing laggy he's pushing this flop with the club draw. It looks more like a desperation attempt to bluff the pot. Well the results are...... me winning! Yep, he held AhKh . I was thinking the exact same on the turn, he would have pushed the flop if he had any draw. Link to post Share on other sites
ElToasto 0 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Why are people saying shove preflop? We want action and shoving will likely scare him away.Where is Smash when you need him? Link to post Share on other sites
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