rivergirl 2 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 While reading another post, someone mentioned Tiger Woods being the World Champion of golf in reference to Greg Raymer being a World Champion of poker and this made me think:I think they should either change the "World Champion" title or restructure things. In the last 4 years of the WSOP virually unknowns have come crawling out of the woodwork to win the ME. I know they have all become professional players since their wins but only Raymer has actually proven himself to be a force (Hachem maybe but only because of his finish this year in the ME) Other than that, it seems like none of these guys are "top" pros and will probably never be.With that said.....The WSOP should be more like golf where you have to qualify to qualify to get into a major tourney...could you imagine if the Masters was opened to anyone who walked out on the first tee on the Thursday morning and paid whatever the entry fee was? Not saying that the top pros might not win it, but you would get alot of people you'd never heard of walking around with green jackets only to never hear from them again in a winning sense.I think the WSOP has to crown the "World Champion" in some sort of invite only tourney that proves that they have the skills to be a force in the professional poker world...not that they are some internet donk that got really good cards and got lucky for a week.FLAME ON!!! Link to post Share on other sites
triplec 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 But if we do that, how can I win next year? Link to post Share on other sites
chyukun 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 joe hachem has proven himself in his two other final tables besides his ME win Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I dont think you are going to get too many arguments here.To crown a world champion over the results of 1 tournament with 8000+ people is not a test of pure skill.I personally like the WSOP points leaderboard.Fact is most of the general public do not realize the WSOP is a series of tournaments, but just think its 1 tournament and they see the winner of that as the champion. People into poker or who follow it obviously know differently, but until you can change mass public opinion or perception then theres not really a whole lot that can be done.I still think the championship event should be the $50K Horse event with NLHE once its down to the final table. Link to post Share on other sites
DNIQUE420 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I agree u made some very good points. I really believe a pro will NEVER win the ME ever again. Everyday more kids turn 21, and they spend there life online playing poker, next years main event will be a table of no names and all the pros will be out before day 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I wonder how many threads we can get on this topic? Link to post Share on other sites
WVUCarter 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 While reading another post, someone mentioned Tiger Woods being the World Champion of golf in reference to Greg Raymer being a World Champion of poker and this made me think:I think they should either change the "World Champion" title or restructure things. In the last 4 years of the WSOP virually unknowns have come crawling out of the woodwork to win the ME. I know they have all become professional players since their wins but only Raymer has actually proven himself to be a force (Hachem maybe but only because of his finish this year in the ME) Other than that, it seems like none of these guys are "top" pros and will probably never be.With that said.....The WSOP should be more like golf where you have to qualify to qualify to get into a major tourney...could you imagine if the Masters was opened to anyone who walked out on the first tee on the Thursday morning and paid whatever the entry fee was? Not saying that the top pros might not win it, but you would get alot of people you'd never heard of walking around with green jackets only to never hear from them again in a winning sense.I think the WSOP has to crown the "World Champion" in some sort of invite only tourney that proves that they have the skills to be a force in the professional poker world...not that they are some internet donk that got really good cards and got lucky for a week.FLAME ON!!!You make some great points. The PPT is working towards this. Only qualified players who have EARNED their way onto the tour are allowed to play. Hopefully, the PPT will continue to grow and I think they're off to a great start.However, the winner of the ME deserves some recognition as he beat out thousands of players who all had the same opportunities as him. And no one honestly believes that just because someone won the ME they are the "best player in the world"I agree u made some very good points. I really believe a pro will NEVER win the ME ever again. Everyday more kids turn 21, and they spend there life online playing poker, next years main event will be a table of no names and all the pros will be out before day 3A pro will win the main event again. To think otherwise is crazy. They can (and are already doing so) adapt to the new style of poker. Link to post Share on other sites
chyukun 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 well for the sake of your prediction you better be rooting against allen cunningham. he is a top tier pro second in chips in THIS years main event. last year had matusow and the other years had dan harrington. i see what your saying but i think at least one pro youve heard of will make the final table nearly every year. Link to post Share on other sites
DNIQUE420 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 to add a comment Im really pissed with jamie gold I read his interview on espn and he is simply going to dump the main event because he doesn't want the fame...what a fag...he should just be blinded out and not allowed to play, hes made it very clear that he is not going to win the ME and that he wants 2nd place. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?...mp;lid=tab6pos3If a pro wins the ME in the next 5 years I will be shocked the last 3-4 years all new comers, who pay the lil fee to win a seat online then win the main event..besides the ME what has raymer won? Link to post Share on other sites
friareric 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 On the other hand, using the golf analogy, if the Master's tourney prize pool was based on the number of players who put up the entry fee, would not the pros want the greatest amount of "dead money" possible? Does Tiger say to himself, "gee, I'm so glad they kept the lousy golfers out of this tourney so now I have a shot?" Of course this isn't the "World Champion" of poker in the sense that the winner is the best poker player in the world... it does mean that the winner did in fact take down the largest and arguably the toughest tournament in the world (besting 8000 or so other players)... but in the end it is simply the largest and richest pro-am in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
meservery 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 uh... there is this guy named allen cunningham. 2nd in chips at the final table.he wins this thing he is the best hands down. and if any of these other guys at the FT can beat cunningham, I'd consider them world champs too. Link to post Share on other sites
Alina 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Why is there this underlying assumption a pro has to win the ME? Oh, because the best players should win. They are so good that they need to be protected against bad players. To paraphrase the great former world champion Phil Hellmuth: if it wasn't for the bad players I would win. It makes me laugh!I bet you DN would not say the ME is a crap shoot if he actually won. Link to post Share on other sites
DNIQUE420 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 allen cunningham yes he is at the final table, I want him to win so he can take the braclet and jamie gold can have his silver, since jamie doesn't want to win anyways why not give it to allen? Why is there this underlying assumption a pro has to win the ME? Oh, because the best players should win. They are so good that they need to be protected against bad players. To paraphrase the great former world champion Phil Hellmuth: if it wasn't for the bad players I would win. It makes me laugh!I bet you DN would not say the ME is a crap shoot if he actually won.Daniel can't win because hes not focused enough to win, he has to much other stuff going on to really be focused on playing his best for days in a row. DN (say what u want) proly on his best day can't win a big tourney, we all blame others when we fail, and he is no exception to the rule Link to post Share on other sites
alexruimy 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Hachem maybe but only because of his finish this year in the MECareful... Link to post Share on other sites
sloshr 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 With that said.....The WSOP should be more like golf where you have to qualify to qualify to get into a major tourney...could you imagine if the Masters was opened to anyone who walked out on the first tee on the Thursday morning and paid whatever the entry fee was? Not saying that the top pros might not win it, but you would get alot of people you'd never heard of walking around with green jackets only to never hear from them again in a winning sense.I think the WSOP has to crown the "World Champion" in some sort of invite only tourney that proves that they have the skills to be a force in the professional poker world...not that they are some internet donk that got really good cards and got lucky for a week.FLAME ON!!!If you make it so hard to qualify for the main event, there might just be 200 entries. This would lead to a $2M prize pool, with your "world champion" getting maybe $700K, or a lot less than many other tourneys. This would lead to a lot of the top players deciding it is not worth their time, spending good money to fight a bunch of other top players with not that great a prize. This would lead to maybe 125 players competing for even less. See where I'm going with this?Unless the money is put up by corporate sponsors, you need to allow everyone in. Your system would not work with the players supplying the prize pool. Link to post Share on other sites
sdnuol 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I think that the WSOPME and WPT Championship should each get more POY points than other tournaments and then have the CP POY be the nextel cup standings of poker to decide the world champ that year. Link to post Share on other sites
Alina 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Daniel can't win because hes not focused enough to win, he has to much other stuff going on to really be focused on playing his best for days in a row. DN (say what u want) proly on his best day can't win a big tourney, we all blame others when we fail, and he is no exception to the ruleYou're right. When he had a good year, it was down to his skill. But in the lean (poker winning) years that have followed it is down to various. Having said that, it was very entertaining after he came off his year long rush of good luck, he took on the heads up challenges at the Wynn and was schooled by Greenstein etc. Reading his blog was salutary, because basically he was a man on tilt, losing focus, but rationalising his denial of being outplayed night after night. Most people at every level goes through a form of this. Still good luck to him. He got lucky, banked a fortune and can now wile away his days playing golf with of course a bit of poker for fun rounded off with the odd win. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The analogy to golf is horrible. No matter how good 99.99% of golfers play, they will not beat Tiger or Phil at Augusta. The .01% that can are playing in the tournament.Why does everybody care about this? It does not freakin matter if the WSOP Main Event champ is a big name pro or not. Even if you go back in time, many of the Main Event champs aren't big pros. When Chris Ferguson won, he wasn't a big name pro. What happened to Noel Furlong? The big pros didn't always win before the Moneymaker boom. Link to post Share on other sites
Dratj 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 With that said.....The WSOP should be more like golf where you have to qualify to qualify to get into a major tourney...could you imagine if the Masters was opened to anyone who walked out on the first tee on the Thursday morning and paid whatever the entry fee was? Not saying that the top pros might not win it, but you would get alot of people you'd never heard of walking around with green jackets only to never hear from them again in a winning sense.There is no way some random guy can win the Masters even if they let him play. There is very little luck involved in golf. Link to post Share on other sites
Alina 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 There is no way some random guy can win the Masters even if they let him play. There is very little luck involved in golf.Here here. Poker (unlike golf or any other decent competitive activity) is a game of luck. Might as well get excited about the best lottery player. Link to post Share on other sites
JaxxVain 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 How about making the ME a rebuy event?That way the Pros could rebuy and the internet qualifiers would get weeded out.Maybe start with 50k in chips instead of 10k also.The Pros would be able to fade more suckouts and the like with an increased starting stack and the potential to rebuy.It would still be a huge field as long as all the internet sites are qualifying players, so it would not deter the joe schmo's who qualify online, it would just be harder for them to win it all. Link to post Share on other sites
meservery 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Daniel can't win because hes not focused enough to win, he has to much other stuff going on to really be focused on playing his best for days in a row. DN (say what u want) proly on his best day can't win a big tourney, we all blame others when we fail, and he is no exception to the rulelol. right. cause we didnt just witness negreanu battle his a$$ off with a short stack for half the main event to finish 229th out of 8700?!? yeah, that doesnt take focus... Link to post Share on other sites
DNIQUE420 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Daniel can't win because hes not focused enough to win, he has to much other stuff going on to really be focused on playing his best for days in a row. DN (say what u want) proly on his best day can't win a big tourney, we all blame others when we fail, and he is no exception to the ruleYou're right. When he had a good year, it was down to his skill. But in the lean (poker winning) years that have followed it is down to various. Having said that, it was very entertaining after he came off his year long rush of good luck, he took on the heads up challenges at the Wynn and was schooled by Greenstein etc. Reading his blog was salutary, because basically he was a man on tilt, losing focus, but rationalising his denial of being outplayed night after night. Most people at every level goes through a form of this. Still good luck to him. He got lucky, banked a fortune and can now wile away his days playing golf with of course a bit of poker for fun rounded off with the odd win.well said when daniel gets back to being focused on poker he will be very tough...in the mean time hes a struggling pro poker player turn golf freak Link to post Share on other sites
Dratj 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here here. Poker (unlike golf or any other decent competitive activity) is a game of luck. Might as well get excited about the best lottery player.Ummm, I was responding to the OP who compared golf to poker. I agree with you to a certain extent but there is obviously some skill involved in poker whereas there is none in the lottery. Luck can help the poor players as they somtimes still have outs when they get the money in with a worse hand. All of what I said is quite obvious, I don't why there is any argument about this at all. Link to post Share on other sites
DNIQUE420 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 lol. right. cause we didnt just witness negreanu battle his a$$ off with a short stack for half the main event to finish 229th out of 8700?!? yeah, that doesnt take focus...1 guy in the main event said on espn "Force, heading into the second-to-last day with $2.2 million in chips, has been one of the most conservative players in the entire field and as he admitted, he only played four hands past the flop to lead him out of Day 2 and get him to the final 27" daniel admited he was playing 90 percent of all hands he was in if you play 90 of all hands in any tourney 2 things will happen either do well for awhile and bust out, or win and daniel busted Link to post Share on other sites
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