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Palin Plays The Bill Ayers Card


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This is the stuff I really find detestable about politics today - it's such an absurd non issue and yet there she is trying to hammer it homeObama doesn't really have ties to Ayers, but I seriously doubt Palin has any idea who the weather underground were and what they did - much less the fact that most didn't serve much time because of the Government's illegal COINTEL program that was designed to end dissentIt also uses the same Canard that unless you chant USA USA mindlessly every second of the day that you aren't patriotic - true patriots have open minds and are willing to say when something their country does concerns themCNN) -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on Saturday slammed Sen. Barack Obama's political relationship with a former anti-war radical, accusing him of associating "with terrorists who targeted their own country." Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin lashed out at Sen. Barack Obama's ties to controversial figure William Ayers. Palin's attack delivered on the McCain campaign's announcement that it would step up attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate with just a month left before the November general election."This is not a man who sees America as you and I do: as the greatest force for good in the world," Palin said at a fundraising event in Colorado, according to a statement released by the McCain-Palin campaign. "This is someone who sees American as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country."----Palin cited an article in Saturday's New York Times about Obama's relationship with Ayers, now 63. But that article concluded that "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The National Review, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.

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This is the stuff I really find detestable about politics today - it's such an absurd non issue and yet there she is trying to hammer it homeObama doesn't really have ties to Ayers, but I seriously doubt Palin has any idea who the weather underground were and what they did - much less the fact that most didn't serve much time because of the Government's illegal COINTEL program that was designed to end dissent
You could NOT be more wrong about thisIf you take the Obama campaign at its word, the contention that there is a relationship between Bill Ayers and Barack Obama is “phony,” “tenuous,” a “stretch.” In Obama’s own words, Ayers was “just a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” certainly not a long time close political ally. But a review of just the publicly known highlights of the Ayers-Obama relationship suggests a twenty year pattern of connections between the two. At the heart of this “Top Ten” list is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers founded and Obama and Ayers co-chaired for five years, raising and spending at least $110 million in an effort to bolster a “radical” (Ayers’ word) reform program in the Chicago Public Schools from 1994 to 2001. 1) Out of the Woods: The Woods Fund financed the hiring of Obama in 1985 by the Developing Communities Project. According to The Nation: “The Woods Fund, in many ways, is responsible for helping start Obama as an organizer and shaping his political identity. In 1985 the foundation gave a $25,000 grant to the Developing Communities Project (aka the “DCP”), which hired Obama, at 24, as an organizer on Chicago’s economically depressed South Side.”The Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family which owned the Illinois-based Sahara Coal Company, a major supplier of coal from its mines to major Illinois power companies. Commonwealth Edison, the giant Chicago-based electric power company was headed by Thomas Ayers, father of Bill Ayers.Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today. He chaired the board for two years during that time. 2) Know your ABCs: Obama’s DCP supported radical school reform project together with Bill Ayers. In 1987 in the wake of a controversial strike by the Chicago Teachers’ Union, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools, or ABCs, was formed to lobby for a new Illinois law that would mandate the establishment of a new power center in Chicago public schools. Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.Bill Ayers helped organize the ABCs group, was its contact person and later its chair. Barack Obama worked on school reform efforts for the DCP at that time and the DCP was a member of the ABCs. Chicago United, a business group established by Tom Ayers, Bill’s father, was also a member of the ABCs.The Woods Fund also provided additional financial support to the DCP in 1988 to support its school reform efforts. A program officer of the Woods Fund at the time was Ken Rolling who would later be hired by Bill Ayers and Barack Obama as Executive Director of the $110 million Chicago Annenberg Challenge. 3) Putting on the White Shoe: Obama and Dohrn worked for elite law firm Sidley and AustinAfter surfacing from the Weather Underground in 1980 Bernardine Dohrn, wife of Bill Ayers, pled guilty to criminal charges related to the violent Days of Rage in Chicago in 1969 and received three years probation. She later refused to testify in front of a grand jury convened to investigate a bank robbery carried out by former comrades of Dohrn’s from the Weather Underground. Currently a clinical faculty member at Northwestern University School of Law, she told the New York Times that she thought grand juries were “illegal” and “coercive.” She served seven months in jail. Because of the criminal convictions Dohrn, who received a law degree from the University of Chicago in 1967, was refused admission to the New York bar. Nonetheless, she was hired as a legal clerk by Sidley and Austin, a major Chicago law firm, in their New York office in 1984. Howard Trienens, then managing partner of the firm, recently told the Chicago Tribune that he arranged the hiring of Dohrn as a favor to his fellow Northwestern University trustee and classmate, Tom Ayers. Tom Ayers’ firm, Commonwealth Edison, has used Sidley as outside counsel for many years. She later worked in their Chicago office when she and Bill Ayers moved back to Chicago in 1987. She left Sidley in 1988.Barack Obama left Chicago in the fall of 1988 to attend Harvard Law School. In the summer after his first year at Harvard he became an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin. 4) A hard rock miner: Chicago lefty lawyer and Dohrn classmate Judson Miner hires Barack Obama out of Harvard.Barack Obama returned to Harvard after his summer at Sidley and Austin in the fall of 1989. That fall he was elected the president of the Harvard Law Review, the first black person to hold the position. Although Obama could have returned to Sidley or perhaps clerked for the United States Supreme Court, a natural step for Law Review officers, he chose instead to work for Judson Miner, a partner in a small civil rights law firm in Chicago. Miner had been counsel to Chicago’s late black mayor, Harold Washington. Miner was also classmates with Bernardine Dohrn at the University of Chicago law school in 1967 where they were both were involved in anti-war activity. 5) Rising to the Challenge: Ayers is named Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge founded by Bill AyersIn late 1993, Bill Ayers, now an associate professor of education at the University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus, organized a team to put together a grant proposal to secure nearly $50 million from the Annenberg Challenge. The money was to be used by Ayers and co. to bolster the radical Local School Councils reform project that Ayers and Obama had championed back in 1988 through the ABCs.The grant application was successful and in early 1995 Barack Obama was named chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Ayers was named co-chair of the Challenge’s operative and strategic body, the Chicago School Reform Collaborative. Ayers and Obama work together for the next five years on raising an additional $60 million in matching money from local foundations and corporations and using the money to intervene in the governance of the Chicago public schools.The Challenge through a multi-million dollar Leadership Development Initiative intervened in the School Council elections in the middle of what was known as the Chicago School Wars. At the same time Chicago Mayor Richard Daley was pushing, successfully, to gut the power of the Councils. 6) In the Palmer of his hand: Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn host Obama’s state senate kick-off in their Hyde Park homeIn the fall of 1995 Barack Obama began his first electoral campaign to replace State Senator Alice Palmer who was attempting to run for Congress. Palmer accompanied Obama to the Hyde Park home of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn for an introduction of Obama to the Hyde Park left. Unnamed Obama campaign aides told the New York Times that this was the first time that Obama met Ayers and Dohrn, part of the campaign’s effort to minimize the relationship between their candidate and the two authoritarian leftists. Of course that was wrong, as clearly Obama and Ayers had already met well before this “meet and greet.” 7) The “lost years”: Ayers and Obama to the rescue of troubled youthIn 1997 Bill Ayers published a book that criticized the treatment of juvenile defendants in the criminal justice system including the practice in some states of trying these individuals as adults. Barack Obama praised the book as a “searing and timely account” in the Chicago Tribune. In late 1997 and 1998 a bill to impose “blended” sentencing on certain juvenile offenders was proposed in the Illinois legislature where Obama was now a state senator, representing the south side Chicago district that included Ayers and Dohrn’s Hyde Park neighborhood. The bill would have allowed parallel juvenile and adult sentences with the adult sentence held as a threat to be imposed if serious offenders violated terms of their juvenile conviction.Obama, Dohrn and Ayers opposed the bill. Michelle Obama, now working at the University of Chicago in Hyde Park, organized a panel discussion there in late 1997 as the new bill was gaining momentum, to discuss Ayers’ book. Barack Obama and Ayers were on the panel and Obama was described in the event’s press release as ”working to block proposed legislation that would throw more juvenile offenders into the adult system.” #8 The “R” word: Obama advisor promotes a reparations approach to education reform; Ayers endorses itIn 2006 Professor Gloria Ladson-Billings of the University of Wisconsin, the then president of the American Education Research Association (AERA), the nation’s leading School of Education professional association, proposed a new policy to tackle the problems of America’s public schools: the repayment of centuries of “education debt” that allegedly is owed to people of color as a result of slavery and discrimination. She rooted the concept in the literature supporting reparations for slavery.In 2007 Linda Darling-Hammond, a prominent and respected professor at the Stanford University School of Education, endorsed the same idea in an article in The Nation. In late 2007 Darling-Hammond was named an education advisor to the Obama campaign. In February 2008 Darling-Hammond issued a blueprint for education reform by the next President that set as its #1 priority the repayment of the “education debt,” as proposed originally by Ladson-Billings.Bill Ayers has endorsed the idea of repayment of the “education debt.” Ayers is now a Vice President-elect (Division B: Curriculum Studies) of the AERA. A chapter called “Education for Democracy” by Darling-Hammond appeared in a volume co-edited by Ayers called A Light in Dark Times. A chapter co-authored by Ladson-Billings on “racing justice” appeared in a book co-edited by Ayers called Teaching for Social Justice: A Democracy and Education Reader. Ladson-Billings wrote the foreword to Ayers’ book, To Teach: The Journey of a Teacher. Ayers and Ladson-Billings are co-editors of City Kids, City Schools: More Reports from the Front Row just published. Ladson-Billings contributed a chapter in a book edited by Bill Ayers, Rick Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn and Jesse L. Jackson called Zero Tolerance: Resisting the Drive for Punishment published in 2001. More fundamentally, Bill Ayers introduced the concept of “white supremacy” as America’s original sin within the new left group SDS as part of his effort, together with his future wife Bernardine Dohrn, to hijack the student-led antiwar movement for his still-to-come terrorist actions as a leader of the Weather Underground.Ayers argues that the fundamental issue in American life is “white skin privilege” - that white Americans benefit from being white at the expense of blacks.Ayers himself wrote on his website in a January 19, 2008 essay on school reform:“The dominant narrative in contemporary school reform is once again focused on exclusion and disadvantage, race and class, black and white. ‘Across the US,’ the National Governor’s Association declared in 2005, ‘a gap in academic achievement persists between minority and disadvantaged students and their white counterparts.’ This is the commonly referenced and popularly understood ‘racial achievement gap,’ and it drives education policy at every level. Interestingly, whether heartfelt or self-satisfied, the narrative never mentions the monster in the room: white supremacy….Gloria Ladson-Billings upends all of this with an elegant reversal: there is no achievement gap, she argues, but actually a glancing reflection of something deeper and more profound—America has a profound education debt. The educational inequities that began with the annihilation of native peoples and the enslavement of Africans, the conquest of the continent and the importation of both free labor and serfs, transformed into apartheid education, something anemic, inferior, inadequate, and oppressive. Over decades and centuries the debt has accumulated and is passed from generation to generation, and it continues to grow and pile up.”Obama has several times during the campaign suggested that the kind of reparations he is for is increased spending on education. 9) A toast to the maoist: Bill Ayers long time comrade Mike Klonsky blogs for ObamaOne of Bill Ayers’ and Bernardine Dohrn’s comrades in the late 60s Students for a Democratic Society was Mike Klonsky. When Dohrn and Ayers moved in one direction toward the violent tactics of the Weather Underground, Klonsky, in the wake of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, dropped the pro-Russian communist politics of his parents and became a committed Maoist. As leader of the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) in 1977 he travelled to Beijing and was toasted by the senior Beijing leadership.When the crazy left of the 70s died in the 80s, Klonsky went to graduate school in education in Florida and then moved to Chicago. While driving a cab there he was recruited by his old friend Bill Ayers to head up a new project called the Small Schools Workshop in 1991. It’s offices were in the Department of Education building at the University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus where Ayers taught. In 1995 the newly formed Chicago Annenberg Challenge headed by Ayers and Obama gave the Workshop a grant of $175,000. The Annenberg Challenge also had its office space in the same building as Ayers Department and the Workshop, rent free courtesy of the University.In 2008 Klonsky ran a blog on the official Obama campaign website on education policy and “social justice” teaching. When discussion of the Klonsky blog emerged in the blogosphere, it was promptly shut down by the campaign and all of the posts made by Klonsky were removed from the site.10) The Great Debate: George v. Barack There is little publicly available information on the precise relationship between Obama and Ayers today. I have been told by Linda Darling-Hammond that Ayers does not have any role in the campaign, although I do wonder how Ayers’ buddy Mike Klonsky could blog on the Obama website unless Ayers had a hand in it. Obama himself did not exactly eliminate any doubts on this score when asked about his relationship with Ayers during a debate with Hilary Clinton by George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. Obama said that Ayers was a professor of English (not Education) and was just a guy who lives in his neighborhood. Well, clearly not “just,” as we now know. But then Obama said that he does not exchange ideas with Ayers “on a regular basis.” Whatever that is supposed to mean (they debate the future of the world on an “irregular basis”?) it certainly fails to put the issue to rest.
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For those that do not know Who is William Ayers?Ayers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang", Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.The groups Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Between the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS."During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more extreme over the year [1969]", former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001 (who refers to the Weathermen's activity as "craziness"). Before this time, Ayers had become a roommate of and strong influence on Terry Robbins, who was two years younger and "came to idolize him", Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected "Education Secretary".Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot.The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[(The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.Built yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan.Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, thought that Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, were probably the two most authoritative people within the organization. Years undergroundIn 1970 he "went underground" with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, in which Weatherman member Ted Gold, Ayers' close friend Terry Robbins, and Ayers' girlfriend, Oughton, were killed when a nail bomb (an anti-personnel device) they were building exploded. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.[Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days. Because of a water leak caused by the Pentagon bombing, aerial bombardments during the Vietnam War had to be halted for several days. Ayers writes:Although the bomb that rocked the Pentagon was itsy-bitsy - weighing close to two pounds - it caused 'tens of thousands of dollars' of damage. The operation cost under $500, and no one was killed or even hurt. In that same time, the Pentagon spent tens of millions of dollars and dropped tens of thousands of pounds of explosives on Viet Nam, killing or wounding thousands of human beings, causing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage.

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Uh, so Ayers supports reforming schools and supports Obama - who cares?I'm guessing that the use of the word "radical" in that post is purposely predjudicial and misleading - plus what was the source of all that spewing you left it outIf you look into the Weather Underground - there is an excellant documentary about them - you'll see a bunch of pretty intelligent passionate people who probably who were caught up in extraordinary times - I don't support what they did, but what they government was doing at the time (read about COINTELPRO) was infinitely worseThe guy was punished and he's turned his life and passions into more useful pursuitsLet's say that Obama and him sat down and talked about politics often - that's fine with me - if you can't sit down and discuss issues with anyone and learn from them - even if it's Jesse Helms - you are a closed minded doltI seriously doubt that Obama has secret "radical" ideologies that he will spring on us This is typical scare tactics and hyperbole from a desperate campaign and I suspect you know it

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For those that do not know Who is William Ayers?Ayers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang", Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.The groups Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Between the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS."During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more extreme over the year [1969]", former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001 (who refers to the Weathermen's activity as "craziness"). Before this time, Ayers had become a roommate of and strong influence on Terry Robbins, who was two years younger and "came to idolize him", Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected "Education Secretary".Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot.The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[(The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.Built yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan.Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, thought that Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, were probably the two most authoritative people within the organization. Years undergroundIn 1970 he "went underground" with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, in which Weatherman member Ted Gold, Ayers' close friend Terry Robbins, and Ayers' girlfriend, Oughton, were killed when a nail bomb (an anti-personnel device) they were building exploded. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.[Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days. Because of a water leak caused by the Pentagon bombing, aerial bombardments during the Vietnam War had to be halted for several days. Ayers writes:Although the bomb that rocked the Pentagon was itsy-bitsy - weighing close to two pounds - it caused 'tens of thousands of dollars' of damage. The operation cost under $500, and no one was killed or even hurt. In that same time, the Pentagon spent tens of millions of dollars and dropped tens of thousands of pounds of explosives on Viet Nam, killing or wounding thousands of human beings, causing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage.
You conveniently left out that they always called in advance to make sure no one was hurt and that the only people the weather underground killed were themselves during an accidentit's a pretty complex story and if you read about them - they all sacrificed what could have been pretty cushy lives for things they believed in - had they been promoting right wing causes you'd be calling them freedom fighters - Had they been in South America Reagan would have been sending them moneythis still doesn't mean however that Obama's ties to them are anything to be concerned about - and the trumpeting by the right is nothing but obvious scare tactics
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This is the stuff I really find detestable about politics today - it's such an absurd non issue and yet there she is trying to hammer it homeObama doesn't really have ties to Ayers, but I seriously doubt Palin has any idea who the weather underground were and what they did - much less the fact that most didn't serve much time because of the Government's illegal COINTEL program that was designed to end dissentIt also uses the same Canard that unless you chant USA USA mindlessly every second of the day that you aren't patriotic - true patriots have open minds and are willing to say when something their country does concerns themCNN) -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on Saturday slammed Sen. Barack Obama's political relationship with a former anti-war radical, accusing him of associating "with terrorists who targeted their own country." Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin lashed out at Sen. Barack Obama's ties to controversial figure William Ayers. Palin's attack delivered on the McCain campaign's announcement that it would step up attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate with just a month left before the November general election."This is not a man who sees America as you and I do: as the greatest force for good in the world," Palin said at a fundraising event in Colorado, according to a statement released by the McCain-Palin campaign. "This is someone who sees American as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country."----Palin cited an article in Saturday's New York Times about Obama's relationship with Ayers, now 63. But that article concluded that "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The National Review, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.
How in the world can you say this is a non-issue? This guy absolutely hates this country, and he wholeheartedly supports Obama. Does it not bother you at all that Obama has associations with Rezco, Frank Raines, Bill Ayers, Jerimiah Wright, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, Countrywide, ACORN, the very corrupt Chicago political machine. I have come to understand that you are definately a diehard Obama fan, but come on, this is an issue and any other candadate campaign would have been dead with these associations. The MSM's white guilt is the only thing that has kept Obama alive in this campaign. (Well Obama has run a strong campaign, but with little interference from the media).
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You conveniently left out that they always called in advance to make sure no one was hurt and that the only people the weather underground killed were themselves during an accidentit's a pretty complex story and if you read about them - they all sacrificed what could have been pretty cushy lives for things they believed in - had they been promoting right wing causes you'd be calling them freedom fighters - Had they been in South America Reagan would have been sending them moneythis still doesn't mean however that Obama's ties to them are anything to be concerned about - and the trumpeting by the right is nothing but obvious scare tactics
LOL, it is ok to bomb the building if you call ahead...This goes to Obama's judgement, The man running for leader of the free world should not be associating with this man in any capacity. And the fact that the MSM never reported it is appauling.From the New York Times on 9/11”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.Not only does he have no regrets, he would consider doing it all over again. This is the man that Obama chose to aid in realizing his own political ambitions:
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You conveniently left out that they always called in advance to make sure no one was hurt and that the only people the weather underground killed were themselves during an accident
what the hell does that have to do with anything?Let me guarantee you one thing....if JSM had hung out with someone who skated for bombing an abortion clinic, you wouldnt be saying no big deal. You havent been around that long, so probably havent seen my prior posts, but I was a 60s radical. I partied with WU, and Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman in the Village. The WU was in large part responsbile for the Kent State shootings, which what led directly to me turning reactionary and enlisting. Their association with and support for the Black Panthers led directly to many other deaths.The WU was a typically vile radical organization, a bunch of basically good kids looking to get high and get laid, turned by a small group of idealogoues into killers.
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Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The National Review, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.
The Washington Post, Time magazine, and the Chicago Sun-Times, and The New Yorker are all working very hard to get Obama elected. I read the National Review online everyday and they don't share the view that the Obama - Ayers Relationship is as passive as the Obama campaign is trying to make it out to be. This all will eventually come out.
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How in the world can you say this is a non-issue? This guy absolutely hates this country, and he wholeheartedly supports Obama. Does it not bother you at all that Obama has associations with Rezco, Frank Raines, Bill Ayers, Jerimiah Wright, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, Countrywide, ACORN, the very corrupt Chicago political machine. I have come to understand that you are definately a diehard Obama fan, but come on, this is an issue and any other candadate campaign would have been dead with these associations. The MSM's white guilt is the only thing that has kept Obama alive in this campaign. (Well Obama has run a strong campaign, but with little interference from the media).
There's a huge difference between hating ones country and hating the things that they are doing in the world. Going around and finding the most heinous person that supports a candidate is stupid - McCain had plenty of times with Jerry Falwall - I'm not going to out and out not vote for him because of itPoliticians have a ton of associations - they have to their politicians and they need to build support - Do you honestly think that Obama has these secret belief's that he is going to reveal upon election?Judge him on what he says and believesAs for white guilt - there's plenty of valid reasons for it - read about Fred Hampton, read about COINTELPRO, read about the Tuskegee experiment, read about the phone tapping of MLK, read about the CIA"s involvement in the death of Malcolm XLook I read things from both sides - I'm liberal I admit it - but I know when people are blowing things out of proportion and trying to scare people because they are falling in the polls
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JSM is running out of time.. It needs to be brung up in the debate and everyday on the stump until it makes nbc,cbs,abc nightly news

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what the hell does that have to do with anything?Let me guarantee you one thing....if JSM had hung out with someone who skated for bombing an abortion clinic, you wouldnt be saying no big deal.
You mean dudes like Jerry Falwell?On "Meet the Press" yesterday, Sen. John McCain flip-flopped. There's no other way to describe his newfound respect for the Rev. Jerry Falwell, whom McCain once lumped in with Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan as an "agent of intolerance" in American politics. McCain told NBC's Tim Russert that since making those statements he has spoken to Falwell and the two "agreed to disagree on certain issues and we agreed to move forward." (You can see a clip from the interview on Video Dog.) McCain now plans to speak at Falwell's Liberty University (Go Fightin' Flames!), and when asked if he still considers the reverend an agent of intolerance, he said, "No, I don't." It was as plain as any political reversal in recent memory -- McCain might as well have jumped on a windsurfing board and insisted that he actually liked Falwell before he hated him.
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Look I read things from both sides - I'm liberal I admit it - but I know when people are blowing things out of proportion and trying to scare people because they are falling in the polls
Associating with a known terrorist is and always has been an automatic disqualifier for my presidential candidate..The he knows tons of people argument is bogus
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Associating with a known terrorist is and always has been an automatic disqualifier for my presidential candidate..The he knows tons of people argument is bogus
Sure better to just fund them secretly like Ronald Reagan didI don't support what Ayers did but in order to understand him you have to understand the timesRead about Fred Hampton, Read about COINTELPRO - I thought all those NRA people want guns to support themselves when the government gets out of control - the government was out of control
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LoL, I love it! The McBush/Quaylin camp is VERY desperate now.All McCain is doing is destroying his reputation as a decent politician. This stunt didn't work in the primaries, it's not going to work now.

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There's a huge difference between hating ones country and hating the things that they are doing in the world. Going around and finding the most heinous person that supports a candidate is stupid - McCain had plenty of times with Jerry Falwall - I'm not going to out and out not vote for him because of itPoliticians have a ton of associations - they have to their politicians and they need to build support - Do you honestly think that Obama has these secret belief's that he is going to reveal upon election?Judge him on what he says and believesAs for white guilt - there's plenty of valid reasons for it - read about Fred Hampton, read about COINTELPRO, read about the Tuskegee experiment, read about the phone tapping of MLK, read about the CIA"s involvement in the death of Malcolm XLook I read things from both sides - I'm liberal I admit it - but I know when people are blowing things out of proportion and trying to scare people because they are falling in the polls
There are a shitload of white people(and a lot of republicans) that were outraged at the racism and fought hard, without trying to kill anybody, to push for civil rights and equal justice for all people. I have read about all of those things, but I have also read about the Weather Underground and there tactics were worse than any of those you mentioned above. This group attracted criminals that were looking for an excuse to do absolutely anything they wanted. Many could care less about "the cause".
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I've actually fallen into their trap by defending Ayers at all just because I think those were interesting timesto me the real issue is the way people try to debate issues by finding the most radical or stupid person on the other side and hammering away at them it's really prevelant and on both sides - I'd lump Bill Maher's new movie in that category - so I admit it goes on by both sides

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what the hell does that have to do with anything?Let me guarantee you one thing....if JSM had hung out with someone who skated for bombing an abortion clinic, you wouldnt be saying no big deal. You havent been around that long, so probably havent seen my prior posts, but I was a 60s radical. I partied with WU, and Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman in the Village. The WU was in large part responsbile for the Kent State shootings, which what led directly to me turning reactionary and enlisting. Their association with and support for the Black Panthers led directly to many other deaths.The WU was a typically vile radical organization, a bunch of basically good kids looking to get high and get laid, turned by a small group of idealogoues into killers.
Aha!! Copernicus the terrorist supports John McCain!! McCain must also hate our country! Quick, make a commercial!
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Associating with a known terrorist is and always has been an automatic disqualifier for my presidential candidate..The he knows tons of people argument is bogus
this is SUCH a stretch. If he was really considered an active threat he would be arrested. He is a known FORMER sorta terrorist (there is a difference between his goals and the goals of real terrorists....the intended body count for instance) who know seems to have dedicated his life to better pursuits. People can change and obviously Ayers has to a large degree. This also ignores that Ayers "terrorism" occurred while Obama was in grade school and that they are merely in the same very large circle not best friends. I dont think Ayers will be influencing policy.I dont find Obama's tenuous and limited connection to a former Weatherman any more offensive than McCain's flip flop on Jerry Falwell.....a man who hates his country so much that he told us we brought 9/11 on ourselves for not treating gay people worse.I mean the guy is a Professor at a prestigious university now. This is a really desperate move that could backfire badly. If the Dems can paint them as trying to brush the economy to the side with "more of the same" negative politics it will really blow up in McCain/Palin's face (even withstanding the fact that Obama has had plenty of attack ads).
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I mean the guy is a Professor at a prestigious university now.
So is Ward Churchill (or was?) So is Noam Chomsky. If a Professorship at a prestigious university is your criteria for someone youd want your POTUS associating with, youre fighting a losing battle.
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