Am I Nuts Or Is Understandable

[Roberts2003 0]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($430.70)Button ($103.20)Preflop: Hero is BB with T, J. Button calls $1, Hero raises to $8, Button calls $4.Flop: ($14) 8, A, 7(2 players)Hero bets $8, Button calls $8.Turn: ($30) 2(2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.River: ($30) 7(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero calls $20.Final Pot: $70the way the action was going, he would not limp with any ace or pocket pair. i was pretty certain he had a straight draw, and i have the nut straight draw haha. therefore i called. anyone like it?

[NEtwowilldo 0]

No no my friend, we do not like it.Raise if you think he is weak, you are not Stu Ungar.

[Sefaje 0]

very very very read dependent. if you say he's not limping any Ace or pp, then you've gotta worry about a 7 or an 8 in his hand. And he got confident once the other 7 came out. so once again, this depends on how often you think he has a 7 here. there are a lot of combinations of straight draws here, 56,69,T9 plus any gutters he'd have called with. it's hard for a forum to answer questions like this about HU hands because reads are so crucial. but since you think you're ahead and you have a reason to make this play, I don't have a problem with it. It's much much much better than the other hand where you decided your opponent had the nut flush for no reason.

[irishguy 14]

No no my friend, we do not like it.Raise if you think he is weak, you are not Stu Ungar.

Raise the river??????? And what do we do if he pushes? As the way the hand played out what do we expect to fold to river check raise here? If villain is at all competent he should be calling a reasonble c/r w K high etc. IMO with our flop/turn play we haven't set anything up to show believable great strength for a c/r to make sense. As played I think the call is very reasonable.

[Zach6668 513]

Raise the river??????? And what do we do if he pushes? As the way the hand played out what do we expect to fold to river check raise here? If villain is at all competent he should be calling a reasonble c/r w K high etc. IMO with our flop/turn play we haven't set anything up to show believable great strength for a c/r to make sense. As played I think the call is very reasonable.

Yeah, raising is pretty tough on the river given stack sizes. He's only got about $70 left after his river bet, so any raise is for his whole stack effectively, so you'd have to be pretty sure he'll fold. If we raise to like $60, it'd just be weird to fold for $30 more. Any other raise gives him too good of odds if he has a small pair or whatever. I'm all over the place, but I think I made my point.

[Acid_Knight 2]

It's hard for people to intelligently comment on HU strategy becuase we're not watching the match, where each hand is extremely dependant on the ones that came before it.If you think he's got a striaght draw, then calling with J high is fine.I'm assuming that you won and that's why you posted.Even if you "think" he doesnt' limp with Ax or a pocket pair, doesn't mean that he didn't. It also doesn't mean that he doesn't have 89 or 67 here. In a vaccuum, the play is questionable. If you have reasons for doing ti based on the player, that's fine.

[linkwood 0]

Isn't this kind of the same play Doyle Brunson did against Johnny Moss, except it was K high instead of A high? Thought I saw that on one of those ESPN "Best Hand I Ever Played". Anyways, that said, I agree with others, if you have a read go with it. You ask if we like it, the answer is "maybe".

[cMcMonkey 0]

I don't like it for the same reason I don't like a few of the other hands you posted. It's impossible for us to comment in detail on your read for the reasons AK gave, but even without any other info I can say that short of some remarkable info, you are chronically putting too narrow a range on your opponent. When you're right it maximizes your edge, but when you're wrong you will be losing a whole lot more between lost bets and putting in too much in -EV situations where your read had you ahead.A couple of times now you've posted hands, sometimes defending your actions (after asking for comments) and then posted results which just so happened to match up with your original thought. Its hard to have a strategic conversation when every hand you post is a "special case" where you have a amazing read that no one can question due to the nature of the HU match. All we can do is point out what the usual action would be, which is often much different than what you've done b/c of your read. You see the problem?If you're that sure of your reads, then why ask for comments (obv if you're sure he has a lower str8 draw here you call).

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Isn't this kind of the same play Doyle Brunson did against Johnny Moss, except it was K high instead of A high? Thought I saw that on one of those ESPN "Best Hand I Ever Played". Anyways, that said, I agree with others, if you have a read go with it. You ask if we like it, the answer is "maybe".

It was against Johnny Moss and he called with the same hand, and he was right, Johnny had a lower straight draw. In fact he actually called with one player still to act behind him, and Doyle was smart enough to realize that that player had to flop TP, no kicker since Doyle called. In fact that's exactly what I thought of when I read this post. So originally I said raise, but if you think he missed his draw, I like leading out and bluffing yourself a hell of a lot more than I like check/calling with Jack high. Call me crazy.

[Zach6668 513]

So originally I said raise, but if you think he missed his draw, I like leading out and bluffing yourself a hell of a lot more than I like check/calling with Jack high. Call me crazy.

Well, that's theoretically not correct *if* we know he has a smaller straight draw. I know what you are saying about leading, but our read is smaller straight draw, so betting has zero value, while c/c'ing has the ability to pick off a river bluff, ie value.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Well, that's theoretically not correct *if* we know he has a smaller straight draw. I know what you are saying about leading, but our read is smaller straight draw, so betting has zero value, while c/c'ing has the ability to pick off a river bluff, ie value.

That's still an Ungar-like read that I don't know whether or not I believe we are capable of making, especially online against a player we are unfamiliar with. Leading is much safer IMO.

[Roberts2003 0]

That's still an Ungar-like read that I don't know whether or not I believe we are capable of making, especially online against a player we are unfamiliar with. Leading is much safer IMO.

results are that i called and he had 10 6.and by the way, this has nothing to do with my thread, but i genuinely feel if Stu Ungar played now, he would get destroyed in any high stakes tough cash game. if he ever got top pair cracked he would lose his stack.

[bdc30 0]

results are that i called and he had 10 6.and by the way, this has nothing to do with my thread, but i genuinely feel if Stu Ungar played now, he would get destroyed in any high stakes tough cash game. if he ever got top pair cracked he would lose his stack.

Are you just going through your hh's and finding these weird hands and posting them to make yourself look like a champ? If so, please tp/mm. (and knock it off)

[Roberts2003 0]

Are you just going through your hh's and finding these weird hands and posting them to make yourself look like a champ? If so, please tp/mm. (and knock it off)

No, I posted this hand to see if anyone else had the same line of thinking. why would i care what i look like to people i dont know? i also posted a hand where i had JJ and donk stacked off at 400NL heads up in an 800$ pot. i sense some sort of bitterness, although i dunno why.

[Naismith 0]

No, I posted this hand to see if anyone else had the same line of thinking. why would i care what i look like to people i dont know? i also posted a hand where i had JJ and donk stacked off at 400NL heads up in an 800$ pot. i sense some sort of bitterness, although i dunno why.

The problem is, we have no way of answering this one. This is 100 percent read based. Knowing that, as I'm sure you do, that makes this a complete brag thread.When I posted my threads about qualifying for the WSOP twice in two nights, I included important strategy questions because I wouldn't ever want to make a brag thread. The fact that I qualified, not once, but twice for the biggest poker tournament in history was secondary to the important strategic queries.

[Roberts2003 0]

The problem is, we have no way of answering this one. This is 100 percent read based. Knowing that, as I'm sure you do, that makes this a complete brag thread.When I posted my threads about qualifying for the WSOP twice in two nights, I included important strategy questions because I wouldn't ever want to make a brag thread. The fact that I qualified, not once, but twice for the biggest poker tournament in history was secondary to the important strategic queries.

heads up in general is way more read based then a tournament qualifier. therefore, your questions seem more like strategic queries because you are going against people you dont no or have limited playing with, and hand ranges become much more important. i posted this because i wanted to see if anyone agreed with the line of thinking that i had. how is that not a strategic query??

[danau 0]

I think you missed some sarcasm

[Naismith 0]

heads up in general is way more read based then a tournament qualifier. therefore, your questions seem more like strategic queries because you are going against people you dont no or have limited playing with, and hand ranges become much more important. i posted this because i wanted to see if anyone agreed with the line of thinking that i had. how is that not a strategic query??

When I posted on consecutive days about impressively and improbably navigating my way through two different tournaments -- in fact, two different KINDS of tournaments, a shootout and a super -- I did so not to brag about me, a cash game player, defying the odds with impeccable play to qualify not just once, but twice in 24 hours to play in the World Series of Poker in this, the two-thousand and seventh year of our Lord. My threads were humble -- despite my not-quite-modest feats -- requests for strategic advice from people I had (apparently mistakenly) assumed were superior to me in tournament play. Yes, they happened to also highlight a dominating and impressive run, the likes of which hadn't been seen since Greg Raymer's back-to-back Main Event performances, but the purpose of these threads was to cultivate the knowledge of the great poker elite that gather at Full Contact Poker and possibly give these greats the opportunity to sit at the feet of Tournament Naismith and absorb my own wisdom through the hand histories I provided that displayed beyond a shadow of a doubt the one, true correct way to play poker.In your hand here, there is no possible way any of us can answer it unless we were at the table or have notes on the specific player. All I can say is, "This looks like spewing but it's 100 percent read-based so I can almost literally offer nothing of substance to this due to having no information on the player." That's all any of us can say except for Acid because he'll say the same thing, eventually get frustrated and make a mean-spirited post that makes me chuckle. The reason I'm calling this thread a brag thread is because I know that you're good enough to know that this hand is entirely read-based and not strategy-based. There isn't a strategy thread/book out there that's going to suggest calling with J-high. The only way you ever call in this situation is with a fantastic read and how would anyone on this message board be able to talk with any kind of actual insight into that in this specific instance?To summarize:My threads were all about proper strategy (and my absolute and flawless execution of said strategy). - STRATEGY POSTYour thread was all about bragging about a good call. - BRAG POST

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

No, I posted this hand to see if anyone else had the same line of thinking. why would i care what i look like to people i dont know?

So you care about our line of thinking, but don't care what we think?