Random Hockey Observations

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Players rarely fight just because they are mad.

Strategy is a huge part of sports. Fighting is often used as a strategy.

 

Your a proponent of fighting in hockey then? I just don't get this frankly. I have heard the arguments for years about policing each other and momentum, and all of it sounds hollow to me.

 

I can never understand the argument that fighting is a necessity of hockey, when no one fights in the best hockey games I have ever watched. (NHL playoffs, Olympics, World Cups...)

[digitalmonkey 929]

 

 

Your a proponent of fighting in hockey then? I just don't get this frankly. I have heard the arguments for years about policing each other and momentum, and all of it sounds hollow to me.

 

I can never understand the argument that fighting is a necessity of hockey, when no one fights in the best hockey games I have ever watched. (NHL playoffs, Olympics, World Cups...)

 

I'm a proponent of playing to win within the rules of the game. I wouldn't miss fighting if they removed it from the game, but right now it's part of the game.

 

And if you're claiming that a fight can't change the momentum of a game then, frankly, you're just wrong. Like it or not, it can.

[ajs510 122]

I would miss fighting if it was removed from the game. When the game is getting stagnant and boring, a good fight is the only thing other than a goal that can really inject some energy back into it. Happened on Sunday when I was at the Sabres-Pens game...the crowd was totally out of it until Cody McCormick and Tanner Glass went at it, and they were buzzing the rest of the game after that.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I think lots of things can change momentum in a game and I think sometimes fighting can hurt your momentum too.

If it's such a game changer, then why not use the strategy in the playoffs?

 

I don't have an issue with fighting as much as I do with designated fighters.

 

Also, what I hate most about fighting and policing each other is that it is taking out bit by bit one of my favourite parts of the game, the big legal hit. Now, any big hit is met with the obligatory fight and guys who want to hit but not exchange punches don't hit anyone.

 

Take out fighting, I wouldn't miss it at all. Frankly, I usually change the channel once the goons get going. But the other night watching Toews and Thornton was cool.

[mrdannyg 274]

McCormick held up because he would hope anyone (ex/ Glass) would do that same if he were in the same situation with his jersey over his head while in a fight.

 

Players rarely fight just because they are mad.

 

Strategy is a huge part of sports. Fighting is often used as a strategy.

 

I don't think fighting should be used as strategy. If teams are looking for momentum or to get an edge, you'd hope they could get that by, you know, playing hockey. Maybe get some aggressive forechecks in, look for some big (legal) hits instead of brushing off them. Sending out one giant to punch another giant seems a weird and non-hockey way to get a team to play better hockey (though I fully acknowledge that is how it works now, and that it often does work).

 

 

Your a proponent of fighting in hockey then? I just don't get this frankly. I have heard the arguments for years about policing each other and momentum, and all of it sounds hollow to me.

 

I can never understand the argument that fighting is a necessity of hockey, when no one fights in the best hockey games I have ever watched. (NHL playoffs, Olympics, World Cups...)

 

You must not watch or play hockey.

[mrdannyg 274]

I think lots of things can change momentum in a game and I think sometimes fighting can hurt your momentum too.

If it's such a game changer, then why not use the strategy in the playoffs?

 

I don't have an issue with fighting as much as I do with designated fighters.

 

Also, what I hate most about fighting and policing each other is that it is taking out bit by bit one of my favourite parts of the game, the big legal hit. Now, any big hit is met with the obligatory fight and guys who want to hit but not exchange punches don't hit anyone.

 

Take out fighting, I wouldn't miss it at all. Frankly, I usually change the channel once the goons get going. But the other night watching Toews and Thornton was cool.

 

I like your point on the playoffs. I also agree that fighting doesn't need to be completely removed from the game - if guys who play more than 4 minutes a game want to fight, I'm fine with that.

 

And mostly, I agree that it is not nearly the momentum-changer it is sometimes referred to as. Narratives are a huge part of sports, and we are always trying to 'tell stories' to account for normal variations. Yes, sometimes a team will come out harder or score after a fight, but there's also plenty of times it does nothing. How much is it really "changing momentum?" I know I never watch hockey so I would have no idea, but it definitely seems like one of those things that is overstated.

[serge 904]

Under the category of NHL records that will probably never be broken:

 

Longest continuous shutout by a goaltender: Alec Connell, 461 minutes, 29 seconds (7 gms, 2 pds) (1927–28)

[serge 904]

Your a proponent of fighting in hockey then? I just don't get this frankly. I have heard the arguments for years about policing each other and momentum, and all of it sounds hollow to me.

 

I can never understand the argument that fighting is a necessity of hockey, when no one fights in the best hockey games I have ever watched. (NHL playoffs, Olympics, World Cups...)

 

I think we need to separate fighting into 2 separate issues..I totally agree with what you are saying...All the big games they dont have fighting and its great hockey...Its still tough, there is still hitting...And I dont think there are more stick swinging incidents, and star players getting attacked in the playoffs more than usual.

 

The stage fighting in hockey needs to leave...Its stupid, boorish, WWE like and has no part in the game...When star players fight, who arent goons, its a part of the game...It happens and its real..Even that I can do without , but I get both sides of the argument..

 

This is coming from a fan of the team that leads the NHL in fighting majors..Its pretty interesting the discrepancy..

 

The Leafs lead the league in fighting majors with 17, Edmonton is last with 2..Only 2

 

I dont see a corelation with success with teams with more fighting majors, but its helped the Leafs IMO.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I dont see a corelation with success with teams with more fighting majors, but its helped the Leafs IMO.

 

no sarcasm.....how?

 

I mean, I get they are better now, but where is the coorelation?

you watch the games more then me, would Kadri not be playing this well if it wasnt for the guys who fight on his team? Are they somehow helping Reimer or Scrivens?

[serge 904]

no sarcasm.....how?

 

I mean, I get they are better now, but where is the coorelation?

you watch the games more then me, would Kadri not be playing this well if it wasnt for the guys who fight on his team? Are they somehow helping Reimer or Scrivens?

 

Its a good question..Its hard to quantify, but I think what Burke was trying to do all along with a "truculence" is coming to fruition...He always said he wanted his team not to be a pushover, and wanted teams to worry about playing the Leafs..Because it was going to be tough, physical battle...Its not just the fighting, but the team leads the league in hits...It creates an overall better defense and allows more space for guys like Kadri, Frattin and Kessel(yes he only has 3 goals, but he is getting more chances than last year)

 

 

Now how important is leading the league in hits? Well the best team in the NHL, is last in hits, so thats something else to consider..But then again, we dont have Toews,Kane,Sharp and Hossa.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

great point you bring up about hits, I was going to add that maybe it is guys like Komarov creating space and tiring out the opposition D. I gotta believe in this shortened season, having a guy who keeps hitting their players gets you somewhere by the 3rd period.

 

wow, didnt think Chicago would be last in hits. I wonder how much the actual home ice stats skew that.....maybe Hawks guy doesnt give them out liberally.

[Zach6668 513]

I think lots of things can change momentum in a game and I think sometimes fighting can hurt your momentum too.

If it's such a game changer, then why not use the strategy in the playoffs?

 

I don't get this argument, because it IS used in the playoffs. Best example is Talbot/Carcillo from the 09 playoffs. Pens were down 3-0, came back to win the game 5-3 and the series that night.

 

Having said that, no, you don't see Colton Orr vs John Scott in the playoffs, but I'd argue that pure good fights are useless in the regular season too.

 

Guys like Glass (and probably McCormick, just not sure) are useful hockey players, and Glass will see a regular 4th line shift in the playoffs, unlike Steve MacIntyre or Eric Godard of years past in Pittsburgh.

 

Remember Iginla/Lecavalier in the finals a few years ago? Thornton against Kesler last year? Malkin and Zetterburg had a "fight" (neither actually got majors) in the 09 finals.

 

Sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's tempers overflowing in an intense game between competitive players, etc.

 

I think it has a place in hockey.

 

Having said that, I'm not always watching when a fight happens. I don't go out of my way to watch it intently. I stand up at the rink if one happens, if the people in front of me do, but otherwise I don't care that much. I'd rather watch skating and passing than a fight, but it has a place in the game, IMHO.

 

I just don't care for the goons who play 2-3 minutes a game just to fight their counterpart on the other team. They're completely useless, their fights are generally so out of context that they have no effect on momentum or anything anyways.

[serge 904]

I wonder if a team ever started the season 7-0 followed by 7 straight losses..

 

Whats up San Jose?

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I don't get this argument, because it IS used in the playoffs. Best example is Talbot/Carcillo from the 09 playoffs. Pens were down 3-0, came back to win the game 5-3 and the series that night.

 

Having said that, no, you don't see Colton Orr vs John Scott in the playoffs, but I'd argue that pure good fights are useless in the regular season too.

 

Guys like Glass (and probably McCormick, just not sure) are useful hockey players, and Glass will see a regular 4th line shift in the playoffs, unlike Steve MacIntyre or Eric Godard of years past in Pittsburgh.

 

Remember Iginla/Lecavalier in the finals a few years ago? Thornton against Kesler last year? Malkin and Zetterburg had a "fight" (neither actually got majors) in the 09 finals.

 

Sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's tempers overflowing in an intense game between competitive players, etc.

 

I think it has a place in hockey.

 

Having said that, I'm not always watching when a fight happens. I don't go out of my way to watch it intently. I stand up at the rink if one happens, if the people in front of me do, but otherwise I don't care that much. I'd rather watch skating and passing than a fight, but it has a place in the game, IMHO.

 

I just don't care for the goons who play 2-3 minutes a game just to fight their counterpart on the other team. They're completely useless, their fights are generally so out of context that they have no effect on momentum or anything anyways.

 

I think your missing my point of me being against staged fighting when goons go at the fight we all see coming, vs what I call "real" players fighting.

You managed to pull out 5 examples of fights in like the last 8 years of playoffs. Again I ask, if its such a great strategy, why dont more teams use it more often? If its a good strategy, teams should be using it at least once a series, if not every game they are down by 1/2 goals.

 

To be honest, I thought it was awesome when Iginla+Lecavalier fought. I recall being at ESPNzone in Vegas at that moment watching the game, and the whole place was in shock that these guys were fighting, it was great.

 

Im not against a true spur of the moment, heated fight. I dont like it, but I can live with it. Im completely against lets line up Orr and lets lineup Godard, and let them go. That isnt hockey for me.

 

also, who is the most successful franchise in your hockey lifetime? Ill bet for most of us, its Detroit. How many fighters can you name on that team in the last 15years? How many fights do you think they have had?

 

I have an open mind to it, but Im just not seeing how it begets success, and how its at all necessary to play the game. I can see how it could affect momentum, but much more so when someone you do not expect it from does it, then when your goon beats up their goon. Thornton fighting Toews last week is a good example of when I could see each of their bench saying "hey, our leader is putting himself on the line for us, lets go!". If two goons had had that fight, who cares?

[Zach6668 513]

I think you and I are likely on the same page.

 

I only listed 5 fights because I was going purely by memory, and with no research at all.

 

I agree that two goons are useless, and your point is clear on that respect, and I agree with it. If they won't play in the playoffs, then why do they have these guys in the regular season? They don't deter dirty play or anything, IMO.

[Dubey 1,035]

My opinion:

 

if X = the percieved importance of fighting by the public and hockey media, with how it relates to a team's ability to win a game

 

then 0.05X = the actual importance of fighting in hockey, with how it relates to a team's ability to win a game.

[mrdannyg 274]

I don't get this argument, because it IS used in the playoffs. Best example is Talbot/Carcillo from the 09 playoffs. Pens were down 3-0, came back to win the game 5-3 and the series that night.

 

Having said that, no, you don't see Colton Orr vs John Scott in the playoffs, but I'd argue that pure good fights are useless in the regular season too.

 

Guys like Glass (and probably McCormick, just not sure) are useful hockey players, and Glass will see a regular 4th line shift in the playoffs, unlike Steve MacIntyre or Eric Godard of years past in Pittsburgh.

 

Remember Iginla/Lecavalier in the finals a few years ago? Thornton against Kesler last year? Malkin and Zetterburg had a "fight" (neither actually got majors) in the 09 finals.

 

Sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's tempers overflowing in an intense game between competitive players, etc.

 

I think it has a place in hockey.

 

Having said that, I'm not always watching when a fight happens. I don't go out of my way to watch it intently. I stand up at the rink if one happens, if the people in front of me do, but otherwise I don't care that much. I'd rather watch skating and passing than a fight, but it has a place in the game, IMHO.

 

I just don't care for the goons who play 2-3 minutes a game just to fight their counterpart on the other team. They're completely useless, their fights are generally so out of context that they have no effect on momentum or anything anyways.

My opinion:

 

if X = the percieved importance of fighting by the public and hockey media, with how it relates to a team's ability to win a game

 

then 0.05X = the actual importance of fighting in hockey, with how it relates to a team's ability to win a game.

 

I agree with pretty much everything from you both. Thanks for saying it better (shorter) than me.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

This is Ryan O'Reilly's Father's Twitter account.

 

He is umm, well decide for yourself

 

https://twitter.com/coachbri1

[GWCGWC 83]

I do not like that guy.

[ajs510 122]

This is Ryan O'Reilly's Father's Twitter account.

 

He is umm, well decide for yourself

 

https://twitter.com/coachbri1

 

He's like a Scientology posterboy.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

[Fenxis 99]

This is Ryan O'Reilly's Father's Twitter account.

 

He is umm, well decide for yourself

 

https://twitter.com/coachbri1

 

From his tweets on the 14th sounds like he has a mental illness that he's not taking medication for ..

[mrdannyg 274]

His bio: Performance Coach Team Relationship Builder

Motivation Internal Psychology Quality Coaching

 

and this post: dyslexia is a bummer oh well bigger problems in life I will od my tesb to be better.

 

Would suggest to me it is a parody account. It's not, I don't think, but that's how ridiculous those things are.

[mrdannyg 274]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNAaGyBUMo

 

He has plays that no one else in the league makes...and he makes it look easy.

 

I can't figure out how to re-write that sentence without it looking like I have the vocabulary of a 6-year old.

[digitalmonkey 929]

His bio: Performance Coach Team Relationship Builder

Motivation Internal Psychology Quality Coaching

 

and this post: dyslexia is a bummer oh well bigger problems in life I will od my tesb to be better.

 

Would suggest to me it is a parody account. It's not, I don't think, but that's how ridiculous those things are.

 

I bet you don't have dyslexia. I bet you've never had dyslexia.