Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Weak PF raise out of position by me aside, how do we proceed?PokerStars Game #8362256371: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/02/09 - 21:34:11 (ET)Table 'Bodea' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: sche0576 ($24 in chips) Seat 2: Cypher19 ($21.05 in chips) Seat 3: shortseller6 ($10 in chips) Seat 4: johnl44 ($24.85 in chips) Seat 5: G_M Bluth ($28.70 in chips) Seat 6: RobberMike66 ($8.85 in chips) Seat 7: MyBigPickle ($23.15 in chips) Seat 9: Money022 ($55.25 in chips) RobberMike66: posts small blind $0.10MyBigPickle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Money022 [Js Jd]Money022: raises $0.50 to $0.75sche0576: folds Cypher19: raises $1.25 to $2shortseller6: folds johnl44: folds G_M Bluth: folds RobberMike66: folds MyBigPickle: folds Money022: calls $1.25*** FLOP *** [Qs As Kc]Money022: checks Cypher19: bets $1Money022: ??? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hero calls. Villain will be ahead with two pair or a set too often for this to be worth raising. Link to post Share on other sites
Devilkin 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hero calls. Villain will be ahead with two pair or a set too often for this to be worth raising.I disagree . . raise or fold. What are you hoping to hit with your call? A ten to possibly split the pot, a J that can still lose to someone playing JTs.I have better places to put my money that with fourth pair.Dev Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 I might also add that I've been playing pretty aggressive and been reraising a lot of bets. Any chance he's baiting me here? Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hero folds. Villain will be ahead with ANY pair too often for this to be worth putting any more $ in.-fyp Link to post Share on other sites
Devilkin 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I might also add that I've been playing pretty aggressive and been reraising a lot of bets. Any chance he's baiting me here?Sure .. especially if you appear to be playing loose. Opponents tend not to respect your raises as much. I still have no desire to stay in this hand. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The preflop raise is fine. Fold the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Personally, I like to raise more PF, to at least .90-1.25. This is weird because he bet 1.00 into a 4.35 pot. But what does he reraise with PF that you beat? TT maybe? I think he wants a call. I fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Wasp 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 if you chose not to lead flop, then check fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Altruist 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Personally, I like to raise more PF, to at least .90-1.25.That was my first thought. I hate seeing a flop with that hand. Your raise looked more like A,A than J,J from UTG.... Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Thanks for the feedback everyone. I actually flipped things around a bit to see if anyone would see the $1 bet as a way to bait an aggressive player into bluffing with a very scary board. This is the actual hand.PokerStars Game #8362256371: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/02/09 - 21:34:11 (ET)Table 'Bodea' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: sche0576 ($24 in chips) Seat 2: Money022 ($21.05 in chips) Seat 3: shortseller6 ($10 in chips) Seat 4: johnl44 ($24.85 in chips) Seat 5: G_M Bluth ($28.70 in chips) Seat 6: RobberMike66 ($8.85 in chips) Seat 7: MyBigPickle ($23.15 in chips) Seat 9: Cypher19 ($55.25 in chips) RobberMike66: posts small blind $0.10MyBigPickle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Money022 [Kd Ad]Cypher19: raises $0.50 to $0.75sche0576: folds Money022: raises $1.25 to $2shortseller6: folds johnl44: folds G_M Bluth: folds RobberMike66: folds MyBigPickle: folds Cypher19: calls $1.25*** FLOP *** [Qs As Kc]Cypher19: checks Money022: bets $1Cypher19: calls $1*** TURN *** [Qs As Kc] [Qh]Cypher19: checks Money022: bets $3Cypher19: folds Money022 collected $6.05 from potI wasn't sure what hand to assign myself in order to warrant the early PF raise and justify continuing.The villian in the hand was one I had gone heads up against at least a half dozen times since joining the table. The first hand we locked up in, he made a reraise against a PP of mine which forced me to fold, then made some comments leading me to believe I had been bluffed. After that hand I had constantly played back and him and forced him to fold every time. I led for a $1 here to hopefully induce a bluff. Obviously it didn't work.I wanted to get feedback and see if anyone here would suggest reraising at a weak bet. My intentions would have been to put in a big reraise if he took the bait. From your responses I can see it wasn't a worthwhile play and I should have made a standard bet on the flop.Feel free to pick me apart now. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Ok, somehow I read our hand as KsJs. Go figure. ISARHH. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Ok, somehow I read our hand as KsJs. Go figure. ISARHH.It was. I changed it before anyone replied because I couldn't figure out what hand to assign myself. I'm a donk either way. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 It was. I changed it before anyone replied because I couldn't figure out what hand to assign myself. I'm a donk either way. Convert your hands you donk. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 It was. I changed it before anyone replied because I couldn't figure out what hand to assign myself. I'm a donk either way. Good, it means I'm not going crazy. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 That was my first thought. I hate seeing a flop with that hand. Your raise looked more like A,A than J,J from UTG....If his raised looked like JJ, would that be a good thing?I know Harrington & Sklansky like to vary bet sizes on hand strength. I think it's a mistake against opponents that we'll see more than once. Link to post Share on other sites
Garn 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 HELLO!!!! runner runner royal flush draw. PUSH Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Convert your hands you donk. I know, I know. I had this posted before your housekeeping thread. It won't happen again. Link to post Share on other sites
eroc824 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 If his raised looked like JJ, would that be a good thing?I know Harrington & Sklansky like to vary bet sizes on hand strength. I think it's a mistake against opponents that we'll see more than once.Think it means to vary bet sizes with the same hand. Ex. I will standard raise AA and then sometimes overbet/smallball this hand. As long as you continue to throw different bets with your hands its a good strategy. IF however you're gonna bet less with big pairs or more with big pairs, and then bet standard with everything else and this is your set play.....then its a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_536 3 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 If his raised looked like JJ, would that be a good thing?I know Harrington & Sklansky like to vary bet sizes on hand strength. I think it's a mistake against opponents that we'll see more than once.AgreedThink it means to vary bet sizes with the same hand. Ex. I will standard raise AA and then sometimes overbet/smallball this hand. As long as you continue to throw different bets with your hands its a good strategy. IF however you're gonna bet less with big pairs or more with big pairs, and then bet standard with everything else and this is your set play.....then its a mistake.AgreedI agree with Chris Ferguson on this one...It's just as tricky to raise the exact same amount every time, regardless of your hand. 3x + 1 per limper in front is pretty much the standard I use. It's easy to remember, easy to figure out, and you don't have to remember if this is the 20% of the time you limp with QQ from MP2... Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I agree with Chris Ferguson on this one...Against bad players I disagree somewhat. It is an attempt at optimal strategy, but it is unexploitive (pretty much by definition). Against poor players you should aim to exploit in any way you can if they are unlikely to adapt. That won't usually affect your preflop raise too much though. When I have AA/KK I might raise to 4xbb or 5xbb rather than 3xbb to build a larger pot, and if there is a player who will call almost any raise with any two suited cards I will raise different amounts or limp in based on my own hand strength. Those are rare exceptions though.Oh, and Chris Ferguson pwnz. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Weak PF raise out of position by me aside, how do we proceed?PokerStars Game #8362256371: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/02/09 - 21:34:11 (ET)Table 'Bodea' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: sche0576 ($24 in chips) Seat 2: Cypher19 ($21.05 in chips) Seat 3: shortseller6 ($10 in chips) Seat 4: johnl44 ($24.85 in chips) Seat 5: G_M Bluth ($28.70 in chips) Seat 6: RobberMike66 ($8.85 in chips) Seat 7: MyBigPickle ($23.15 in chips) Seat 9: Money022 ($55.25 in chips) RobberMike66: posts small blind $0.10MyBigPickle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Money022 [Js Jd]Money022: raises $0.50 to $0.75sche0576: folds Cypher19: raises $1.25 to $2shortseller6: folds johnl44: folds G_M Bluth: folds RobberMike66: folds MyBigPickle: folds Money022: calls $1.25*** FLOP *** [Qs As Kc]Money022: checks Cypher19: bets $1Money022: ???You're drawing to two clean outs. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 You're drawing to two clean outs.ummm which two are those??? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 ummm which two are those???The non-flush tens or, I guess, running jacks. The point is that I don't have a whole lotta faith that we can construct a winning hand out of this mess. Not saying it doesn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites
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