Finishing Tournaments

[GambleToWin 0]

Lately I have played in many MTT's. I have done very well and made it deep to like the final 20/15% of the field for every tourney. I'm always right around average stack or above, but I never seem to make any big cashes. I always end up losing a key coinflip or 60-40 that would put me in great position to make a huge cash. Is this just variance or is there something Im doing wrong? Does anyone else have this problem of not being able to finish tourneys?

[Ukosumu 0]

Lately I have played in many MTT's. I have done very well and made it deep to like the final 20/15% of the field for every tourney. I'm always right around average stack or above, but I never seem to make any big cashes. I always end up losing a key coinflip or 60-40 that would put me in great position to make a huge cash. Is this just variance or is there something Im doing wrong? Does anyone else have this problem of not being able to finish tourneys?

I really would like to hear the responses to this as well.

[Actuary 3]

with all that detail, someone will surely give you the answer you need

[Sea Wasp 0]

Your post is kind of vague and without knowing what you are doing wrong it is kind of hard to try to give you any helpful answers. i suggest posting your 5 last bust out hands with any reads or history with villians and we can give you some feedback or whehether or not you are doing something wrong or if it is just varience.

[chrozzo 19]

with all that detail, someone will surely give you the answer you need

sw?lol

[Actuary 3]

sw?lol

yeah, I find it's a lot simpler than this....

Your post is kind of vague and without knowing what you are doing wrong it is kind of hard to try to give you any helpful answers. i suggest posting your 5 last bust out hands with any reads or history with villians and we can give you some feedback or whehether or not you are doing something wrong or if it is just varience.

[GambleToWin 0]

with all that detail, someone will surely give you the answer you need

ur funny. What kind of detail do you need? Ok an ex. of what keeps happening: I have 9K late in a tourney Avg. stack is around 8.5K Blinds were 200/400 I raise w/ KsJs in the cutoff and get one caller in the BB. Flop comes Jc 7h 3c. He bets around 1600 and I raised to 4000. He moves all in for my last 4K. I thought for a while and called. He turns over 10c7c. Turn Blank River club. That woulda put me 3rd in chips at 20K but instead i lose a coinflip and I go busto in 82. That type of scenario seems like its happening alot.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

ur funny. What kind of detail do you need? Ok an ex. of what keeps happening: I have 9K late in a tourney Avg. stack is around 8.5K Blinds were 200/400 I raise w/ KsJs in the cutoff and get one caller in the BB. Flop comes Jc 7h 3c. He bets around 1600 and I raised to 4000. He moves all in for my last 4K. I thought for a while and called. He turns over 10c7c. Turn Blank River club. That woulda put me 3rd in chips at 20K but instead i lose a coinflip and I go busto in 82. That type of scenario seems like its happening alot.

IMO, that is a hand you should of won, but I try to avoid scenereos like that late in MTTs. Some people stay agressive and some passive, but I would of guess that he had a flush, and a decent chance to win, which he did. Just my .02

[offset 0]

Is this just variance or is there something Im doing wrong?

Yes to both. I say that because everyone has holes in their games. You likely are either playing too tight or too loose as the tournament progresses. In most cases, people tighten up once they cash or get deep, which is the opposite of what they should do. When the tournament is going well for you, a large portion of your chips should be from blind steals. If you rely on good hands to play your stack will dwindle and you will be forced to flip coins for all of your chips. You say you seem to be losing coinflips at crucial moments, which makes me believe that you are playing too tight. PMJackson21 posted a hand history of a tournament he won in the tournament strategy section. He is one of the best online players, and his post should give good perspective for how loose you should play in the later stages. Also, you need good variance to make it deep after cashing. Not only do you need to win coinflips, but you also need your good hands to hold up, and you need to avoid cooler situations. Your problem is probably due to a combination of variance and play. Hope this helps.

[Actuary 3]

ur funny. What kind of detail do you need?

you might want to take advantage of our tourney strategy forum.post hands, w/o resultsMTT's have tons of varianceeventually you'll learn how to play so you'll know when it's just bad luck and when you are playing sub-optimal

[grocery_mony 8]

ur funny. What kind of detail do you need? Ok an ex. of what keeps happening: I have 9K late in a tourney Avg. stack is around 8.5K Blinds were 200/400 I raise w/ KsJs in the cutoff and get one caller in the BB. Flop comes Jc 7h 3c. He bets around 1600 and I raised to 4000. He moves all in for my last 4K. I thought for a while and called. He turns over 10c7c. Turn Blank River club. That woulda put me 3rd in chips at 20K but instead i lose a coinflip and I go busto in 82. That type of scenario seems like its happening alot.

no nothing you can do there. must just be a run of bad luck.

[offset 0]

IMO, that is a hand you should of won, but I try to avoid scenereos like that late in MTTs. Some people stay agressive and some passive, but I would of guess that he had a flush, and a decent chance to win, which he did. Just my .02

Folding there would be ridiculously stupid.

[Jam-Fly 8]

play like me. rly CRAZY

[kmak 0]

There is a HUGE difference in ability between the top 20% of players in a tournament and the top 2%. Just because you can get to the top 20% doesn't mean you are just "one fix" away from consistently cashing.

[scottyno 0]

don't get all in with AA vs 88 like I just did, they'll make an 8 high straight

[ianb459 0]

Read Harrington vol 2.. that is allAlso, if your playing flips late.... its better if you are PUSHING and not CALLING...this is general advice, but can help

[GambleToWin 0]

Thanks for the help guys. In the beginning I thought I might not get any helpful answers, but I actually did. To top things off for me this week I got outdrawn in the 25K guaranteed last night. 1183 signed up it was down to just under 400 with 180 being the cash mark. Blinds were 80 160. I opened up from middle position with 99 and got a LAG call from the button. He was def. the most aggressive player with the biggest stack betting every flop that was checked to him. The flop comes 9 10 J rainbow. In most scenarios here I should bet with bottom set on a dangerous board, but I checked because I was sure he would put with or without and hand. At this point Im at 5.5K just above average. So like I said I check to him and he bets 600 which is half the pot. At this point I know I have the best hand, but I figured he might be on a draw so I made it 2000 which leaves me with 2700 left in my stack. He insta pushes all in. I was pretty sure he didn't have 1010 or JJ because with his style he would have reraised from the button. The two hands I was worried about were KQ and 87 but since he was so loose aggressive and I had half my stack in I figured worse case I could fill up to win. I put him on a pair and a draw and thats what he turned over Q10. Turn 8 river blank and another time where I put my money in with the best of it and I lose due to variance. The pot would have put me in the top 15 in chips. Just another example for ya. This keeps happening what can I do to prevent it?

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

He had 8 outs and got lucky. Poker does have a luck element. Just ask Phil Hellmuth.In the past, I've thought I had the same problem as you and tried to figure out what I'm doing wrong, but it's just luck sometimes. Eventually your luck will get better in those coin flips and you'll go on a nice run. If not, quit poker.I was watching ESPN Classic '03 WSOP ME and Men the Master made a quote that has been representing my game as of late and describes a winning poker player. "When I lose, I lose small. When I win, I win big." Try to avoid the marginal situations and make the most of your good hands. You could have led out on the flop of 9 T J and he probably would have flat called. Then the 8 comes on the turn and you could have folded and saved your chips. Small things like that make a difference. Maybe wait until the turn or river to start pushing when you know you have the best hand. Are you pushing a lot of hands preflop or on the flop and just thinking you'll win with a marginal advantage? Think about it. If you're relying on coin flips every time to make it deep, you're only going to win that one single pot 50% of the time. If you have to rely on a coin flip 3 times in one tourny, there is an 87.5% chance that you're going to lose at least one of them and bust out. Factor in a bad luck streak and you're busting out early 90-95% of the time. Let the chips come to you instead of trying to make something happen when you don't necesarily (sp?) need to.

[chgocubs99 0]

He had 8 outs and got lucky. Poker does have a luck element. Just ask Phil Hellmuth.In the past, I've thought I had the same problem as you and tried to figure out what I'm doing wrong, but it's just luck sometimes. Eventually your luck will get better in those coin flips and you'll go on a nice run. If not, quit poker.I was watching ESPN Classic '03 WSOP ME and Men the Master made a quote that has been representing my game as of late and describes a winning poker player. "When I lose, I lose small. When I win, I win big." Try to avoid the marginal situations and make the most of your good hands. You could have led out on the flop of 9 T J and he probably would have flat called. Then the 8 comes on the turn and you could have folded and saved your chips. Small things like that make a difference. Maybe wait until the turn or river to start pushing when you know you have the best hand. Are you pushing a lot of hands preflop or on the flop and just thinking you'll win with a marginal advantage? Think about it. If you're relying on coin flips every time to make it deep, you're only going to win that one single pot 50% of the time. If you have to rely on a coin flip 3 times in one tourny, there is an 87.5% chance that you're going to lose at least one of them and bust out. Factor in a bad luck streak and you're busting out early 90-95% of the time. Let the chips come to you instead of trying to make something happen when you don't necesarily (sp?) need to.

A lot of this is way, way off. You had an open end straight hit against you and a flush draw hit against you. Sucks, I know..but it happens. You will only cash less than 20% of the time...you need to relalize the importance of top 3 finishes and don't be afraid to continue to do what you are doing...getting your money in with the best hand to build a stack as you reach the money.