ForRealDD 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I'd like to hear some feedback given the following:We know our opponent, and his style of play. From the smooth call preflop, assume villan has KK. AA and QQ are possibilities, but not probable (given our hand). Knowing this, we're not going much farther than the flop unless we get a good piece. How do you play this hand? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button (t1800)SB (t4730)BB (t1485)Hero (t4798)UTG+1 (t3685)MP1 (t3555)MP2 (t4475)CO (t5357)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, A. Hero raises to t300, UTG+1 calls t300, 6 folds.Flop: (t750) 8, J, Q(2 players)Hero bets t400, UTG+1 raises to t1200Hero? Link to post Share on other sites
throwemaway 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Well we are coinflipping at this point against KK, but if we hit the A or Q, and maybe the spade, that might kill our action..Id shove Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 yeah it's a virtual 50-50. It's cooler to draw than have the made hand. I shove to maximize value when we hit and we have higher than 0% fold equity Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 At this point you may as well push. If I know he has KK I check fold the flop though. Id rather give up the 300 chips than risk the tourney on a 50:50 chance. Link to post Share on other sites
ForRealDD 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 At this point you may as well push. If I know he has KK I check fold the flop though. Id rather give up the 300 chips than risk the tourney on a 50:50 chance.Point taken, but also know that villan is a very experienced, tough player to have on our left, and we have him covered by about 1100 @ 50/100. You still check fold this flop ? Link to post Share on other sites
darkrider88 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 How sure are you of KK?I can't see how we are getting away at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
ForRealDD 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 How sure are you of KK?I can't see how we are getting away at this point.I would say I'm 90% QQ,KK,AA, and given our hand......... (I'm 90% postflop)I've been on his right getting into a few pots and showing down strong hands. I know he has been waiting to trap me, and I don't see him smooth calling with anything but a monster....As soon as I lead the flop and he raises, I know exactly where I'm at....and that was my dillema. Link to post Share on other sites
GeneralGeeWhiz 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Shark hungry, allllllllll innnnnnnn! Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Point taken, but also know that villan is a very experienced, tough player to have on our left, and we have him covered by about 1100 @ 50/100. You still check fold this flop ?No, if he's a tough player with position on you then you might want to take the gamble here. Link to post Share on other sites
ForRealDD 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 No, if he's a tough player with position on you then you might want to take the gamble here.This was my line of thinking. I did come back over the top, he had KK , and I bricked. This was in the nightly $162 and a 9k stack would have been mighty nice at that point. Link to post Share on other sites
WhatArunAA 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 At this point you may as well push. If I know he has KK I check fold the flop though. Id rather give up the 300 chips than risk the tourney on a 50:50 chance. A good player probably folds KK there. Link to post Share on other sites
alanstats 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 A good player probably folds KK there.I am not a good player then. Did anyone see Wasicka fold QQ in the USPC against only moderate resistance on a all rainbow low flop? Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 A good player probably folds KK there.Maybe if there is no spade draw and I know the villain is a very strong player (most strong players play tight in the early levels) and it's very early I could fold. And I probably overfold big hands, this just isn't a spot where you can fold KK and not be playing scared. Too many draw hands present you need to get it in there with KK IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 A good player probably folds KK there.Not sure I agree with this. So many other hands are shoving at KK there, primarily the hand we have (even non-Spades). I dunno, maybe because I try to chip up early and I have seen so much crap shoved, I tend to give less credit that probably most. This is a tough hand but against a good player I think his range could include a few more hands than you put him on. He could be putting you on AK and hopes to take the pot from you but gave himself some fold equity if you shove. Maybe I just have too much gambooooool to chip up but I shove his raise. Link to post Share on other sites
rog 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I am not a good player then. Did anyone see Wasicka fold QQ in the USPC against only moderate resistance on a all rainbow low flop?lol. It's what he does. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I don't see how it's possible for you to put him on KK when he just calls utg+1. If he does, then he is a horrible player, because he is giving everybody behind you guys excellent odds, and is likely to get his kings cracked. I push. Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I don't see how it's possible for you to put him on KK when he just calls utg+1. If he does, then he is a horrible player, because he is giving everybody behind you guys excellent odds, and is likely to get his kings cracked. I push.true, but it disguises your hand strength and if someone tries to squeeze (which ive been seeing A LOT lately in tournies) then he can just reshoveobv re-raising would be ideal but lets say he does....he'll just win a small pot cuz i doubt that OP wants to build the pot and play it OOP against someone whos shown considerable strength by raising an UTG raiser Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I don't see how it's possible for you to put him on KK when he just calls utg+1. If he does, then he is a horrible player, because he is giving everybody behind you guys excellent odds, and is likely to get his kings cracked. I push.This is exactly how I would play the hand. I think there has been some editing on the OP (not positive though). But when the first read came I'm pretty sure he said assume you know villain has KK, so there was no option to how would you play it otherwise, just what is the best course of action if his hand is face up. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 With so many people left to act, just calling with KK there is VERY bad. It doesn't matter if he wins a small pot or not, because KK does not play well when there are 4-5 people to the flop which is very likely given the pot odds. I understand the point of the post, but I don't see how it makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 With so many people left to act, just calling with KK there is VERY bad. It doesn't matter if he wins a small pot or not, because KK does not play well when there are 4-5 people to the flop which is very likely given the pot odds. I understand the point of the post, but I don't see how it makes sense.i agree, its not the ideal play, but like DN said, in tournament poker, you just gotta let people catch up sometimestournament poker is irrational poker at times Link to post Share on other sites
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