hands to raise from sb and bb

[Mattnxtc 0]

Ok so usually unless i have a monster qq-aa or like big slick i will more then likely just call the bb or check it if in the bb. Am i playing to tight from those positions. I know ive read there isnt much value to raising from the sb especially since im at the lowest limits on party...So should i open my game up a bit more or just stick with what im comfortable with?

[JFarrell20 1]

you talkin limit or no limit?Big difference.

[DKE_XP120 0]

i'd say at the very least, from the blinds raise any PP 9's or higher, AK-A10suited, AK, AQoffsuit, and KQ,KQsuited**Edit**assuming you're playing limit

[justblaze 0]

if limit, then its often -EV to raise with anything less than AA,KK, or AK. of course, this depends on how many callers there are. if there is only one caller, i will raise with a lot more hands to get headsup with the limper (knock out the bb) and gain some fold equity. in a multiway pot, you lose all the deception that comes with playing from the blinds and you will not thin the field. additionally, you are unwittingly providing odds for any draw.

[DKE_XP120 0]

I'm taking it right from SSHE, are you saying if you have JJ or AQ suited, your not raising from the blinds? If we are talking limit (only because I dont know much NL) IMO you are way off

[PT0077 0]

if limit, then its often -EV to raise with anything less than AA,KK, or AK. of course, this depends on how many callers there are. if there is only one caller, i will raise with a lot more hands to get headsup with the limper (knock out the bb) and gain some fold equity. in a multiway pot, you lose all the deception that comes with playing from the blinds and you will not thin the field. additionally, you are unwittingly providing odds for any draw.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. Basically you want to raise with AA-JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ. These hands are +EV especially with limpers. If you have a higher quality hand than your opponents no matter where at the table you are, it is +EV to raise. Now, this is only assuming limpers. If raised, it's a totally different story. But overall, it is correct to raise with superior holdings.

[justblaze 0]

I'm taking it right from SSHE, are you saying if you have JJ or AQ suited, your not raising from the blinds? If we are talking limit (only because I dont know much NL) IMO you are way off

well, there we have a difference of opinion. i play almost exclusively limit. raising KQ from the blinds is asking for trouble. so is JJ. you will flop to an underpair almost half the time with JJ. what then, continuance bet? you are throwing 2 small bets right out the window. I understand your equity edge stands to be pretty high, but i think you lose deception value and it forces you into making bets even when you miss. AQs i might raise with, but AQo definitely not.

[Mattnxtc 0]

sorry yeah i was talkin limit

[justblaze 0]

if limit, then its often -EV to raise with anything less than AA,KK, or AK. of course, this depends on how many callers there are. if there is only one caller, i will raise with a lot more hands to get headsup with the limper (knock out the bb) and gain some fold equity. in a multiway pot, you lose all the deception that comes with playing from the blinds and you will not thin the field. additionally, you are unwittingly providing odds for any draw.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. Basically you want to raise with AA-JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ. These hands are +EV especially with limpers. If you have a higher quality hand than your opponents no matter where at the table you are, it is +EV to raise. Now, this is only assuming limpers. If raised, it's a totally different story. But overall, it is correct to raise with superior holdings.

please. tell me your screen name. i would like to play with anyone who raises AJo out of the blinds. That is most definitely a -EV move.

[DKE_XP120 0]

please. tell me your screen name. i would like to play with anyone who raises AJo out of the blinds. That is most definitely a -EV move.AJ off out of blinds may be negative EV, but only limping with everything but AA,KK,QQ is WAAAAY more -EV, read SSHE, or reread it. You're missing out on alot of money

[Silly_11 0]

what does SSHE stand for? super system hold em? or Sklansky hold em?

[justblaze 0]

please. tell me your screen name. i would like to play with anyone who raises AJo out of the blinds. That is most definitely a -EV move.AJ off out of blinds may be negative EV, but only limping with everything but AA,KK,QQ is WAAAAY more -EV, read SSHE, or reread it.  You're missing out on alot of money

what limping? im talking about checking or raising out of the blinds. Ive read SSHE, its not the bible. its good, but its just a guideline. I dont raise from the blinds with QQ but i do with AK. im talking about multiway pots here (>4 limpers). with 1 or 2 limpers, as i said before, its a much different story. and if you are trying to tell me that limping with JJ has a negative expectation, you need to figure out what the theory of expectation means. you're arguing that it is LESS +EV, not -EV. If you want to expound others theories as fact, its best to at least understand the terms.

[DKE_XP120 0]

if limit, then its often -EV to raise with anything less than AA,KK, or AK. .

and if you are trying to tell me that limping with JJ has a negative expectation, you need to figure out what the theory of expectation means. you're arguing that it is LESS +EV, not -EVstick to your own advice

[PT0077 0]

please. tell me your screen name. i would like to play with anyone who raises AJo out of the blinds. That is most definitely a -EV move.AJ off out of blinds may be negative EV, but only limping with everything but AA,KK,QQ is WAAAAY more -EV, read SSHE, or reread it.  You're missing out on alot of money

what limping? im talking about checking or raising out of the blinds. Ive read SSHE, its not the bible. its good, but its just a guideline. I dont raise from the blinds with QQ but i do with AK. im talking about multiway pots here (>4 limpers). with 1 or 2 limpers, as i said before, its a much different story. and if you are trying to tell me that limping with JJ has a negative expectation, you need to figure out what the theory of expectation means. you're arguing that it is LESS +EV, not -EV. If you want to expound others theories as fact, its best to at least understand the terms.

Well, first, I'm not going to pretend that I have the bankroll for your "superstar" status Just Blaze, but with 3-4 limpers, in a loose game, I am going to raise with QQ, JJ, AQ, AK, AJs. If you have the best hand PF, there is a good chance that you will by the end of the hand. In a tight game I will never raise AJ, but in the .05/.10 world that I am in right now where you have 6-8 people seeing the flop, AJs is strong enough to raise out of a blind. And if you're not raising QQ out of the blinds, then something is terribly wrong, it's not the third best hand for nothing. But, like I said, I am a lowly .05/.10 player that only wins at 10BB/100 over 10k hands.

[BigRob 0]

here is my opinion... everything has to do with variables if you are not stating them then you cant make or ask for a proper evaluation of the hands to raise on..poker is not cut and dry its not black and white poker is GREY...there are no rules to doing things that you do many people watch people on tv and question what they do and then do something the same 2 weeks later..poker is a skill not a game played by drones..look i have sit at a NL table and raised inthe small bling with 87 suited... now that may sound nuts but i also didnt tell you that the whole time i was at the table when i bet signifigant 2/5blinds everyone would usually fold or i would get one caller.... when you have mental control on a table you can do things that you would normally do and thats poker i want people to guess when i bet whether i have aces or i have a set on the flop you cant just bet the same it will cost you alot more because people will fold to you and move on and you will not get paid off in that respect... and why all the notations to books on here who cares who wrote what book i mean look at some of the books out they are good but they are only as good as the person who uses the information... i saw doyle shorthanded he looked at one card and went all in where is that in the book? the guys are smart but they also dont tell you everything they are guidlines to help play better but that dosent mean you are going to play better... look i play retty tight at a casino and i dont mind loose players or loose calls but i also am defiantely afraid to push all in because you have to you cant just sit their with scared money i may bet hard with aces on one hand and then slow play them the next i dont want people guaging my play so you have to mix up what you bet and call with the sb like any other position but also be ready because if you raised or called with a hand you better be ready to defend it when you get raised or lay it down

[jayboogie 0]

Raising out of the small blind is often a big mistake. I pretty much never raise out of the small blind unless I have Aces or Kings and theres only 1 possibly 2 players in the pot and I want to build the pot immediately otherwise all you do is give away the strength of your hand while your out of position and you'll have no idea how you stand on the flop on a drawing hand like AK, AQ, AJ and etc. In the big blind, I'll raise to build a pot if I've got AK suited, AA, KK, QQ sometimes. That's really about it though. With hands like QQ, JJ, TT you want to thin the field and be headup, against 4 or 5 players, chances are somebody is playing an Ace. Of course everything is situational and I won't neccessarily stick to this all the time.

[UglyJimStudly 0]

what does SSHE stand for?   super system hold em?   or Sklansky hold em?

Small Stakes Hold 'em. A book by Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth, one of the most popular low-limit guides. Worth reading even if you don't follow it slavishly, just because a lot of players do read it and a fair number do at least try to follow it down to the letter.

[DKE_XP120 0]

look i have sit at a NL table and raised inthe small bling with 87 suitedDoesnt sound that nuts actually, thats NL, we're talking limit, most plays in limit, especially preflop are pretty clear

[PT0077 0]

Raising out of the small blind is often a big mistake.  I pretty much never raise out of the small blind unless I have Aces or Kings and theres only 1 possibly 2 players in the pot and I want to build the pot immediately otherwise all you do is give away the strength of your hand while your out of position and you'll have no idea how you stand on the flop on a drawing hand like AK, AQ, AJ and etc.  In the big blind, I'll raise to build a pot if I've got AK suited, AA, KK, QQ sometimes.  That's really about it though.  With hands like QQ, JJ, TT you want to thin the field and be headup, against 4 or 5 players, chances are somebody is playing an Ace.  Of course everything is situational and I won't neccessarily stick to this all the time.

I am very interested in this topic, and normally I read everyones posts but never really say anything, but maybe this topic has me wound up. You say you don't raise QQ, JJ, TT because someone normally has an ace. Well, with QQ, an ace or a K flops 30% of the time. It's easy to say that just cause they have an ace, it's not as good a hand, but they are less than often going to hit that Ace or K. From what I am hearing, people are afraid to push the envelope. If you have people limping in with any ace, or JT, or even KQ,QJ, or KT, why not raise to pay for their poor choice in hand selection. And I'm not saying that this is always going to be the case, but in loose games it is profitable to raise from the blinds with about the same hands that you would raise from EP. Of course, I'm also a person that is Tight Aggressive. If I play a hand, I want to have a lead in the betting.

[Polakplayer16 0]

Ok i might be in the minority on this one, only because theres so many chanches to shoot yourself in the foot with a play like this( note that im mostly a tournement player, but i think it would be well applied to a cash game situation) Any how heres a senerio. Folded around to late positon, one off the botton raises and the button calls, SB folds. your in the big blind with a hand such as 57, or 68(any other hands that would fall into that catagory). Theres a good chances that the late position raiser was attempting a steal and the button calling with a marginal hand but he or she figures they have postion. So i would re-raise hoping to push them off the hand, Even if they call, they cant pin you on a hand like that so if you flop a hand its likely that you will get paid. The danger of this hand comes with a flop such as 3-7-Q try not to get 2 invested because they are very liable between the two of them to have a Q. Try to narrow the field with a raise from the BB. so youll better know where your at.This post was poorly writen, excuse that and find a big hole in this theory. Note that this play is aplicable in tournements only when you have a big stack and/or the blinds are small.

[justblaze 0]

ok instead of quoting everyones posts ill respond to some in this one:Raising out of the small blind is often a big mistake... With hands like QQ, JJ, TT you want to thin the field.my point exactly. these hands dont play particularily well multiway. your equity edge is overcome by the loss of deception and the fact that any draw now has good odds to chase when you raise with hands like these from the blinds. Also, the flop play becomes tricky. what if theres one over? do you bet? if you get raised do you fold? easier to check/fold when you havent invested anything. poker is not cut and dry its not black and white poker is GREYactually, in limit poker decisions are often black and white. the only real variables are math. there is usually a decision with optimal expectation. but with 3-4 limpers, in a loose game, I am going to raise with QQ, JJ, AQ, AK, AJs.get pokertracker. let me know how you do raising AJs from the blinds. I guarantee you will be -EV. And if you're not raising QQ out of the blinds, then something is terribly wrongIm going to disagree there. In europe, they call QQ a 'small pair'. there is a reason. I am a lowly .05/.10 player that only wins at 10BB/100 over 10k hands.Correct me if im wrong, but this sentence is meant to imply that you are a winning player. That win rate is unsustainable at any limit, and your sample size is statistically insignificant with regards to determining winrate. nice try, though. stick to your own advicei am. find me an instance where i posited theories by notable poker authors as pure fact.

[PT0077 0]

ok instead of quoting everyones posts ill respond to some in this one:Raising out of the small blind is often a big mistake... With hands like QQ, JJ, TT you want to thin the field.my point exactly. these hands dont play particularily well multiway. your equity edge is overcome by the loss of deception and the fact that any draw now has good odds to chase when you raise with hands like these from the blinds. Also, the flop play becomes tricky. what if theres one over? do you bet? if you get raised do you fold? easier to check/fold when you havent invested anything.  poker is not cut and dry its not black and white poker is GREYactually, in limit poker decisions are often black and white. the only real variables are math. there is usually a decision with optimal expectation.  but with 3-4 limpers, in a loose game, I am going to raise with QQ, JJ, AQ, AK, AJs.get pokertracker. let me know how you do raising AJs from the blinds. I guarantee you will be -EV.  And if you're not raising QQ out of the blinds, then something is terribly wrongIm going to disagree there. In europe, they call QQ a 'small pair'. there is a reason.  I am a lowly .05/.10 player that only wins at 10BB/100 over 10k hands.Correct me if im wrong, but this sentence is meant to imply that you are a winning player. That win rate is unsustainable at any limit, and your sample size is statistically insignificant with regards to determining winrate. nice try, though.  stick to your own advicei am. find me an instance where i posited theories by notable poker authors as pure fact.

Once again, I have a feeling that you are not understanding me. QQ, whether it be a small pair or not, in an unraised pot this hand should always be raised. As far as my winrate goes, I believe that at this level with the quality of the opponents and the fact that there is no rake, that a winrate of 8BB/100 is sustainable. Taking the rake out of the situation makes it sustainable. I do believe that I am a winning player, and if you think that 10BB/100 is not a winning player, then something is wrong.As far as my SB stats, I can't give you that information at the moment because I am at work and my poker tracker is at home. I will be able to look at it and get back to you on that.I feel as though my point of view is correct. If your postflop skills are adequate and you know when you are beat, then you should be able to raise these hands and it be +EV. (Remember, only in loose, passive games)

[DKE_XP120 0]

I was more or less refering to you being hippocritical, however:i am. find me an instance where i posited theories by notable poker authors as pure fact.I already did, You talked about me not understanding expectation thoery, "if you are trying to tell me that limping with JJ has a negative expectation, you need to figure out what the theory of expectation means. you're arguing that it is LESS +EV, not -EV "and went on to say:if limit, then its often -EV to raise with anything less than AA,KK, or AK.you're obviosly not understanding expectation thoery by checking with QQ... You're not raising to thin the field, you're raising to make other bad players pay more for their mistakes, by playing ace-rag and king-rag.... You know, playing better than people in order to win more money, the reason most people play poker

[jayboogie 0]

Raising out of the small blind is often a big mistake.  I pretty much never raise out of the small blind unless I have Aces or Kings and theres only 1 possibly 2 players in the pot and I want to build the pot immediately otherwise all you do is give away the strength of your hand while your out of position and you'll have no idea how you stand on the flop on a drawing hand like AK, AQ, AJ and etc.  In the big blind, I'll raise to build a pot if I've got AK suited, AA, KK, QQ sometimes.  That's really about it though.  With hands like QQ, JJ, TT you want to thin the field and be headup, against 4 or 5 players, chances are somebody is playing an Ace.  Of course everything is situational and I won't neccessarily stick to this all the time.

I am very interested in this topic, and normally I read everyones posts but never really say anything, but maybe this topic has me wound up. You say you don't raise QQ, JJ, TT because someone normally has an ace. Well, with QQ, an ace or a K flops 30% of the time. It's easy to say that just cause they have an ace, it's not as good a hand, but they are less than often going to hit that Ace or K. From what I am hearing, people are afraid to push the envelope. If you have people limping in with any ace, or JT, or even KQ,QJ, or KT, why not raise to pay for their poor choice in hand selection. And I'm not saying that this is always going to be the case, but in loose games it is profitable to raise from the blinds with about the same hands that you would raise from EP. Of course, I'm also a person that is Tight Aggressive. If I play a hand, I want to have a lead in the betting.

It's still not profitable to raise in the blinds with a hand like JJ, TT unless your headup against another player, against a field of 4 or 5 players, it's stupid actually. You have to lead out and the board will flop a higher card to your pair most of the time. The only time raising out of the blinds particularly the small blind is profitable is if your trying to build a pot and you already have a strong hand or a very good drawing hand like AK suited. If you raise out of the blinds with JJ with 3 callers, what do you do when an Ace, king or queen flops? Do you check? bet? Your basically in bad shape and out of position, if somebody raises when you bet, it's not a hard laydown, but if you just keep getting called. Your allowing yourself to be outplayed by doing that. QQ does not play that well multiway and needs to be carefully played for the most part, I will raise it in the big blind against 2 or 3 callers who I know play garbage, but not in the small blind. I'm assuming you guys are talking about playing in the blinds with only limpers and no raisers, if there's a raiser, I'll usually re-raise with QQ and obviously KK, AA, AK suited and usually AK as well. I think most of you don't understand the value of position, in the blinds your in terrible position and you need to take that in consideration at all times. JJ in late position is a lot more valuable than in the blinds.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Ok i might be in the minority on this one, only because theres so many chanches to shoot yourself in the foot with a play like this( note that im mostly a tournement player, but i think it would be well applied to a cash game situation) Any how heres a senerio. Folded around to late positon, one off the botton raises and the button calls, SB folds. your in the big blind with a hand such as 57, or 68(any other hands that would fall into that catagory). Theres a good chances that the late position raiser was attempting a steal and the button calling with a marginal hand but he or she figures they have postion. So i would re-raise hoping to push them off the hand, Even if they call, they cant pin you on a hand like that so if you flop a hand its likely that you will get paid. The danger of this hand comes with a flop such as 3-7-Q try not to get 2 invested because they are very liable between the two of them to have a Q. Try to narrow the field with a raise from the BB. so youll better know where your at.This post was poorly writen, excuse that and find a big hole in this theory. Note that this play is aplicable in tournements only when you have a big stack and/or the blinds are small.

Are you talking about NL? Sure sounds like it. If you are actually not confused and really are talking about limit, yeah you probably are the minority.