Analysis On Dn's Final Table

[chgocubs99 0]

but he kills the 180 SNGs on Stars, so he mus know.

Please stop making false posts.Grinder is down $3K on the year in 180's...get it right.

[Bizzle 0]

Please stop making false posts.Grinder is down $3K on the year in 180's...get it right.

Poor Grinder, taking a beating in here.And whiskey was joking with him.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Compiled from the Hendon Mob database (note: most of the big ball players weren't even in the WPT top 100 money list, so I had to go in and add up their winnings (except for Lederer)!!!)WPT Cash Winnings for (I added Daniel and Matusow to even it up):Small Ball Players:Daniel Negreanu = 4,840,819 Phil Ivey = 1,152,896 Gus Hansen = 2,196,846Erick Lindgren = 2,262,304 Michael Mizrachi = 4,080,720 Nam Le = 1,422,023 Tuan Le = 4,480,643 Phil Hellmuth = 466,204TOTAL SMALL BALL PLAYERS = $20,902,455"Big Ball" Players: "Mike Matusow = 379,520Greg Raymer = 60,180Chris Ferguson = 240,692Howard Lederer = 734,048Andy Bloch = 364,525Phil Gordon = 360,000Phil Laak = 377,255Erik Seidel = 438,742TOTAL "BIG BALL" PLAYERS = $2,954,962AINEC!

I missed this this morning and its actually very interesting...I could have put my bankroll on the fact that small ball type players were WAY more profitable than longball in 10k + events. I played with matusow for day one @ foxwoods and there is no way he has a shot in big wpt's unless he gets slapped in the face. With 16k in chips and 200/400 blinds he called UTG's raise to 1200, mimi tran made it 3600 UTG +2 as she was stacking up her 65k pot...matusow then shoved all in w/ absolutely 0 fold equity (based on how mimi had been playing etc)..Mimi and I talked about it at the commerce the next week and she just confirmed my opinion on how terrible the play was "if Im stacking my chips, and I raise there, I don't have a hand that I'm ever going to fold for 12k more. If he put me on AK he can call and c/r me all in w/ no A on the flop"It's actually pretty funny now that I think about it, small ball players hardly ever make 1500-3k buy in FT'sat the series, look at grinder, JC Tran, Gavin Smith, etc.. however players like Matusow make those 1500-3k FT's more often. If you look at the 5k-10k events, theyre mostly FT'ed by players with very very good post flop play. Here's the thing though, look at who's winning the events and HOW they are winning them, imo it goes one of two ways. Either a good small ball player comes in with a monster stack and plays solid at the FT to win it, or a solid preflop player comes in w/ an avg stack and just shoves in preflop to win the tourney. I think the perfect example of how NOT to play at FT's would be Gavin Smith's play at the New Orleans circuit event, in which he tried to use his chips to put pressure on his opponents, when he could have just waited for big hands and still have a dominating chiplead HU. At the same time, Peter Feldman's (nordberg) play was flawless IMO..all he did was play solid and wait for hands, he got 2 big PF hands and doubled through Gavin both times.

[chgocubs99 0]

Poor Grinder, taking a beating in here.And whiskey was joking with him.

And I'm joking with Grinder...

[GrinderMJ 0]

And I'm joking with Grinder...

EVERYBODY JUST LEAVE ME ALONE GOSH.

[HoosierAlum 0]

DN and Hachem are in a very elite class of players that recognize and adapt their play to the difference between WPT and smaller WSOP events. If you are playing a $1500 at the WSOP, the bottom line is that playing small ball is not the best strategy. On the flip side, playing super-aggressive re-raise pf poker in WPT events before the FT is pretty silly as well. A player should never restrict himself to one set playing style, instead they should adapt to the tournament structure/field/table conditions etc. Only a few players, most noteably Hachem and DN, have had success in both the WPT and WSOP and it just goes to show that they are two of the best players on tour. FWIW, I'm pretty sure Hachem is not a "rock". I haven't played with him so I can't say for sure, but I would venture to say he tries to give off a tight image but is far from being a tight player.DN, how would you categorize Barry Greenstein's tournament game?

[IQCrash 1]

DN, how would you categorize Barry Greenstein's game?

Count Choculous!

[Bizzle 0]

At the same time, Peter Feldman's (nordberg) play was flawless IMO

Your post was outstanding, as usual. Someday I want to make a thread about the best final table performances we've seen on TV.

[Ouch-8s 4]

Your post was outstanding, as usual. Someday I want to make a thread about the best final table performances we've seen on TV.

That would be an interesting topic. The first that come to mind would be Hachem 's ME win, and his short-handed against Boyd (although he didn't win). The ME he never had chips until the end but stayed there and won it, the second he just never got it in bad. Tuan Le's ability to suck out (I think it was his 2nd WPT win?) was pretty impressive too, for a different reason. Gus Hansen IIRC had a good one in season one of the WPT, pretty much made his name on it. Doyle vs Lee Watkinson; I only watched the HU part, but I remember predicting the bet amounts and actions to my sister in law at the time - I don't know if that means they played unimaginative ABC poker, but I liked it because, in my mind, it meant I was capable of making correct plays. My memory is not so hot anymore, but how's that for a start?

[PrtyPSux 0]

Your post was outstanding, as usual. Someday I want to make a thread about the best final table performances we've seen on TV.

Silly as it may sound, I believe Gold's would have to be up there.

[stevel999 0]

I am still new to this forum, but I have to say that this is by far the best thread I have read here. Where else can you get indepth analysis of the final table of a major tournament and then get regular feedback from the Pro who just finished 3rd?

[Bizzle 0]

Silly as it may sound, I believe Gold's would have to be up there.

The two that stand out most to me, over time, just due to having a gameplan and executing it flawlessly, are the Stolzmann and Schulman wins of WPT events.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I thought Michael Gracz's performance at the 2005 1K NLHE tournament in 2005 was pretty outstanding. I don't think I saw him make a bad decision. He outplayed David "the Dragon" Pham pretty severely, and made apretty badass Ace high call down at one point (though I'm unable to remember against whom). He played great against CT LAW headsup, too.Wang

[GrinderMJ 0]

I thought Michael Gracz's performance at the 2005 1K NLHE tournament in 2005 was pretty outstanding. I don't think I saw him make a bad decision. He outplayed David "the Dragon" Pham pretty severely, and made apretty badass Ace high call down at one point (though I'm unable to remember against whom). He played great against CT LAW headsup, too.Wang

FWIW, he got it in sick bad HU with like Q8 vs. QJ on a J8x board, but he played amazing at that FT for sure. The hand you are referencing was against Shane Schleger (sp?) also known as Shaniac. Action was like, shaniac opens KJ, Gracz calls A10 in position, flop is xxx under rags, turn is x rag again, Shaniac shoves, and Gracz pretty confidently calls the all in with just A10 high, no draw etc. I forgot about that tourney, but he played great from what they showed.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

FWIW, he got it in sick bad HU with like Q8 vs. QJ on a J8x board, but he played amazing at that FT for sure. The hand you are referencing was against Shane Schleger (sp?) also known as Shaniac. Action was like, shaniac opens KJ, Gracz calls A10 in position, flop is xxx under rags, turn is x rag again, Shaniac shoves, and Gracz pretty confidently calls the all in with just A10 high, no draw etc. I forgot about that tourney, but he played great from what they showed.

Yeah, you're right. I completely forgot about that hand. And 8 slides off and he wins. I still think he played like a fucking man.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Yeah, you're right. I completely forgot about that hand. And 8 slides off and he wins. I still think he played like a fucking man.

Strongly agree, even though it's usually hard to tell with the editing etc. I came away very impressed with his game both after that, and his win in the limit WPT he won.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Someday I want to make a thread about the best final table performances we've seen on TV.

Obv its nearly impossible to say with all the editing/time constraints.Oh how I long for live poker telecasts.

[Whiskey16 1]

Poor Grinder, taking a beating in here.And whiskey was joking with him.

I forgot that in this end of general, SW is required.Edit: and for us poker nobodys, I like to reminisce about David Chiu's WPT win and Varkonyi's WSOP ME. I'm picturing that would be the best recipe for me to win.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

DN and Hachem are in a very elite class of players that recognize and adapt their play to the difference between WPT and smaller WSOP events. If you are playing a $1500 at the WSOP, the bottom line is that playing small ball is not the best strategy. On the flip side, playing super-aggressive re-raise pf poker in WPT events before the FT is pretty silly as well. A player should never restrict himself to one set playing style, instead they should adapt to the tournament structure/field/table conditions etc. Only a few players, most noteably Hachem and DN, have had success in both the WPT and WSOP and it just goes to show that they are two of the best players on tour. FWIW, I'm pretty sure Hachem is not a "rock". I haven't played with him so I can't say for sure, but I would venture to say he tries to give off a tight image but is far from being a tight player.DN, how would you categorize Barry Greenstein's tournament game?

He starts out extremely tight in a ring game, plays mostly pre-flop poker, will bet the flops a VERY high percentage of the time, and will bluff if he senses weakness. Later in a tournament when play gets short handed he goes absolutely insane! Playing very aggressive before the flop.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

I thought the Borgata final table in 04' was pretty special: Phil Ivey, David Williams, Josh Arieh, myself, Syracuse Chris, and one random, dude. Down to three handed there was some interesting play and then heads up you saw two completely contrasting styles go head to head.

[Ouch-8s 4]

I thought the Borgata final table in 04' was pretty special: Phil Ivey, David Williams, Josh Arieh, myself, Syracuse Chris, and one random, dude. Down to three handed there was some interesting play and then heads up you saw two completely contrasting styles go head to head.

Was that the "FlopMaster" FT? That was an interesting one.

[Eric Smith 0]

I thought the Borgata final table in 04' was pretty special: Phil Ivey, David Williams, Josh Arieh, myself, Syracuse Chris, and one random, dude. Down to three handed there was some interesting play and then heads up you saw two completely contrasting styles go head to head.

yeh i really like that episode. On the other hand, i think it would be even more entertaining with Ivey making it heads up or at least three handed.

[Bizzle 0]

I thought the Borgata final table in 04' was pretty special: Phil Ivey, David Williams, Josh Arieh, myself, Syracuse Chris, and one random, dude. Down to three handed there was some interesting play and then heads up you saw two completely contrasting styles go head to head.

I completely agree. I was thinking more along the lines of a certain player putting in an outstanding performance, but that FT is one of my favorites to watch. I also enjoyed the 5 Diamond championship that season as well.I mentioned Schulman because I thought he controlled the table extremely well. It helped that because his FT was so short that we got to see a higher percentage of the hands at the table, as opposed to other times when you just see the all-in pots and whatnot. He received some help from Gazes losing to the idiot Licastro when it would have put Gazes and Schulman at about an equal level, but even still I think it was one of the more impressive FT performances I've seen. He just ran the table very well and was literally never in a spot where he could be hurt.I mentioned Stolzmann because more than anyone I have ever seen at the table, he completely acknowledged that you and Chau were totally able to outplay him after the flop. He made several massive adjustments and was totally willing to flip a coin for what essentially 3 handed was 900k, which is something that I doubt too many young players would be completely willing to do. He did get lucky to win, however, I thought that in terms of gameplan and adjusting to the scenario he was in, he showed a level of game understanding that is rarely seen, on TV or anywhere else.