Christmas Questions

[DerekTah 0]

I was going to start but go ahead and ask anything else related to the holiday (thought it might as well be in one thread).Where do the wise men come from. Yes I know the East, but has any scholars suggested the actual area that they would of come from.And yes I know, they didn't appear in a day and there may have not been 3 of them. Just wanted an answer to where do they come from.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I would like to ask atheists a question here. Are you guys offended by the word Christmas? If I said Merry Christmas to you would you be offended? If someone says to me Happy Hanuka( Jewish Holiday -- I know the spelling isn't close) I am not offended in the least, nor am I offended by seeing any Jewish symbols, ( or any other religious symbols). My instinct tells me that those in these forum's aren't really offended. So where does this offense come from. I fully believe it is disingenious, but wante to get other perspectives.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I would like to ask atheists a question here. Are you guys offended by the word Christmas?

No, not at all. We celebrate it (well, some of us do).

I fully believe it is disingenious, but wante to get other perspectives.

Probably.Would anyone be offended if I started calling it Wikimas?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi

[MDXS 0]

I would like to ask atheists a question here. Are you guys offended by the word Christmas? If I said Merry Christmas to you would you be offended? If someone says to me Happy Hanuka( Jewish Holiday -- I know the spelling isn't close) I am not offended in the least, nor am I offended by seeing any Jewish symbols, ( or any other religious symbols). My instinct tells me that those in these forum's aren't really offended. So where does this offense come from. I fully believe it is disingenious, but wante to get other perspectives.

Offended by Christmas? Not in the least. I celebrate it just without the religious aspect...or pretend it's Saturnalia. I try to tune out any of the Christmas debate, but I get the feeling that it's just a misguided effort by some overly-pc people on the left, who give ammo for those on the right to spin it, thus amplifying and distorting the issue at hand. Well, at as far as saying "Merry Christmas" or whatever. It is a national holiday, so for anyone not Christian, just don't think of it as anything religious and recognize the well wishing for what it is. I can see why people get a little worked about nativity displays on town property or in official buildings. Church and state should be seperate, despite the erroneous claims that this was founded as a Christian nation (it wasn't in any way, shape or form). A nativity scene blurs this distinction and represents something bigger than warring against Christmas or whatever. A Christmas tree and some wreaths would do the trick and shouldn't rile anyone up.Ah well. Kinda tired so I hope I kept this coherent.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Offended by Christmas? Not in the least. I celebrate it just without the religious aspect...or pretend it's Saturnalia. I try to tune out any of the Christmas debate, but I get the feeling that it's just a misguided effort by some overly-pc people on the left, who give ammo for those on the right to spin it, thus amplifying and distorting the issue at hand. Well, at as far as saying "Merry Christmas" or whatever. It is a national holiday, so for anyone not Christian, just don't think of it as anything religious and recognize the well wishing for what it is. I can see why people get a little worked about nativity displays on town property or in official buildings. Church and state should be seperate, despite the erroneous claims that this was founded as a Christian nation (it wasn't in any way, shape or form). A nativity scene blurs this distinction and represents something bigger than warring against Christmas or whatever. A Christmas tree and some wreaths would do the trick and shouldn't rile anyone up.Ah well. Kinda tired so I hope I kept this coherent.

I understand, I am not talking about church/state issue, nor do I want this to develop into a church state debate. But people getting offended because they hear people singing christmas carols ect, I just don't understand. I have never heard any rational explanation, except a hate for america or christians.

[DCJ001 0]

I was going to start but go ahead and ask anything else related to the holiday (thought it might as well be in one thread).Where do the wise men come from. Yes I know the East, but has any scholars suggested the actual area that they would of come from.And yes I know, they didn't appear in a day and there may have not been 3 of them. Just wanted an answer to where do they come from.

When they came from the East, they had not yet done anything worth writing about; therefore their origin is irrelevant. It is as if they appeared in a day and there were only three of them. If there were more, shouldn't there have been stories about them too?Scholars cannot suggest an actual origin since the bible is a work of fiction. It's up to the readers to fill in the blanks and create their own parts of the stories that are unwritten.Everyone with any real intelligence, who has not been brainwashed, realizes this just as everyone with any real intelligence understands that teaching evolution in schools is correct and teaching the fiction of the bible in schools, and brainwashing the youth, is wrong.

[DerekTah 0]

When they came from the East, they had not yet done anything worth writing about; therefore their origin is irrelevant. It is as if they appeared in a day and there were only three of them. If there were more, shouldn't there have been stories about them too?Scholars cannot suggest an actual origin since the bible is a work of fiction. It's up to the readers to fill in the blanks and create their own parts of the stories that are unwritten.Everyone with any real intelligence, who has not been brainwashed, realizes this just as everyone with any real intelligence understands that teaching evolution in schools is correct and teaching the fiction of the bible in schools, and brainwashing the youth, is wrong.

1) There is no mention of the number of the men. Only that they gave 3 gifts of note, that in itself does not prove anything about the number of men who came that day (also I doubt the wise men came at the same time as the shepards, its hard to believe their jorney takes a day and the Bible notes a difference in where they go to see Jesus).2) I've seen scholars suggest that Noah's Ark is in Mount Ararat (I mean still, you would think the wood would of decayed by now) and also other stuff in which the Bible is incredible vague about, so saying that they people doing research can't suggest a location is not true, espically considering Wiki would give suggestions on where the men would of came from (even if you assume the story in the bible is fictional, parts of the background may not be so).3) What the hell was that about?

[Loismustdie 0]

1) There is no mention of the number of the men. Only that they gave 3 gifts of note, that in itself does not prove anything about the number of men who came that day (also I doubt the wise men came at the same time as the shepards, its hard to believe their jorney takes a day and the Bible notes a difference in where they go to see Jesus).2) I've seen scholars suggest that Noah's Ark is in Mount Ararat (I mean still, you would think the wood would of decayed by now) and also other stuff in which the Bible is incredible vague about, so saying that they people doing research can't suggest a location is not true, espically considering Wiki would give suggestions on where the men would of came from (even if you assume the story in the bible is fictional, parts of the background may not be so).3) What the hell was that about?

Or.... Christmas has nothing to do with the Bible, and was invented outside of it. I'm thinking your answer lies somewhere in there.

[Entrepeneur 0]

When they came from the East, they had not yet done anything worth writing about; therefore their origin is irrelevant. It is as if they appeared in a day and there were only three of them. If there were more, shouldn't there have been stories about them too?Scholars cannot suggest an actual origin since the bible is a work of fiction. It's up to the readers to fill in the blanks and create their own parts of the stories that are unwritten.Everyone with any real intelligence, who has not been brainwashed, realizes this just as everyone with any real intelligence understands that teaching evolution in schools is correct and teaching the fiction of the bible in schools, and brainwashing the youth, is wrong.

It's Christmas...Nothing good will come from the thus ensuing argument.Let's just get back to the "Is there ever a time when you'd fold AA preflop?" type questions. Much less heated arguments.Seems like general consensus is that their visit was certainly later. He was a little older. It just works so much better with the Rockettes if the Wise Men can come in to the manger along with the Shepherds (warm fuzzy feeling).

[Canada 0]

I would like to ask atheists a question here. Are you guys offended by the word Christmas? If I said Merry Christmas to you would you be offended? If someone says to me Happy Hanuka( Jewish Holiday -- I know the spelling isn't close) I am not offended in the least, nor am I offended by seeing any Jewish symbols, ( or any other religious symbols). My instinct tells me that those in these forum's aren't really offended. So where does this offense come from. I fully believe it is disingenious, but wante to get other perspectives.

Not offended at all. I see it as good opportunity to spend time with or thinking of my family and friends which is what is important in life. This happens throughout the year, but the time off work and the festive spirit lend themselves to making an event of it. If it means something to others for religous reasons, good for them.Those offended by it are surely those that are taking PCism too far

[renaedawn 1]

I understand, I am not talking about church/state issue, nor do I want this to develop into a church state debate. But people getting offended because they hear people singing christmas carols ect, I just don't understand. I have never heard any rational explanation, except a hate for america or christians.

Most people who get offended by such things are looking for an excuse to bring up the issue.I'm an atheist and yet I find myself singing along to Silent Night when it comes on the radio.I think most rational people choose what parts of the holiday they want to celebrate and just ignore the parts they don't. I love the giving, sharing, love and feeling of doing good that comes with Christmas. The fact that, if dissected, the word pertains to a savior that I don't recognize is irrelevant.

[brvheart 1,752]

Or.... Christmas has nothing to do with the Bible, and was invented outside of it. I'm thinking your answer lies somewhere in there.

QFT.

[Canada 0]

QFT.

I'll second that

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I would also like to add that I would guess that there really aren't that many people who actually are offended (as in few to none). Don't let Fox News' "War on Christmas" fool you, no one actually cares all that much.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I would also like to add that I would guess that there really aren't that many people who actually are offended (as in few to none). Don't let Fox News' "War on Christmas" fool you, no one actually cares all that much.

exactly what i was thinkin...i hate listenin to fox news and their bs in general. I do think some people do try to ruin christmas but theres no war.further like most people have said, Scholars are quite certian that Jesus was not born around this date and actually was probably sevearl years earlier. Even astrologist tend to think something amazing happened in around April of a few years earlier..(maybe not april but early in the year)Christmas is more about celebrating with the family and so forth

[WrongWay 0]

I would also like to add that I would guess that there really aren't that many people who actually are offended (as in few to none). Don't let Fox News' "War on Christmas" fool you, no one actually cares all that much.

Right. The "War on Christmas" is really an invention of O'Reily and is a war on sagging ratings.What "War on Christmas" that does exist is mostly being fought by non-Atheist, non-Christians.... Like jews, muslims, etc. that want their religions included.What "War on Christmas" that does come from the non-religous community is aimed at maintaining the separation of church and state. I could care less if there is a nativity scene at a church, at a store, or at a movie theater. I just don't want one at city hall or in a city park.As for "Happy Holidays", I think it is just a way for stores to get you spending starting pre-Thanksgiving, and have you not stop until after New Years. And that is the "Holidays" to me.... The time from a week before Thanksgiving until New Years day. When someone says Happy Holidays to me, I assume they want me to be happy for the entire 6 week period of Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years.

[brvheart 1,752]

Jeremiah 101 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.....

[Loismustdie 0]

Jeremiah 101 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.....

Not many know that scripture exists. Good work, my friend.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Jeremiah 10

Hmmm.....Well, he just came right out and said that, didn't he?Very interesting quote.

[crowTrobot 2]

Jeremiah 101 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.....

my tree is aluminum

[timwakefield 68]

my tree is aluminum

[copernicus 0]

I would like to ask atheists a question here. Are you guys offended by the word Christmas? If I said Merry Christmas to you would you be offended? If someone says to me Happy Hanuka( Jewish Holiday -- I know the spelling isn't close) I am not offended in the least, nor am I offended by seeing any Jewish symbols, ( or any other religious symbols). My instinct tells me that those in these forum's aren't really offended. So where does this offense come from. I fully believe it is disingenious, but wante to get other perspectives.

I am not offended in the least, any more than one someone says "god bless you" to a sneeze, or the Ten Commandments are displayed in a courthouse. I don't find prayer in school offensive if it is voluntary, and I think banning the singing of religious songs in a school holiday festival ludicrous. Atheists who are (or feign at being) offended generally have a specific agenda that is far more practical and self serving. Those who dont are so insecure in their atheism that they need to shelter themselves from doubt.

[Loismustdie 0]

Hmmm.....Well, he just came right out and said that, didn't he?Very interesting quote.

I was thinking about this at work today, and how it really does come right out and say that, so for arguments sake I guess it's possible that an enterprising bible believer out there read that scripture and decided to make it come true. I suppose that's possible. Then, I started thinking that I could write a book and claim certain things would happen, and eventually, mathematically they would probably come to pass. Right? Well, then my next thought was what are the probabilities that EVERYTHING the book said would eventually happen? That seems to be a lot less likely. I am not really a math guy, or if you talk to Canada even neccesarily a facts guy, so what do you smart guys think of that line of thought?

[copernicus 0]

I was thinking about this at work today, and how it really does come right out and say that, so for arguments sake I guess it's possible that an enterprising bible believer out there read that scripture and decided to make it come true. I suppose that's possible. Then, I started thinking that I could write a book and claim certain things would happen, and eventually, mathematically they would probably come to pass. Right? Well, then my next thought was what are the probabilities that EVERYTHING the book said would eventually happen? That seems to be a lot less likely. I am not really a math guy, or if you talk to Canada even neccesarily a facts guy, so what do you smart guys think of that line of thought?

I think it has absolutely no relevance to the bible quote because it has nothing to do with "prophecy", the Christmas tree has roots in pagan festivals that would have been well known to JC and Jeremiah.

[Loismustdie 0]

I think it has absolutely no relevance to the bible quote because it has nothing to do with "prophecy", the Christmas tree has roots in pagan festivals that would have been well known to JC and Jeremiah.

Alright....overall,then. What of the thought that the Bible just became a self fullfilling prophecy because of driven believers? I really don't know the whole history behind christmas- I don't care enough to look into it.