Doing Battle With A Formidable Opponent

[Flushgarden 0]

Have you ever just had an epic battle with somebody, say at the final table of a tournament or at the end multi table SNG? You're used to fields of donks and playing aginst people who luckboxed their way there into the late stages, but as the field narrows you get a sense that this person to your right is pretty good, maybe close to as good as you. He's doing things that you would do when you would do them. Constantly applying pressure but never risking large portions of his stack without having the best of the situation. People are dropping out one by one and everybodys stacks are shrinking except his and yours, and finally, after hours of a very long very hard battle, you're heads up...and now the real war starts. You're about even in chips, and neither of you give a damn about 2nd place. You have to win, you need it more than anything. You start out agressive, as always. You want to see if his heads up game is as good as his regular game, and you quickly find out it is. He gets the best of you on a few hands early on and takes a lead, so you dig in your heels and fight back and play the best poker you possibly can...and you come back..you're in the lead. It's about the same size lead he had on you a while ago. Momentum is on your side, and you think you only need to keep it up for a little longer and you can back him into a corner and take him out. You catch a hand, top two pair. He raised pre flop and he bets out after the flop, so you just call, letting him get pot committed and in turn hang himself. His money goes all in after the turn, you call of course, expecting to see yourself way ahead after the cards are flipped up. It's a dangerous board. There is a possible straight and a possible flush, but heads up with top two pair you gotta go with it no matter what. You think at best he has one pair or is on a draw........no, he already has the straight. You double him up and you've gone from victory to being in a hole yourself. Now you're not only mentally drained, but very disheartened. It's hard to put up much of a fight after that. You find yourself being more passive, folding to raises pre flop...you're just waiting for that miracle hand that will bail you out...but it doesn't come. Finally you're quite short stacked. You just push pre flop a couple of times, and he folds. He knows he doesn't have to call anytime soon. Finally the third time you push he shows up with a better hand than you...and it holds. Game over. You were beaten, plain and simple. Nobody sucked out, it wasn't spectacular...just a slow, painful death. That's what just happened to me. I'm sure it has happened to just about every experienced tournament player. I'm dealing with it by writing this, and I'm also done with poker for the night. How do you handle something like this?

[augmented 0]

i think poker is a little less romantic than you made it out to be. but too bad about the loss. yeah, we've all had 'em. you just play another one.

[CardWarfare 4]

How do you handle something like this?

I personally, enjoy writing overdramatic internet posts about it, complimenting my opponent, and over emphasizing the importance of my effort, while overlooking my possible errors in play....but that's just me.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I'd guess heads up freezeout play like that, aggressive play vs. aggressive player, skill can make you as big a favorite as 55-60% against even crappy players.

[AAsnake88 0]

Have you ever just had an epic battle with somebody, say at the final table of a tournament or at the end multi table SNG? You're used to fields of donks and playing aginst people who luckboxed their way there into the late stages, but as the field narrows you get a sense that this person to your right is pretty good, maybe close to as good as you. He's doing things that you would do when you would do them. Constantly applying pressure but never risking large portions of his stack without having the best of the situation. People are dropping out one by one and everybodys stacks are shrinking except his and yours, and finally, after hours of a very long very hard battle, you're heads up...and now the real war starts. You're about even in chips, and neither of you give a damn about 2nd place. You have to win, you need it more than anything. You start out agressive, as always. You want to see if his heads up game is as good as his regular game, and you quickly find out it is. He gets the best of you on a few hands early on and takes a lead, so you dig in your heels and fight back and play the best poker you possibly can...and you come back..you're in the lead. It's about the same size lead he had on you a while ago. Momentum is on your side, and you think you only need to keep it up for a little longer and you can back him into a corner and take him out. You catch a hand, top two pair. He raised pre flop and he bets out after the flop, so you just call, letting him get pot committed and in turn hang himself. His money goes all in after the turn, you call of course, expecting to see yourself way ahead after the cards are flipped up. It's a dangerous board. There is a possible straight and a possible flush, but heads up with top two pair you gotta go with it no matter what. You think at best he has one pair or is on a draw........no, he already has the straight. You double him up and you've gone from victory to being in a hole yourself. Now you're not only mentally drained, but very disheartened. It's hard to put up much of a fight after that. You find yourself being more passive, folding to raises pre flop...you're just waiting for that miracle hand that will bail you out...but it doesn't come. Finally you're quite short stacked. You just push pre flop a couple of times, and he folds. He knows he doesn't have to call anytime soon. Finally the third time you push he shows up with a better hand than you...and it holds. Game over. You were beaten, plain and simple. Nobody sucked out, it wasn't spectacular...just a slow, painful death. That's what just happened to me. I'm sure it has happened to just about every experienced tournament player. I'm dealing with it by writing this, and I'm also done with poker for the night. How do you handle something like this?

Get some sleep, wake up, and go win the next one.

[jayvegas420 0]

gg

[Dirtydutch 8]

Also:

...neither of you give a damn about 2nd place. You have to win, you need it more than anything.

Are you telling me that both of you stallions were playing for the win? Wow, that's ballsy. ...Like that $12 of freeroll equity was worth the risk, because no one remembers who came in second in a nine man tourny.

[CardWarfare 4]

Also:Are you telling me that both of you stallions were playing for the win? Wow, that's ballsy. ...Like that $12 of freeroll equity was worth the risk, because no one remembers who came in second in a nine man tourny.

Bahahahahaha...Glad I could get ya started on the warpath Dutch.

[Flushgarden 0]

Also:Are you telling me that both of you stallions were playing for the win? Wow, that's ballsy. ...Like that $12 of freeroll equity was worth the risk, because no one remembers who came in second in a nine man tourny.

Yes...yes it was a 9 man freeroll with a $12 prize pool. Howd you know?

[TheCorporation3 0]

Yes...yes it was a 9 man freeroll with a $12 prize pool. Howd you know?

$ hit, lucky guess I assume. He's good.

[etip 0]

I know the feeling exactly. Has happened to me almost just like that once or twice. Personally I was lucky enough to book a win (by beating out a formidable opponent heads-up) before I booked a 2nd place finish, so I used to just look back on that win as proof that I definitely do have what it takes to win.So I would recommend doing that, OR if you haven't had a big win like that, then that should give you motivation to take it down next time. But don't get discouraged if you don't get another opportunity anytime soon. Situations like that are rare (in big multis, that is -- it shouldn't be too hard to get back there in most sit n gos). Just accept that fact without letting that knowledge get to you at crunch time (continue to play fearlessly).Also, I don't think you're being too "romantic" about poker at all. After all, isn't the feeling of competition the immediate attraction to poker for a lot of people? It was for me, and I still love tournaments for that reason.

[jooka 0]

How do you handle something like this?

heads up is a beast of a game that not only do you have to play your best but the cards have to fall in place at the same time, unless you are ridiculous deepstacked. You 2 could play the same game 10 more times and still not find a clear "who is better" type of result.

[TheCorporation3 0]

Have you ever just had an epic battle with somebody, say at the final table of a tournament or at the end multi table SNG?

In the Dave Chapelle episode about Sesame Street.."That is the gayest $ hit I have ever heard."

[Madrox 0]

I have these battles with the best player in my home game all the time. Anytime we happen to get heads-up actually, which is a large percentage of the time.We play for pretty small stakes, but we learn more from discussing each other's play afterwards than anything else. I started out a much better player, but through teaching him some key concepts, he's definitely catching up. He's gotten the best of me heads up the last two times we've played, although Sunday night we both admitted that we played like **** (aka passive as hell, which is nothing like we usually play), and ended up splitting the prize money down the middle.Yeah though...it's a lot of fun to have someone who can challenge you and help you look inward and improve your own game. It's always for small stakes, but we battle like we're playing HU at the end of a major 10k tourney.Good times.

[Flushgarden 0]

I know the feeling exactly. Has happened to me almost just like that once or twice. Personally I was lucky enough to book a win (by beating out a formidable opponent heads-up) before I booked a 2nd place finish, so I used to just look back on that win as proof that I definitely do have what it takes to win.So I would recommend doing that, OR if you haven't had a big win like that, then that should give you motivation to take it down next time. But don't get discouraged if you don't get another opportunity anytime soon. Situations like that are rare (in big multis, that is -- it shouldn't be too hard to get back there in most sit n gos). Just accept that fact without letting that knowledge get to you at crunch time (continue to play fearlessly).Also, I don't think you're being too "romantic" about poker at all. After all, isn't the feeling of competition the immediate attraction to poker for a lot of people? It was for me, and I still love tournaments for that reason.

I've won plenty of MTTs. No huge scores but I've won 6 or 7 smaller tourneys. It just sucks to put so much time and effort into something and to have it in your hand and then lose it. I know I was being a little overdramatic, but I love poker...why write about it in a bland way?

[TheCorporation3 0]

I love poker...why write about it in a bland way?

I love you

[Flushgarden 0]

I love you

[etip 0]

I've won plenty of MTTs. No huge scores but I've won 6 or 7 smaller tourneys. It just sucks to put so much time and effort into something and to have it in your hand and then lose it. I know I was being a little overdramatic, but I love poker...why write about it in a bland way?

Agreed. It does suck. But like I said at least you know that you can and have won similar "battles" before. But, hey, congrats on getting second this particular time!(Also, as many people have said, there are so many things that can go wrong playing heads-up. Your decision to just call on the flop may have induced an all-in bluff on a nothing card any other time, who knows? So much is dependant on luck heads-up, and top two pair against a straight is pretty unlucky in a very general sense.)

[etip 0]

I see your results on Party (pokerdb) - very impressive. You must play ALL the time though lol. Anyway you should step up to $20 multis, beating out those huge fields like you have is impressive.

[Flushgarden 0]

I see your results on Party (pokerdb) - very impressive. You must play ALL the time though lol. Anyway you should step up to $20 multis, beating out those huge fields like you have is impressive.

lol, if you looked me up on thepokerdb then you saw that 3rd place out of 1500 in a $1 tourney from the other day. That was me teaching my wife to play. She was in control (with help from me) until we got deep, then I took over. I don't nomally play in those anymore. lol It was only for her. I play mostly on stars now too.

[TheCinciKid 0]

I actually got heads-up in a SnG once with a player that I started thinking was a bot. This player pretty much did absolutely everything right, it was one of the best heads-up battles I've ever played. Almost as if he could see my cards the whole time. He ended up beating me and I don't think he was a bot, but I certainly know the feeling of getting flat outplayed at the end of a SnG.

[CBFalcon 0]

No. I have never had that specific scenario happen to me.

[Mercury69 3]

Been there, won that.

[kkcountry 0]

are you posting this here, looking for your heads up man-crush, hoping he'll reply, waiting to embrace you?

[quadaces 0]

Have you ever just had an epic battle with somebody, say at the final table of a tournament or at the end multi table SNG? You're used to fields of donks and playing aginst people who luckboxed their way there into the late stages, but as the field narrows you get a sense that this person to your right is pretty good, maybe close to as good as you. He's doing things that you would do when you would do them. Constantly applying pressure but never risking large portions of his stack without having the best of the situation. People are dropping out one by one and everybodys stacks are shrinking except his and yours, and finally, after hours of a very long very hard battle, you're heads up...and now the real war starts. You're about even in chips, and neither of you give a damn about 2nd place. You have to win, you need it more than anything. You start out agressive, as always. You want to see if his heads up game is as good as his regular game, and you quickly find out it is. He gets the best of you on a few hands early on and takes a lead, so you dig in your heels and fight back and play the best poker you possibly can...and you come back..you're in the lead. It's about the same size lead he had on you a while ago. Momentum is on your side, and you think you only need to keep it up for a little longer and you can back him into a corner and take him out. You catch a hand, top two pair. He raised pre flop and he bets out after the flop, so you just call, letting him get pot committed and in turn hang himself. His money goes all in after the turn, you call of course, expecting to see yourself way ahead after the cards are flipped up. It's a dangerous board. There is a possible straight and a possible flush, but heads up with top two pair you gotta go with it no matter what. You think at best he has one pair or is on a draw........no, he already has the straight. You double him up and you've gone from victory to being in a hole yourself. Now you're not only mentally drained, but very disheartened. It's hard to put up much of a fight after that. You find yourself being more passive, folding to raises pre flop...you're just waiting for that miracle hand that will bail you out...but it doesn't come. Finally you're quite short stacked. You just push pre flop a couple of times, and he folds. He knows he doesn't have to call anytime soon. Finally the third time you push he shows up with a better hand than you...and it holds. Game over. You were beaten, plain and simple. Nobody sucked out, it wasn't spectacular...just a slow, painful death. That's what just happened to me. I'm sure it has happened to just about every experienced tournament player. I'm dealing with it by writing this, and I'm also done with poker for the night. How do you handle something like this?

You should go fu.cking kill yourself for trying to trap with 2 pair