christian

[StonedViper 0]

As for the number thing, just be wary that 99% is a lot more than, say, using the words "a lot". Some people truly believe the percentage is 99, some people just throw out a high number. It's hard to tell.

Very true, i apologize

[Shooter_McGavin 0]

I am Jewish. Can anyone tell me what the New Testament says about playing pocket Jacks in late position with a caller and a raise?

[BetItAll33 0]

if that's how you view things, then how do you manage to go about your daily life?sometimes someone's word is all we have... and when its a reputable scientist observing and recording mathematically explained phenomena, im willing to accept his observations.

These things don't have an impact on my daily life. I'm not sure I understand that question. The point I made as that you claim to not understand faith, yet you enlist your trust in things that you've never seen or don't understand. Do you believe in Einstein's Theory of Relativity? Remember, Einstein was proven wrong on many counts after his death. I would definitely think he qualifies as a " reputable scientist observing and recording mathematically explained phenomena".

sometimes someone's word is all we have

I think you're beginning to understand faith.

These things don't have an impact on my daily life. I'm not sure I understand that question.the attitudeit appears you were trying to trap me into the whole faith issue.i never said i didnt understand faith.im not discounting the christian faith.. i am still undecided. i dislike organized religion. i feel like there is a higher power at the time, but i find my scientific side laughing at that.... as a 19 year old i realize i will find my true beliefs eventuallythat's my exact quote on my stance on religion... it can be seen above in this thread.i am not doubting the existence of your god, and i am curious as to what you are trying to prove... this whole conversation simply started as i was pointing out scientific fact behind your comments. but hey.. im 20 in a few days. maybe i'll "wake up" as a christian soon.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to trap you on the faith issue. I thought you were agreeing with Filesharer's view of human perception... the whole orange on the head thing. I'm trying to keep up with this in-depth discussion while I'm at work... :roll:

[Nimbletoe 0]

I am Jewish. Can anyone tell me what the New Testament says about playing pocket Jacks in late position with a caller and a raise?

I think it says something like, it depends on the type of player that raised. If it's a super tight player, depending on the size of the raise i'd probably call. Otherwise, reraise. But I could be wrong!

[jayistheman 0]

I am Jewish. Can anyone tell me what the New Testament says about playing pocket Jacks in late position with a caller and a raise?

im pretty sure it says to smooth call in NL and use position to your advantage post flop... (i know the old testament doesnt cover NL)im pretty sure that the old testament has the limit play.... raise it up and try to isolate the initial raiser i guess.... not the best limit hold em player

[jayistheman 0]

if that's how you view things, then how do you manage to go about your daily life?sometimes someone's word is all we have... and when its a reputable scientist observing and recording mathematically explained phenomena, im willing to accept his observations.

These things don't have an impact on my daily life. I'm not sure I understand that question. The point I made as that you claim to not understand faith, yet you enlist your trust in things that you've never seen or don't understand. Do you believe in Einstein's Theory of Relativity? Remember, Einstein was proven wrong on many counts after his death. I would definitely think he qualifies as a " reputable scientist observing and recording mathematically explained phenomena".

sometimes someone's word is all we have

I think you're beginning to understand faith.

These things don't have an impact on my daily life. I'm not sure I understand that question.the attitudeit appears you were trying to trap me into the whole faith issue.i never said i didnt understand faith.im not discounting the christian faith.. i am still undecided. i dislike organized religion. i feel like there is a higher power at the time, but i find my scientific side laughing at that.... as a 19 year old i realize i will find my true beliefs eventuallythat's my exact quote on my stance on religion... it can be seen above in this thread.i am not doubting the existence of your god, and i am curious as to what you are trying to prove... this whole conversation simply started as i was pointing out scientific fact behind your comments. but hey.. im 20 in a few days. maybe i'll "wake up" as a christian soon.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to trap you on the faith issue. I thought you were agreeing with Filesharer's view of human perception... the whole orange on the head thing. I'm trying to keep up with this in-depth discussion while I'm at work... :roll:

its ok... i made a "good point" comment to the reply to his orange analogy..... the one that explained how an agnostic would feel..

[Guest]

did everyone suddenly get off this thread and go to church?

[MDXS 0]

Excellent link to the atoms thing. I was certain that I had seen atoms arranged to form "IBM," but had no source to back it up...And speaking of having no source to back anything up, it was my understanding that three black holes have been observed. All three are in binary star systems where one star is, well, a star, and the other a black hole. It has been observed that matter from the star is constantly being sucked into what looks like nothingness. Since the stars orbit each other, the direction of the matter is constantly changing. Again, I have no source on this, so consider it critically.Oh, and Shermer is an excellent author. I encourage everyone to read what he writes.

[MDXS 0]

I should add to my last post that the black holes were observed indirectly. You can't observe a black hole for many reasons, which definitely don't need to be examined here.

[Nimbletoe 0]

did everyone suddenly get off this thread and go to church?

Your contribution to this thread has been wonderful. I only hope that you contribute like this in other areas of your life. :roll:

[Guest]

To MDXS, I just have to say that Opeth rules!

[hoof31 0]

How do you guys play ace king suited before the flop?

[Guest]

sorry i just thought it was common sense that dinosaurs and homosapiens didn't co-exist together in a historical setting. my apologies also for bringing up the issues of homosexuality and physical discipline. it must have been the preaching. yeah it was the preaching.

[Filesharer 0]

What is the difference between cult and religion?

cult - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

There is, of course, no difference

Do you have a hard time understanding words, or are you just trying to cause trouble? Define how someone who goes to church once a week lives in an "unconventional manner", or is under the guidance of an authoritarian.

Jesus led a group of disciples, as far as I can recollect. They all followed his word. He walked about the place with a group of ordinary people that he converted along the way, living as a closely knit group (i think). It was no different to a modern-day cult. How can you not see that?

What an absurd argument. Comparing how people lived back then to how cults operate now, or recently... how can you keep a straight face? Do I even have to go into the fact that there are no disciples now? Families don't live in close quarters? His disicples served a different purpose for God.Come on man, think about it. Comparing anything modern day to something 2000 years ago should have been your first clue that maybe you have the wrong viewpoint on religion.

Whoa! There are no disciples now? David Koresh had a load of them. The Jones guy in Guyana had them.What is wrong with comparing now and 2000 years ago? I don't get it. What makes you think that cults operated differently 2000 years ago?

[Abbaddabba 0]

This is the best thing since a couple of potentially retarded children discussed the implications of abortion laws on a videogame message board.FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[iveyfan30 0]

the diffrence between cult and religion is the cult's membership dues are cheaper,and theres no singing...

[Filesharer 0]

As an agnostic, here is why Christianity makes me angry. Say you know someone who says that they have an orange on their head, even though they don't. It's plainly not there. It is blatantly obvious to everybody that there is no orange on your friend's head. He insists there is though, and no matter how much logical reasoning you use to try and convince him that there is no orange on his head, he will reply "there's an orange on my head, ok, there just is".He isn't hurting anyone by believing that there is an orange on his head, but nevertheless, if you have to constantly listen to him tell you that there is, indeed, an orange on his head, eventually you will get a bit angry. You won't be able to help it. His complete and utter disregard for logic will get on your nerves, eventually. Because it's just so, so, stupid.

Humans have limited perception, but through faith your friend believes in things that he can't necessarily see. Similarly, you probably believe in the existence of atoms, even though you've never seen one first hand - only read about them in books.

This is a completely ridiculous comparison. I've never seen a lion either.

Have black holes been scientifically proved to exist? I have no idea, but if they have been proved to exist, then I believe in them. At least all the evidence isn't pointing to them not existing. Atoms, as far as I know, have been scientifically observed.How is it ridiculous? Is it because everyone KNOWS that atoms exist? What if I had used 'quarks' instead? (I didn't because some people wouldn't be familiar with the term) What if I had used 'black holes'? Do you believe in them? Is it through faith?

Have black holes been scientifically proved to exist? I have no idea, but if they have been proved to exist, then I believe in them. At least all the evidence isn't pointing to them not existing. Atoms, as far as I know, have been scientifically observed.

black holes have not been scientifically proven to exist. However, many things that have been scientifically "proven", have later been found to be false. My point is that you are essentially putting your "faith" in a chosen member(s) of the scientific community.Atoms have been observed.

Well yeah, if I haven't observed the phenomenon myself, I would be taking someone's word for it. But I probably wouldn't take someone's word for it in the first place if I found it to be illogical. For example, atoms. I can see no reason why things might not be made up of atoms. I would never have thought about them if I was never told they existed, but now that I've heard about them, I can imagine that they might exist.Jesus being the son of some almighty being, and then rising from the dead? This runs contrary to everything that I have observed during my short time on earth. Furthermore, supposing that it is, as I am certain, complete nonsense, I can see clearly the reasons why people choose to believe it despite the illogicality of it. This is circumstantial(or whatever the term is), but it's just the final confirmation.

[MDXS 0]

To MDXS, I just have to say that Opeth rules!

Damn straight. They go back into the studio on the ides of March with a US tour to follow.

[gadjet 11]

Wow, this is really amazing… I'd like to make two points. The fact alone that this topic creates such an incredible hype/debate to me speaks of the importance and reality of the issue. It's something that is a crucial part of our human nature the whole religious debate. I think just from the sheer volume of responses I think it can be concluded that this is an important topic and it's really important to look into the debate for yourself. I urge you all just to make the effort to actively look into your beliefs, a very big danger is apathy, not caring what goes on. I'd once again you to read DN's recommended reading… he even says he'll buy it for you and send it to you… I encourage you to remain openminded when weighing the evidence. It's obvious as you read these threads that people are getting so stuck in their opinions that they are willing to defend them to the point where they look ridiculous. From Smash's bitterness to JacktheCat's misguided random factual "evidence" everyone's really passionate about it. This has been a great thread, a lot to read but very passionate and real, I've appreciated JayisTheMan's honesty especially. Personally I am a Christian and consider it a very strong personal belief, I have somewhat of a distaste for the Church in a similar sense that most do I think… I'd also like to say that while JacktheCat has her own beliefs and a strong faith, I think she is misguided in many of her factual supports and her debating skills are not the best, Jack I think a better approach for you would be to just be honest with your own personal life experience rather than quoting scripture at everyone and giving support like they found a humans footprint in a dinosaurs once… And finally, in response to Christianity being the one true religion, I think this a topic for a whole new thread… (Or forum lol) but here's my thoughts… I believe God is seeking a personal relationship with each of us, I believe that's why he created the world and us in it. God created us with the choice to love Him, this is why you'd have hear so much about free will in your searches it is the choice of turning towards or away from God that is the foundational difference setting it apart from other religions… I believe that a knowledge of who Jesus was and an acceptance of his forgiveness is important, but I would never debate that someone as pure as Ghandi would not be in heaven. An active life serving God is a personal relationship. So in my mind anyone can be a Christian if they are genuinely seeking a life of relationship with God, but it's not for me to judge. Many of these religions you list do not have this as their goal. There are many people within these religioins who may have a personal relationship with God, just as there are many who claim the name of Christ (TV evangelists etc.) who are completely off base with their beliefs… I believe that this is all out of our hands, so there's little point in arguing who and how you are actually saved, but God is very real and He wants to be in personal relationship with us. I'd appreciate any response to be PM'ed to me too because this thread is getting pretty huge, I'll discuss or debate any of the above or related stuff with any of you though.

[obs 0]

I can see evidence both for and against the existance of a god. Either way though, it wouldn't affect my actions. However, I really see no need to go on bashing someone else for what they believe. The only thing I dislike is people who try to convert me or tell me what is right or wrong. Something some of you feel the need to do to the OP here.That being said, this is one of my favorite religious quotes:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."-Stephen Roberts

[AvoidReality 0]

i think i definitely have to go with Smash and the others on this one. Not that I have any problems with Christians, but i find many major issues with Christianity, the Bible, and the hyprocracy of the Church in general. I really have no bad blood towards Christians themselves, i just don't buy into that argument. Christianity is a mythology. One day like all others before it(in my opinion) it will be a thing of the past. The Bible was written as a tool to spread propaganda and unite an empire (fact). i'm not saying the stories are not based in truth (based mind you) but they are certainly only a small and very misleading picture of that time period. I mean the bible was edited by Constantinople I believe who was a pagan himself but wanted to unite his people and new he had to appease the Christains so he made Jesus the son of God so that the Bible would carry some mystical power. One of my majors was in literature, i studied the bible one semester as a historical text in context with that society and I really believe that is was just a tool to bring together a kingdom and create a unified religion throughout an empire. Regardless i am an atheist.I believe in the collective unconscious.just my two cents.although i would be interested in checking out the book that Daniel talked about it sounds kind of interesting.

Well said sir

[natedog04 0]

This was already touched on briefly, but I fell strongly enough about the issue to emerge from the conference shadows. A). This conversation has little or nothing to do with poker and should be reserved to private conversations and church. You didn't want to preach but you have damn near incited a riot with a post four pages long.B). The people that have posted about the historical inncuracy of Jesus are mostly correct. Jesus of Nazareth is a common mistake made by people. It is actually Jesus the Nazarean, which would mean Jesus was a Jewish radical seeking his secular throne from Rome, as he was a descendant of David. He was put to death after 300 Roman soldiers captured him. He was put to death according to Roman law, just like a political revolutionary would be.I could go on but I'll try to keep it brief.The Christian Church was created by Paul, St. Augustine, The emperor Constantine, and St. Thomas Aquinas actually wrote what was approved as the Christian morality in 1879 by the Pope. St. Thomas Aquinas based his writings on the teaching of Plato and Aristotle.The Christian Church has been the most powerful non-government entity for two thousand years. They have based their religion on mythology that was accepted before Jesus and in order to unify people the Church used these ideas to unify the Pagans. The Nazarean political party actively tried to stop Paul from spreading what they considered to be blasphemous, they were lead by Jesus' brother James.Something to think about.Nate

[natedog04 0]

Oops, I meant to put in the reason they are so powerful is not because they are divine, but because they rule through corruption and fear. They discourage the pursuit of knowledge, and they conveniently left out the Gospels that contradict or endanger what they put in the Bible. They have the wealth to supress the truth and the power to deny its truth, even if it is true.Great example, The Pope got a tracheotomy because of the flu, right, the flu lasts for 7 to 10 days. More disinformation courtesy of the Vatican. Take Care. Nate

[hoof31 0]

I always seem to loose with pocket aces

[Mattnxtc 0]

After reading natedoggs comments all i could say was wow. He seems to choose to ignore or not know quite a bit of history surrounding the Bible. There were actually several other Apostles besides Paul and all their books were written about the same time. As for Constantine. The only reason people make a big deal of it now is b/c of the Davinci code. Had that book not been written people wouldnt be using this argument. There is great historical evidence that the Christian community was thriving well before he laid down any edict. Several of the Books of the Bible were recognized well before that time. Paul recognized Luke's Gospel, and by AD 95 8 books were already being recognized as being from God. At the very latest of about AD 235 the majority of the New Testament was already being recognized as from God. with majority being recognized by AD 185. So about a hundred years later was when these specific books were being recognized. Now that might say o well thats a lot of time. But these letters were all over Europe and Asia and they defiantly didnt have very good modes of transportation. So things didnt travel as fast as they did here. As for Paul being a Church builder? yeah he defiantly was a key missionary. But he like all Jews went to Temple to worship God. So why wouldnt that be a part of worshipping God? Just as you have, people tend to associate Catholicism of today with the original Catholicism and with Christianity in general. Well there are quite a few differences. It was over time that the Catholic Church began to change thier ways to what the are now. What must be understood though is that what was the original intent was pure. Most back then couldnt read so there wasnt a point for a written Bible therefore images were made to to help people with thier faith. Well over time this got off base and led to worshipping the images and what not. It was these changes that led to Reformation which was when people restarted getting back to what the original beliefs were. As for your claims about Jesus. Well I really dont have a clue where you got those from. Lets just say ill go ahead and believe the most document ancient writing of all over the one you have. An interesting side note...Not to long ago a guy was off searching for gold and he ran across some old text. Turns out it was what are now called teh Dead sea Scrolls. These came several hundred years before Christ. Well besides a few misplaced comas and what not. There was no difference between it and text written about a 1000 years later. So to say that the Bible has been changed over time seems to go against proof but I guess you can believe what you want