Folding A Big Boat ?

[Viper_13 0]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxBB ($7.70)UTG ($24.90)UTG+1 ($23.36)UTG+2 ($21.65)MP1 ($26.97)MP2 ($27.35)MP3 ($23.65)CO ($9.50)Button ($33.56)Hero ($28.26)Preflop: Hero is SB with Ac, Ah. Hero posts a blind of $0.10. 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero (poster) raises to $0.9, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.75, MP3 calls $0.75.Flop: ($3.25) Qs, 8h, Qc (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets $1, Hero raises to $3, MP1 calls $3, MP3 calls $2.Turn: ($12.25) 9s (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.River: ($12.25) Qh (3 players)Hero bets $5, MP1 raises to $10, MP3 calls $10, Hero ???After the flop betting, I thought MP1 had a queen. The river made me question this. I don't know if leading on the flop would have given me any more info. I guess my problem is when the Q hits the river, do I stay with my original read?Any comments concerning any street would be appreciated.Edit Results: MP1 QdJc, MP3 4h4c

[srblan 0]

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that one of the two has the queen. Without knowing more about the players, I'd probably try to get away from the hand. Also, I think I'd err on the side of overbetting preflop, hoping that someone puts you on a steal raise.I'd prefer you lead out on the flop, but it's not a huge mistake. However, your raise is too small to get anybody out.I'm not so sure about the bet on the river though, what is your goal? Are you value betting? Not likely. Are you trying to steal? You could have the best hand, I don't see a reason to try for a steal. Trying to get information? I think the flop gave you the information you were looking for. If you are determined to see a showdown (I'd be looking for one as cheaply as possible), I'd think check-call would be a better alternative.

[Scott3705 0]

I'm not so sure about the bet on the river though, what is your goal? Are you value betting? Not likely. Are you trying to steal? You could have the best hand, I don't see a reason to try for a steal. Trying to get information? I think the flop gave you the information you were looking for. If you are determined to see a showdown (I'd be looking for one as cheaply as possible), I'd think check-call would be a better alternative.

I don't hate flop. Being in the blinds and raising, you have broadcast your hand that you don't have a Queen. Leading allows some one to steal from you cheeply while C/ring will take much more guts as the pot gets bigger. It also gives you 100% information as far as your opponents holdings at little bit more expensive price than a lead would be. I do think it has to be a larger raise.River... bad bet for reasons cited above.Edit: I really don't care that the 3rd queen came. it gives me more reason to call, but no reason more reason to bet.Edit2: "I don't hate flop... not preflop"

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

Do not fold. You have 2nd nuts. Think about how they each played this hand. Would they have played it the way they did if they held a Q?MP1 would not have checked the turn with top set on a draw heavy board.MP3 definitely would not have checked the turn with top set.If you're struggling between your read and the fact that you have a huge hand, make the in-between play and just call for a showdown.It's possible that one or both villains poorly misplayed their hands, but you should to be willing to risk all of your chips in play to win in small stakes NL poker. What I'm saying is that you have to raise all your chips in this spot. You have 2nd nuts AND both villains' play suggests that they do not have the Q AND it is only half your stack to see a showdown. You really should raise all your chips here, and folding is out of the question.

[srblan 0]

I don't hate preflop. Being in the blinds and raising, you have broadcast your hand that you don't have a Queen. Leading allows some one to steal from you cheeply while C/ring will take much more guts as the pot gets bigger. It also gives you 100% information as far as your opponents holdings at little bit more expensive price than a lead would be. I do think it has to be a larger raise.River... bad bet for reasons cited above.Edit: I really don't care that the 3rd queen came. it gives me more reason to call, but no reason more reason to bet.

I don't hate preflop either, but knowing the tendencies of players at this limit, it's fairly safe to assume they'd call a slightly bigger bet than just pot size. The fact of the matter is that on the flop, your checkraise doesn't really give you any information, since you got called in both places. I'm honestly confused as to what the guy without the queen has (assuming one of them has the queen).

Do not fold. You have 2nd nuts. Think about how they each played this hand. Would they have played it the way they did if they held a Q?MP1 would not have checked the turn with top set on a draw heavy board.MP3 definitely would not have checked the turn with top set.If you're struggling between your read and the fact that you have a huge hand, make the in-between play and just call for a showdown.It's possible that one or both villains poorly misplayed their hands, but you should to be willing to risk all of your chips in play to win in small stakes NL poker. What I'm saying is that you have to raise all your chips in this spot. You have 2nd nuts AND both villains' play suggests that they do not have the Q AND it is only half your stack to see a showdown. You really should raise all your chips here, and folding is out of the question.

They'd check with Q8 or Q9 on the turn. Also, a lot of players don't have the sense to protect a hand like trips at these limits. I really hate raising here for the simple reason that you're likely only getting called by a queen. The minraise at low-limits is almost always for value in a spot like this.

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

I don't hate preflop either, but knowing the tendencies of players at this limit, it's fairly safe to assume they'd call a slightly bigger bet than just pot size. The fact of the matter is that on the flop, your checkraise doesn't really give you any information, since you got called in both places. I'm honestly confused as to what the guy without the queen has (assuming one of them has the queen).They'd check with Q8 or Q9 on the turn. Also, a lot of players don't have the sense to protect a hand like trips at these limits. I really hate raising here for the simple reason that you're likely only getting called by a queen. The minraise at low-limits is almost always for value in a spot like this.

Yeah, you're right, either could check turn with Q8 or Q9. I didn't even think about that. Keep me honest . But my point still stands that we have the second nuts, and it still takes the case Q. If you're not willing to go broke here, you're not willing to go broke in many spots.

[rusmac31 0]

Preflop: is ok...you probably could've bet a little bigger after the limpers but I'm ok with $1 bet, you want some action with AA and against 2 players you are ok.Flop: I don't mind the check raise as at these limits, many players will bet their pair of 8's thinking that it's good. The fact that MP1 calls a raise and re-raise would make me think twice, but I've seen many players at this level call with pair of 8's, JJ, 1010, 99, even J10.Plus, if the guy really had a Q, you'd think he'd re-re-raise you.Turn: Checking is good...you re-raised and you got 2 callers. If either of them had a Q or had a set, they missed an opportunity to bet behind you.River: You have to call this bet 100% of the time and I'd even consider raising as the only hand you lose to is Qx and you beat a lot of hands that would raise this river 8's, 99, 1010, JJ, KK and each of those are likely to call any raise on the river. (considering the limits)Call 70% of the time and raise 30% of the time.

[srblan 0]

Yeah, you're right, either could check turn with Q8 or Q9. I didn't even think about that. Keep me honest . But my point still stands that we have the second nuts, and it still takes the case Q. If you're not willing to go broke here, you're not willing to go broke in many spots.

The thing that screams strength here is that MP1 check-calls the flop. I've played a ton of low-limit NL, and with the players that I play against, the line taken is almost exactly what I'd expect to see from the queen (obviously not a good line, but they are playing their hand, not worried about the draws out against them).The reason that I believe MP1 checked the turn was hoping that MP3 would bet again. I honestly believe that unless MP1 is a moron, he won't minraise the river after playing the hand that way unless he has a queen. MP3 is, well, a moron. Raising with the second nuts in this case seems reckless. My aces really haven't improved, and if I had the inkling that they were no good on the flop, the extra queen on the river shouldn't cause me to chuck that idea.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Do not fold. You have 2nd nuts. Think about how they each played this hand. Would they have played it the way they did if they held a Q?MP1 would not have checked the turn with top set on a draw heavy board.MP3 definitely would not have checked the turn with top set.If you're struggling between your read and the fact that you have a huge hand, make the in-between play and just call for a showdown.It's possible that one or both villains poorly misplayed their hands, but you should to be willing to risk all of your chips in play to win in small stakes NL poker. What I'm saying is that you have to raise all your chips in this spot. You have 2nd nuts AND both villains' play suggests that they do not have the Q AND it is only half your stack to see a showdown. You really should raise all your chips here, and folding is out of the question.

Raising in all your chips here makes absolutely no sense.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Call.

[gaddyjr 0]

Pot-odds say you are obligated to call here. If either of you opponents have a Q, they played it horribly. However, that is not unheard of at this level where people think they are obligated to slow-play every single hand

[GABMAD 0]

You have to put in 5$ to win a pot over 35$...it's a definite call...you're getting over 7 to 1 on your money.

[Scott3705 0]

You have to put in 5$ to win a pot over 35$...it's a definite call...you're getting over 7 to 1 on your money.

it's a definite call. the river bet was just silly IMO tho

[XXEddie 0]

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that one of the two has the queen. Without knowing more about the players, I'd probably try to get away from the hand. Also, I think I'd err on the side of overbetting preflop, hoping that someone puts you on a steal raise.I'd prefer you lead out on the flop, but it's not a huge mistake. However, your raise is too small to get anybody out.I'm not so sure about the bet on the river though, what is your goal? Are you value betting? Not likely. Are you trying to steal? You could have the best hand, I don't see a reason to try for a steal. Trying to get information? I think the flop gave you the information you were looking for. If you are determined to see a showdown (I'd be looking for one as cheaply as possible), I'd think check-call would be a better alternative.

only MP1 can, if your MP3, and theres a bet and a min-raise to you and you have quads, are you really flat-calling

[srblan 0]

only MP1 can, if your MP3, and theres a bet and a min-raise to you and you have quads, are you really flat-calling

Yeah, when I reexamined the hand, I realized I had to put MP1 on the queen. Mp3 is just an idiot.

[Abbaddabba 0]

You dont have to put anyone on a queen.You're closing action with the second nuts getting paid 7:1 at the river.You know how often this is someone using the "i have a full house, and a full house is a good hand" mentality?

[srblan 0]

You dont have to put anyone on a queen.You're closing action with the second nuts getting paid 7:1 at the river.You know how often this is someone using the "i have a full house, and a full house is a good hand" mentality?

But a minimum raise?

[iggymcfly 0]

KK-TT could easily be thinking that they must be good when the river queen comes. No way you can fold this. Anyone with an elementary understanding of pot odds should realize that this is a call.

[srblan 0]

KK-TT could easily be thinking that they must be good when the river queen comes. No way you can fold this. Anyone with an elementary understanding of pot odds should realize that this is a call.

I understand that you can't fold, but I hate the bet and I really wish the guy with the queen had bet the turn so he could have folded then.

[XXEddie 0]

I understand that you can't fold, but I hate the bet and I really wish the guy with the queen had bet the turn so he could have folded then.

....you seriously would of folded if someone bets the turn?

[BeaverStyle 1]

I don't know if this would be considered a "crying call", but honestly, if you can't call w/ 2nd nuts here, then you're playing way too tight.The odds alone of any of them having a Q is bad, and you beat any other boat... call, and if they have the queen, then move this post to the bad beat forum.