zzz 0 Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 I am sorry you fail to realize that when youare playing poker for money and your goal is to win,that is a selfish goal. It doesn't get more obvious than that.Start thinking with your brain. Winning, among other negativequalities, is a selfish goal. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I am sorry you fail to realize that when youare playing poker for money and your goal is to win,that is a selfish goal. It doesn't get more obvious than that.Start thinking with your brain. Winning, among other negativequalities, is a selfish goal.haha...just like ur definition of good and bad competition are wrong..your entire concept is wronggood competition - competition where the playing field is fair and everyone has the ability to equally gain as well as losebad competition - when you have an unfair edge over someone (inside information)...why do u think insider information is wrong? why do you think collusion is wrong? B/c you take away competition...Your definitions are your own personaly ones...competition exists in the entire economy..people are doing it in order to benefit their company...is that considered bad competition? of course not...the problem is that your definitions while they may look good to you in your eyes fall apart under any sort of testand again the verse your are referring to out of context refers to treating others as you would have them treat you...and so far I have seen no even partial example on which playing a fair game is treating your opponent with other than the highest respect Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 haha...just like ur definition of good and bad competition are wrong..your entire concept is wronggood competition - competition where the playing field is fair and everyone has the ability to equally gain as well as losebad competition - when you have an unfair edge over someone (inside information)...why do u think insider information is wrong? why do you think collusion is wrong? B/c you take away competition...Your definitions are your own personaly ones...competition exists in the entire economy..people are doing it in order to benefit their company...is that considered bad competition? of course not...the problem is that your definitions while they may look good to you in your eyes fall apart under any sort of testand again the verse your are referring to out of context refers to treating others as you would have them treat you...and so far I have seen no even partial example on which playing a fair game is treating your opponent with other than the highest respectIf you work in a company and their main goal is to beat their rivals, that of course is wrong. If you work in a company where their main goal is to help others, that of course is right. I hoped you enjoyed this lesson of learning right from wrong. Class dismissed. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 If you work in a company and their main goal is to beat their rivals, that of course is wrong. If you work in a company where their main goal is to help others, that of course is right. I hoped you enjoyed this lesson of learning right from wrong. Class dismissed.haha this reminds me so much of LMD that i really think he made up a new name just to try to prove something...Either way your definitions are wrong...It is not ungodly to want to provide for your family. but eh...u can believe what you want. You should no proof of anything except that when you make up definitions and twist text that you can come up with a lot of ideas...Look at what Joseph Smith did..doesnt mean its right Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 zzz, are professional athletes immoral with their profession? Link to post Share on other sites
cu in 4years Dan 1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 as was stated before it is just healthy competition.but it is one of the statments that i as a christian poker player have had troubles with.i mean everyone unerstands the risk but yeah...... if someone could provide us with a good answer to this i would be grateful. i mean its no good asking a minister because they are bias toward one side of the argument. Link to post Share on other sites
Canada 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 i mean its no good asking a minister because they are bias toward one side of the argument.Where would that bias stem from?and u rnot even a christian canada...good job haha No problems.As I have stated before, I am not anti-Religion or even anti-Christian.I am simply anti-Stupidity Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 WANTING TO WIN IS SELFISH. That is not an argument that is a fact. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Exact quote from the bible. If your main goal is to win you are happy when you win and happy the other person loses. Assuming the loser wanted to win also, your feeling good is at the losers expense. Is that wrong? Lets see: "Act selfishly unto others as you would have others act selfishly unto you".Is it selfish to want the other person to lose so that you can win?Is being selfish wrong? I will let you geniuses decide. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Exact quote from the bible. If your main goal is to win you are happy when you win and happy the other person loses. Assuming the loser wanted to win also, your feeling good is at the losers expense. Is that wrong? Lets see: "Act selfishly unto others as you would have others act selfishly unto you".Is it selfish to want the other person to lose so that you can win?Is being selfish wrong? I will let you geniuses decide.again you miss the whole concept of a game. If you enter a game of any sort...there is a winner and loser. cant be avoided. If you advocate this then in your eyes no christian can ever participate in a game and thats just nonsense. Your tryin to apply something that doesnt fit. I expect that in anything I do i will be treated with the utmost respect and win or lose I expect that I will also show the utmost respect back to them. What your attempt to point to isnt a good verse...there are better verses you could point to but ill let you find them on yourselfps this really feels exactly like something lmd would say....just saying Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 again you miss the whole concept of a game. If you enter a game of any sort...there is a winner and loser. cant be avoided. If you advocate this then in your eyes no christian can ever participate in a game and thats just nonsense. Your tryin to apply something that doesnt fit. I expect that in anything I do i will be treated with the utmost respect and win or lose I expect that I will also show the utmost respect back to them. What your attempt to point to isnt a good verse...there are better verses you could point to but ill let you find them on yourselfps this really feels exactly like something lmd would say....just sayingWANTING TO WIN IS SELFISH. I don't see you arguing with that point. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 WANTING TO WIN IS SELFISH. I don't see you arguing with that point.not the point of the verse so yes i have no reason to say anything about it Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 WANTING TO WIN IS SELFISH. I don't see you arguing with that point.You know what, I just figured out your argument and you are completely right.By wanting to win, you are taking away something from somebody else which is inherently selfish.So lets see.... also, if you eat, you are eating food that somebody else could eat: selfish. If you work, you are getting paid for a job that somebody else could get paid for: selfish. If you breath, you're breathing air that somebody else could breath: selfish.So therefore, existing is selfish, so you shouldn't exist. I suggest you get started on that. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 You know what, I just figured out your argument and you are completely right.By wanting to win, you are taking away something from somebody else which is inherently selfish.So lets see.... also, if you eat, you are eating food that somebody else could eat: selfish. If you work, you are getting paid for a job that somebody else could get paid for: selfish. If you breath, you're breathing air that somebody else could breath: selfish.So therefore, existing is selfish, so you shouldn't exist. I suggest you get started on that.Yee of little brain. Please think with your brain. There is plenty of food and air to go around, you don't have to compete for that. As far as the job thing, you don't need money to survive. You only need food and water to survive and both happen to be in abundance. You don't need to compete to survive. Your argument has just been discredited completely. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Yee of little brain. Please think with your brain. There is plenty of food and air to go around, you don't have to compete for that. As far as the job thing, you don't need money to survive. You only need food and water to survive and both happen to be in abundance. You don't need to compete to survive. Your argument has just been discredited completely. Have a nice day!Ok, where do I start...Plenty of food and water to go around? Lets ask millions of starving people throughout the world if they have plenty of food. People don't die of starvation (ie thousands a day in Africa) if they have plenty of food. So, ifyou eat, you are eating food that they could be eating to survive, which is selfish.And you don't need a job to survive? Well yes, you don't. You can live in the woods and scavenge and hunt for food to survive. Do you do that? Because if not, then you must be selfish.And by the way, you should know that saying things like "your argument has just been discredited completely" when it hasn't makes you look very foolish, just for future reference. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Yee of little brain. Please think with your brain. There is plenty of food and air to go around, you don't have to compete for that. As far as the job thing, you don't need money to survive. You only need food and water to survive and both happen to be in abundance. You don't need to compete to survive. Your argument has just been discredited completely. Have a nice day!on a global level yes there is enough food..but on a local level that isnt necessarily true..therefore to be in an area where there is a lack of food is to be selfish. Also to be in an area where there is a drought and to have water would be considered selfish in the context of what you have said. What you are tryin to compare is how you should treat others with a personal motive..its like tryin to compare apples and oranges. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 on a global level yes there is enough food..but on a local level that isnt necessarily true..therefore to be in an area where there is a lack of food is to be selfish. Also to be in an area where there is a drought and to have water would be considered selfish in the context of what you have said. What you are tryin to compare is how you should treat others with a personal motive..its like tryin to compare apples and oranges.Let's think for a minute (don't hurt yourself). 2 people are dying of thirst. Only 1 cup of water available. 1 person drinks the whole cup. Selfish. The winner in terms of competition is the one who drank the water. That is how it is in all zero sum games like poker for example. The only way there can be a winner is if one person becomes selfish and drinks more than half a cup. It is possible for both to have 1/2 cup of water, but then nobody won did they. This is called unselfish. Mind boggling concept I know. Anybody who argues with this just doesn't understand this simple, yet apparantly extremely complex concept. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Let's think for a minute (don't hurt yourself). 2 people are dying of thirst. Only 1 cup of water available. 1 person drinks the whole cup. Selfish. The winner in terms of competition is the one who drank the water. That is how it is in all zero sum games like poker for example. The only way there can be a winner is if one person becomes selfish and drinks more than half a cup. It is possible for both to have 1/2 cup of water, but then nobody won did they. This is called unselfish. Mind boggling concept I know. Anybody who argues with this just doesn't understand this simple, yet apparantly extremely complex concept.haha when u create ur own rules its a great concept...which is what you have done so far...but lets take the same game and apply a different rule...in order to survive you must drink the whole cup. Now your scenerio doesn tplay out the way you want it to Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Ok, where do I start...Plenty of food and water to go around? Lets ask millions of starving people throughout the world if they have plenty of food. People don't die of starvation (ie thousands a day in Africa) if they have plenty of food. So, ifyou eat, you are eating food that they could be eating to survive, which is selfish.And you don't need a job to survive? Well yes, you don't. You can live in the woods and scavenge and hunt for food to survive. Do you do that? Because if not, then you must be selfish.And by the way, you should know that saying things like "your argument has just been discredited completely" when it hasn't makes you look very foolish, just for future reference.I am sorry you don't understand. It is a fact that there is plenty of food and water to go around. The problem is with people not sharing (being selfish) and keeping thousands of dollars in the bank while people die of starvation (ie thousands a day in Africa).Like you said you don't need a job to survive. If there is no job that suits your humble criteria of wanting to help others than their is such a thing as asking your kind neighbor to help you with your needs.You, and everyone else in the history of the human race have relied on the kindness and love of other people in order to survive. Your agrument has continued to be discredited completely. I am sorry if you still do not comprehend. Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 haha when u create ur own rules its a great concept...which is what you have done so far...but lets take the same game and apply a different rule...in order to survive you must drink the whole cup. Now your scenerio doesn tplay out the way you want it toalso, the situation doesn't make sense in the fact that in his example, one person drinks the whole cup. If they do this, there are only two possible ways for this to happen:1) They both agree that one of them should drink the whole cup or2) The one who drank it did so maliciously, ie behind the other person's back, therefore making the competition unfair, further proving Matt's point. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 haha when u create ur own rules its a great concept...which is what you have done so far...but lets take the same game and apply a different rule...in order to survive you must drink the whole cup. Now your scenerio doesn tplay out the way you want it toI would much rather die from being unselfish than live from being selfish. Unless of course you don't believe in an afterlife. Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I am sorry you don't understand. It is a fact that there is plenty of food and water to go around. The problem is with people not sharing (being selfish) and keeping thousands of dollars in the bank while people die of starvation (ie thousands a day in Africa).Like you said you don't need a job to survive. If there is no job that suits your humble criteria of wanting to help others than their is such a thing as asking your kind neighbor to help you with your needs.You, and everyone else in the history of the human race have relied on the kindness and love of other people in order to survive. Your agrument has continued to be discredited completely. I am sorry if you still do not comprehend.Point # 1: Being a condescending prick only works when you're correct, so it isn't working very well for you.Point #2: From this I gather that you have donated every extra cent you have ever made to charity, keeping yourself at the base of poverty so that others can share in your prosperity. Otherwise you'd be selfish, and a hypocrite as well. (Interestingly enough, you're typing on a computer right now. Hmm.) Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Point # 1: Being a condescending prick only works when you're correct, so it isn't working very well for you.Point #2: From this I gather that you have donated every extra cent you have ever made to charity, keeping yourself at the base of poverty so that others can share in your prosperity. Otherwise you'd be selfish, and a hypocrite as well. (Interestingly enough, you're typing on a computer right now. Hmm.)I am correct. If I had it my way then the governments of the world would take every penny they are spending on wars and spend it on fighting poverty. Without a doubt that would be the end of poverty. I pay my taxes and I vote (for an anti-war candidate). That is the most effective thing I personally can do to end poverty. Points 1 and 2 have just been discredited completely. Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Actually they haven't. Just saying that they have doesn't make it so.If you honestly believe that saving money is being selfish, then you in fact are a hypocrite and a selfish person if you yourself live above complete poverty. Paying your taxes is the best you can do? You mean there aren't literally hundreds of charities out there set up to feeding the hungry? Yeah, there are.oh, and answer this: also, the situation doesn't make sense in the fact that in his example, one person drinks the whole cup. If they do this, there are only two possible ways for this to happen:1) They both agree that one of them should drink the whole cup or2) The one who drank it did so maliciously, ie behind the other person's back, therefore making the competition unfair, further proving Matt's point. Link to post Share on other sites
sixhands 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I am sorry you fail to realize that when youare playing poker for money and your goal is to win,that is a selfish goal. It doesn't get more obvious than that.Start thinking with your brain. Winning, among other negativequalities, is a selfish goal.Yes, expecting to win may be a selfish goal but it is what you do with those winnings that separates the good from the bad.I have a very healthly competitive nature and I strive to win at everything I do. When I win however I do not shout from the rooftops "HA HA HA I WON" and when I lose I do not cry about it like a pathetic little baby. (Well maybe sometimes)No I am dignified as much in defeat as I am in victory. What is the point in competing if you are not attempting to win?I have to say that this particular argument of yours does not make any sense. You say that winning is a negative quality and is a selfish goal. So from this I can deduce that losing is a positive quality and must be shared with everyone so as not to be selfish.Screw that then, I like my negative qualities and I will just have to live with the fact that I am a selfish bastard because I LIKE winning. Link to post Share on other sites
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