hotdog da 2rd 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 haha talk about digging dirt, man don't mess w/ mark33f. i always believe that the first WSOP TOC should be based on braclets ownership. just count the braclets and throw them in. wasn't it pretty bad for 5-time wsop winner ted forrest (2 braclets that yr) and 6-time winner men nguyen not getting in that tournament. what's the point of having all these braclets if nobody gives a crap about them.i'm also hoping to see a TOC of world champions in the future. Huck Seed, Juan Mortenson, Johnny Chan, Scotty Nguyen and the likes. Can't wait to see Huck Seed on television, that guy's got moves mere mortals couldn't dream of. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 This seems to be daniels own way of choosing who should have been there from his blog and based on this men is more deserving:1. Tournament results obviously don't seem to hold much weight. 2. Being a winning player in the high limit cash games can't be enough. 3. Respect from your peers also doesn't seem to be very important. 4. Longevity? No that wouldn't make sense either based on that list. 5. Winning the ESPN Player of the Year Award? Useless. men, he has been there longer so he was more consistent...has better results...has respect and won the player of the yearas for digging up dirt i am just trying to prove my point that it was never his place to complain Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 like i said before i see your point, i just think he deserved to be there and im sure alot of others agreed , it would have taken more than 1 guy to get another player bumped...but like i said earlier, we will have to agree to disagree... Link to post Share on other sites
Metro 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 All of these tournaments are clearly about Name Recognition. I'm not saying these people don't belong there, but others that do aren't invited because they wouldn't bring the viewership that some of the legendary names bring along with them. It's no different than sports all-star games. Most of those are based on fan voting. Fans vote for the names that are best marketed. Yes, those players belong there, but what about the players who put up great numbers in categories that don't bring with them all the limelight. You don't see the leading rebounder getting #1 votes for the game. Is it coincidence that the same people that are starting in the NBA All-Star game are also the same people that you see on tv selling you soda and underwear and all that crap? No. They have accomplished things in their sport and now have great name recognition. If Jordan was to come back out of retirement for the 50,000,000th time, I bet you he'd get votes for the All-Star teams. It's not so much a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? but more of a Hey-you-know-my-name thing. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 I agree...my last point: Daniel selects himself and Gus Hansen to play in the World Series of Poker Tournament of Champions over Phil Hellmuth.I mean Gus doesn't even have a bracelet?? Daniel should have been considred but Gus Hansen sure as hell shouldn't have been. Link to post Share on other sites
hotdog da 2rd 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 people are starting to forget that these tournaments were played in the summer of 2004. the daniel negreanu of mid 2004 and daniel negreanu at this moment are two completely different monsters. Daniel up to that point had no WTP trophy, none what so ever. Clearly he was not a contender for a poker superstars spot but if that tournament was starting today, he would be one of the favorites. i think the main issue that bummed daniel out during the wsop TOC invitation period was the fact that he is the 2004 wsop player of the yr. that clearly states that he had the best performance at the wsop that yr and he worked damn work for it. so maybe he was a little pyssed when he knew for sure that many of the players in that tourney didn't put in as much effort as he did. i would be too. besides some of that 2 million were made off daniel anyway since he had so much coverage at the 2004 wsop perliminary rounds so i really don't blame him for this. i do blame espn for dissing men nguyen, what's wrong w/ a 10 player table. u can't just uninvite someone. Link to post Share on other sites
hotdog da 2rd 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 yeah some of his rpg posts are a little childish but who am i to judge. i do the same kinda crap over there lol. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 i hope daniel isnt getting cheated in the big game though Link to post Share on other sites
Skydancing8 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Lets be honest though, Annie Duke was only in there because she is a "popular" female player. If anyone had to be bumped out it should've been her not "men the master". Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Lets be honest though, Annie Duke was only in there because she is a "popular" female player. If anyone had to be bumped out it should've been here not "men the master".well as much as i dislike annie duke, her fans will argue she won a braclet that year so she deserved to be there...i would have much rather seen men the master than annnie duke there... Link to post Share on other sites
Eclypse 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 They put in the current WSOP champion, don't you think they should've put in the current WSOP Player of the Year? It makes sense to me.By the way, here's my list of "The Greatest Poker Players in the World" (in no paticular order):1. Daniel Negreanu 2. Doyle Brunson 3. Chip Reese 4. Barry Greenstein 5. Chau Giang 6. Gus Hannson 7. Phil Ivey 8. Ted Forrest 9. John Juanda 10. Johnny ChanNotice Phil Hellmuth is not on the list. I think Phil is a GREAT player, but he is no way better than the above--just no way. Howard Lederer, Jennifer Harman, and a few others would get my vote before Phil. And, I'M A PHIL HELLMUTH FAN!Get real. Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 They put in the current WSOP champion, don't you think they should've put in the current WSOP Player of the Year? It makes sense to me.By the way, here's my list of "The Greatest Poker Players in the World" (in no paticular order):1. Daniel Negreanu 2. Doyle Brunson 3. Chip Reese 4. Barry Greenstein 5. Chau Giang 6. Gus Hannson 7. Phil Ivey 8. Ted Forrest 9. John Juanda 10. Johnny ChanNotice Phil Hellmuth is not on the list. I think Phil is a GREAT player, but he is no way better than the above--just no way. Howard Lederer, Jennifer Harman, and a few others would get my vote before Phil. And, I'M A PHIL HELLMUTH FAN!Get real.i like your list for the most part, i would swap out gus for hellmuth tho...just my opinion...not sure what im basing that on...i know gus has done better than phil has recently...but 9 braclets are hard to overlook... Link to post Share on other sites
Eclypse 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 "i like your list for the most part, i would swap out gus for hellmuth tho...just my opinion...not sure what im basing that on...i know gus has done better than phil has recently...but 9 braclets are hard to overlook..."The 9 braclets are pretty impressive--it's one of the reasons I'm a big Phil Hellmuth fan. However, I can't see Phil beating any of the people on my list in, say, a head-up game--including Gus.It's hard to think of Gus as being one of the 10 best players because he doesn't have the longevity of the others--but, he's just so talented right now. Maybe that will change after people learn to beat his somewhat unique style. But, until then, he's on my list. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Did everyone miss this was advertised as the WSOP Tournament of Champions??? As in from the World Series and not the World Poker Tour...Gus has had more recent success and its not a matter if he is better than Phil or not. In reality, reguardless of how good he is he doesnt own a bracelet...period. Not to mention Phil has 9! It does not matter that at this point in time Phil isnt a good player or Gus could beat him headsup. I mean besides the bracelets, second all time money leader only to Raymer and second in cashes! He should be the third person picked at minimum! He won two bracelets back in 2003...he isnt that washed up Please explain your basis of Hansen, and Lederer and Harman before Phil in case I missed something... Link to post Share on other sites
EgyptianMagician 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 yeah but complaining about it and doing something about it are two different things...maybe something along the lines of asking what was the criteria so I can make it next year or know why i didnt make it(now their is circuit but consider there wasnt yet at the time) ... to go as far as calling upon your "connections" to get in I think is a step over the line. if you are an athlete who is snubbed from an allstar game you dont go breaking a guys foot so you take his place....you may feel you deserve to be at that allstar game but you dont "do what you have to do"And yes I think men is more deserving than daniel here is why and I am not looking at # of tournaments played:Men the Master:4th all time cashes with 44, with 5 bracelets1.8 million in earnings1st with most top 3 finishes all time (eighteen)1997 player of yearDaniel:17 cashes w. 3 bracelets1 million in earnings2004 player of year-he ended up their because he complained and no one else probably didHe was also the WSOP POY.. and this was a freeroll hosted by the WSOP, why wouldn't they have their own POY in in it?? What sense does that make? Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 You are basing Daniel being there over Men on the fact he was WSOP POY (a one year result)...which is legitimate...then why was Doyle there, why was Ivey there? They didn't have a good "year" at the WSOP? You either base it on one year results or mutliple year results...I am going with multiple years thats me though Link to post Share on other sites
deviper 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I respect Daniel so much as a player for his skill and all he is won in the last years. Also, how down to earth he is with his new found popularity. But to say this with the upmost respect and care: He needs to freakin grow up.His comments about the Poker Superstars Invitational:I watched the Super Stars Invitatinal on NBC where the "Eight Best Players in the World" battled it out wondering, "Why, I didn't know that these were the eight best poker players in the world until today? Guess you learn something new everyday!" I get the feeling from these comments that Daniel obviously doesn't think those were the "Eight Best Players in the World". But why does he make it out like to take away from those that were there? He acts like he should have been there which is probably true but don't go ranting and taking away credit from those that were. Who cares what they call the tournament don't go crying because you weren't there.Also, he wasn't invited to play to the Tournament of Champions but used his "connections" to get in. How selfish can you be? Just because your not invited (again probably deserved to be there) don't go crying to play. You dont see professional athletes doing this when they are snubbed from All-Star games. Please follow by example.well this really sounds to me like you were just waiting for something like this. I dont no wat your problam is but i think you are the one that needs to grow up. I see nothing rong with wat danny said, his points are totaly true. I think that this is something that you should of never brought up because its silly and seems like you jsut trying to pick a fight. :evil: Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 This isnt directed personally at you viper but it is my response to what you said:Then I dont want to here one more f###ing thing about Phil Hellmuth being a baby or complainer on this forum. Because if everyone can bring up s#it on him than I have the right to bring up s#it on on Daniel. Fair is Fair. (sorry for anger) Link to post Share on other sites
deviper 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 This isnt directed personally at you viper but it is my response to what you said:Then I dont want to here one more fuc#ing thing about Phil Hellmuth being a baby or complainer on this forum. Because if everyone can bring up s#it on him than I have the right to bring up s#it on on Daniel. Fair is Fair. (sorry for anger)Im sticking with wat i said its silly and shouldnt have been brought up. Im not saying that you cant talk about danny or whoever you want i am saying that it shouldnt have been brought up. Link to post Share on other sites
elkang 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 This thread just really annoys me. I have a lot of comments in my head, but don't feel posting them would help this discussion. Mark33f, I don't know who you are but maybe we'll bump across each other at a NY poker room sometime. I believe I see where you are coming from but also believe you are mistaken in how you are reading the intent of some of the posts.If you see my face at a table, I'd be glad to hear you rail on this subject as long as I can get my 2 cents in. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Then lets not bring up anything on anyone else ( negativity). period..it was all fine and dandy ridiculing this player and that player about their attitude or actions and no one says anything about it but when someone does it about daniel its the rudest thing ever? Why or how is that fair? I am not saying anyone is an angel here or perfect because no one is myself first, but I happen to like Phil and when people say stuff about "my boy" I am gonna say stuff about theirs... Link to post Share on other sites
elkang 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 This isnt directed personally at you viper but it is my response to what you said:Then I dont want to here one more f###ing thing about Phil Hellmuth being a baby or complainer on this forum. Because if everyone can bring up s#it on him than I have the right to bring up s#it on on Daniel. Fair is Fair. (sorry for anger)No, it's not.The context is different - meaning the audience here. It's like if you're at a bar where people are hanging out watching the local team, and you start loudly bashing a local player and others who say crap about your visiting pitcher. You do have a right to bring up your points, but this is rude and somewhat inappropriate. It is even more rude, because people cannot put you in your place.In order to be fair, Phil needs to have a forum where people can bash him and Daniel. I see no reason why any of that should be sanctioned. It's just does no good.In any case, it is clear where you stand and how it is in opposition (no surprise) to the majority on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites
deviper 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Then lets not bring up anything on anyone else ( negativity). period..it was all fine and dandy ridiculing this player and that player about their attitude or actions and no one says anything about it but when someone does it about daniel its the rudest thing ever? Why or how is that fair? I am not saying anyone is an angel here or perfect because no one is myself first, but I happen to like Phil and when people say stuff about "my boy" I am gonna say stuff about theirs...ok i think the only reason people are sticking up for danny is becasue he is right. I think you misunderstood where he was coming from and took offence to it and i think you were rong in doing that. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Explain to me how he was sooooo right in deciding he should play in that freeroll over men????? And explain to me how he was right in complaining that he should be in when he know that in lobbying for his placement in that tournament would result in the getting rid of another player??????????? Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 like i said before i am a hellmuth fan..i think alot of what he does is just an act to sell books and be the "poker brat" hes a great player..nobody said dn was an angel,.you have defenitley gone out of your way to prove he;s not lol...hes just a poker player...both are great players , and yes both have faults..... Link to post Share on other sites
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