brando 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to hate on DN he is prolly my favorite pro...however I don't think his little quote (summarized) "geez i didn't know these were the 8 best players in the world" would have been said had he been picked. I find it pretty easy to infer that he thought he should have been there (which could be argued). Just came off to me as why is person x there and not me. All the people that were picked were top notch and deserved to be there, in any high profile event there will be snubs. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to hate on DN he is prolly my favorite pro...however I don't think his little quote (summarized) "geez i didn't know these were the 8 best players in the world" would have been said had he been picked. I find it pretty easy to infer that he thought he should have been there (which could be argued). Just came off to me as why is person x there and not me. All the people that were picked were top notch and deserved to be there, in any high profile event there will be snubs.he said that because there is almost no way to select the top 8 in the world. You can select 8 OF the best players in the world. Every list on the top 8 players you cause a debate. He wasnt as much complaining as he was wondering what makes them the 8 best Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 he said that because there is almost no way to select the top 8 in the world. You can select 8 OF the best players in the world. Every list on the top 8 players you cause a debate. He wasnt as much complaining as he was wondering what makes them the 8 bestI see that side too...fair enough Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I think he whining about the TOC was way out of line because men the master was removed because of daniels complaining I am not just talking about the Poker Superstars thing...phil may complain at the table but he doesnt go online and do it.not for nothing, dn deserved to be there way more than men did anyway...as far as him whinning about it, i dont think he did...i think he was upset that he wasnt getting the credit he deserved....the guy had a great year and deserved to be at that tourney..a s far as defending dn , sure this being his forum we are gonna defend him, but he hasnt dont anything that needs defending...i can see how his winning can make ppl jealous , i guess if you are not a fan of his and he is making every final table it can be frustrating.......but the bottom line is you still havent really proven your case much.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mantis666 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Its all marketing people. nothing more nothing less. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 How could complaining enough that you are selected over someone else not be considered out of line? I didnt say anything about him actually deserving to be there because he probably did. But that doesnt give him the right to complain to get someone else off and him in reguardless of how good a year he had. If you read his comment it is coming off like he thought he desrved to be there or didnt think other players should have been there. Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I think he whining about the TOC was way out of line because men the master was removed because of daniels complaining I am not just talking about the Poker Superstars thing...phil may complain at the table but he doesnt go online and do it.not for nothing, dn deserved to be there way more than men did anyway...as far as him whinning about it, i dont think he did...i think he was upset that he wasnt getting the credit he deserved....the guy had a great year and deserved to be at that tourney..a s far as defending dn , sure this being his forum we are gonna defend him, but he hasnt dont anything that needs defending...i can see how his winning can make ppl jealous , i guess if you are not a fan of his and he is making every final table it can be frustrating.......but the bottom line is you still havent really proven your case much....I think that may be more of an argument here, is that some of us took dn's comment as taking away credit from those who were there. All there deserved it and some who weren't did as well. Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I think he whining about the TOC was way out of line because men the master was removed because of daniels complaining I am not just talking about the Poker Superstars thing...phil may complain at the table but he doesnt go online and do it.not for nothing, dn deserved to be there way more than men did anyway...as far as him whinning about it, i dont think he did...i think he was upset that he wasnt getting the credit he deserved....the guy had a great year and deserved to be at that tourney..a s far as defending dn , sure this being his forum we are gonna defend him, but he hasnt dont anything that needs defending...i can see how his winning can make ppl jealous , i guess if you are not a fan of his and he is making every final table it can be frustrating.......but the bottom line is you still havent really proven your case much....I think that may be more of an argument here, is that some of us took dn's comment as taking away credit from those who were there. All there deserved it and some who weren't did as well.like i said before , i dont think questioning the method of how the 8 were picked took anything away from the ones that were...he didnt say" why did so and so make the top 8"..he was only asking what did they base the choices on...i don't see how thats a big deal....he didnt attack anyone personally by calling them out...i dont see the capital offense here guys.... Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Read Daniels reply to this post in the first place...he deliberately questions T.J. Cloutier being there so he did say something about a specific person Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Read Daniels reply to this post in the first place...he deliberately questions T.J. Cloutier being there so he did say something about a specific personthat was after the fact... he never mentioned tj till after your post...so that couldnt have been your problem...im saying before that , he never mentioned anyone by name.... Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 It was before your post and I never said it was part of my original argument nor was it part of my argument. You said that he never critisized anyone personally and I just corrected you because he did in response to my original post. Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 we are gonna have to agree to disagree, i still dont see what the big deal here is.... Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yeah I am gonna drop this argument too because it isnt going anywhere and its to hard to get a point across against daniel on his site. As for why I brought this up in the first place...I happen to really like Phil Hellmuth as a player and I know he is a baby and "cries" and complains and what not but he does take a lot crap from a lot of people (most of which is probably deserved). But Daniel isn't no quiet mouth either. I aint no Daniel hater, but his comments about the Poker Superstars Invitational really aggravated me and the way he acted about the TOC and complained to get in was out of line in my opinion and I have the right to say so as everyone else does about Phil when he does stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
hotdog da 2rd 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yeah I am gonna drop this argument too because it isnt going anywhere and its to hard to get a point across against daniel on his site. As for why I brought this up in the first place...I happen to really like Phil Hellmuth as a player and I know he is a baby and "cries" and complains and what not but he does take a lot crap from a lot of people (most of which is probably deserved). But Daniel isn't no quiet mouth either. I aint no Daniel hater, but his comments about the Poker Superstars Invitational really aggravated me and the way he acted about the TOC and complained to get in was out of line in my opinion and I have the right to say so as everyone else does about Phil when he does stuff.T.J. Cloutier shouldn't be in that blog in the first case. T.J. was invited to the Poker Superstars Invtational which he truely is. All that 8 of the best player in the world thing is brought upon by FSN and NBC. The players there can't control that.As for if T.J. is more deserving to be there then Daniel or Chau Giang, I would have to say yes. Daniel might be the hottest tournament player of 2004 but before 2004 Daniel wasn't really known for being a tournament player or crushing the side games like a Phil Ivey. T.J. on the other hand made 3 final tables in THE BIG ONE w/ runner-up finishes twice. Chau and Daniel were also there in those events but it is T.J. who keeps rising to the top and he had done so for 2 decades. Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 According to Daniel himself:So this is what I heard. The 10 players chosen are as follows:Doyle BrunsonChip ReesePhil HellmuthMen NguyenJohnny ChanTJ CloutierPhil IveyHoward LedererGreg RaymerAnnie DukeCurious as to what the criteria was to play, apparantly they did an independant poll of 300 players and asked who they thought the best players were.Of course, I don't know one person that was asked to vote in this poll and have no idea if it actually took place. If it did, I can't imagine who they asked? I'd be willing to bet that this poll never even tookplace. I didn't care so much that I wasn't involved in the SuperStars of Poker Show, but now we are talking about a freeroll for two million dollars at stake! I'm starting to wonder what you actually have to do to qualify asone of the best no limit hold'em tournament players.1. Tournament results obviously don't seem to hold much weight.2. Being a winning player in the high limit cash games can't be enough.3. Respect from your peers also doesn't seem to be very important.4. Longevity? No that wouldn't make sense either based on that list.5. Winning the ESPN Player of the Year Award? Useless.So what then, does it take to qualify for the ESPN TOC? Please enlighten me, because I have no idea.Daniel Negreanuwww.fullcontactpoker.comP.S. Sorry if this post comes off as whiny, but I'm a little frustrated and feel like I've now been "double dissed" :-)"-I believe this was posted on rec.gambling.poker forum but I found it trough a google search at big slick news or something and the "double dissed" reference could be about the Poker Superstars Invitational (I dont know though) which would mean he was complaining about not being invited to that too Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yeah I am gonna drop this argument too because it isnt going anywhere and its to hard to get a point across against daniel on his site. As for why I brought this up in the first place...I happen to really like Phil Hellmuth as a player and I know he is a baby and "cries" and complains and what not but he does take a lot crap from a lot of people (most of which is probably deserved). But Daniel isn't no quiet mouth either. I aint no Daniel hater, but his comments about the Poker Superstars Invitational really aggravated me and the way he acted about the TOC and complained to get in was out of line in my opinion and I have the right to say so as everyone else does about Phil when he does stuff.i am also a hellmuth fan...i think alot of what phil does is shtick because it sells books...nobody said daniel was an angel...im sure if you asked him he would tell you he is just as flawed as the next guy..it sounds like you had a bone to pick with dn and were gonna flame him for something no matter what...i mean if you look at what daniel has done at and away from the table , you should have no problem letting one meaningless comment put you on tilt.....i mean being a hellmuth fan you have to understand theres more than one way to look at a persons comment...and you are right you have the ability to say whatever you want, but rememebr this is dn's forum and we are gonna defend him when he's innocent...and if he waas guilty<which he's not> we will also have his back ...he's a stand up guy ...cant say the same about 95% of the population , much less the poker community..... Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Not to mention on RGP when Daniel was listing his own list for the TOC he included himself and not Phil Hellmuth??? Give me a break and admit that is ridiculous. If there is a WSOP TOC Phil should be there no matter what you think of him as a person or your personally relationship with him. Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Not to mention on RGP when Daniel was listing his own list for the TOC he included himself and not Phil Hellmuth??? Give me a break and admit that is ridiculous. If there is a WSOP TOC Phil should be there no matter what you think of him as a person or your personally relationship with him. well to be honest, i didnt see that post ....is it possible for you to post a link? Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 sorry here is a link http://www.recgroups.com/a/1/354201/ Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 sure..go to recgroups.com then you will see a box in the middle...scroll down to the category...rec.gambling.poker...go back to the side and click "search" skip the subject box and search daniel negreanu as author...aa box of results will then come up and scroll down to the post labeled "Which nine would you choose for the ESPN TOC?" by Daniel Negreanu...You cant post a link its wierd but if you dont want to go through that...here is the exact postFrom: Daniel Negreanu <anonymous@hotmail.com> Subject: Which nine would you choose for the ESPN TOC?Full headers:Path: news.easynews.com!core-easynews!newsfeed3.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!news.glorb.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!post01.iad01.newshosting.com!not-for-mailSubject: Which nine would you choose for the ESPN TOC? From: "Daniel Negreanu" <anonymous@hotmail.com>Sender: "Daniel Negreanu" <anonymous@hotmail.com>Newsgroups: rec.gambling.pokerDate: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:33:07 GMTContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitUser-Agent: RecPoker.com Web-based Newsreader v 1.0b1Organization: http://www.recpoker.com/Lines: 26Message-ID: <41157122$0$2395$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>X-Complaints-To: abuse@newshosting.com Print ArticleForward Article"I'd like to do a little research on my own, asking RGPer's who they wouldlike to see, or think deserves to play in the ESPN Tournament of Championsairing September 21st for a 2 million dollar winner take all event. Apparantly ESPN polled 300 players and came up with a list thatsurprised me a little bit. Ok, maybe a lot. Assuming that you mustinclude Greg Raymer and one woman, what would your nine look like? I havea distinct feeling that the list compiled by RGPers or any group ofknowledgeable poker players would look nothing like the list they havecome up with.I'll start:Doyle BrunsonJohnny ChanGus HansenPhil IveyJohn Juanda Howard LedererDaniel Negreanu WSOP Champ: Greg RaymerFemale: Jennifer Harman "well i see your point.....to a point...maybe he did wrinkle a few feathers.but he felt like deserved to be there <rightfully so> and yes hellmuth did deserve to be there....he was trying to start a wave of ppl saying he deserved to be there....maybe a little tacky, but when you are right you could care less about coming off tacky...that was a big money tourney and he knew alot of ppl would be watching ,so he wanted to be there...bottom line is he should have been invited and he did what he had to ...i can see how ppl can be ma about that , but in alot of ppls mind, it was a slight by the ppl running the tourney to not have invited dn to begin with...but i do see your point....i still feel dn didnt disrespect anybody by lobbying for a spot in a tourney Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 How do you consider him lobbying for his placement in the tournament when he know someone would've had to be kicked off to make room not disrespectful? Especially to men the master? Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 How do you consider him lobbying for his placement in the tournament when he know someone would've had to be kicked off to make room not disrespectful? Especially to men the master?when you feel you are more desevring you do what you have to do ...i mean do you not agree he deserved it more than men? like i said , i can see how a person that isnt a big fan of his can say that hes wrong , and maybe on a low level he is,....i think that if he deserved to be there , than its the organizers of the tourneys fault for slighting him... you are saying he should have stayed quiet and bit the bullet? maybe so, but if you really felt you deserved to be there, its easier said than done... Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 But honestly he's not running the tournament...how did he feel it was his place to say hey I deserve to be here, this person doesn't. That's just sillyAnd where is his formula/poll/anything that he came up with that would be a legit way to prove he is more deserving that one of the selected Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 But honestly he's not running the tournament...how did he feel it was his place to say hey I deserve to be here, this person doesn't. That's just sillyAnd where is his formula/poll/anything that he came up with that would be a legit way to prove he is more deserving that one of the selectedhe felt he deserved it by the player of the year race and having a great wsop...exactly he wasnt runing the event, so he tried to spark the idea that he deserved to be there....if he wasnt right, how did he end up there?im sure alot of others had the same view as he did...going by his play , dont you think he should have been there?? he had a better year than pretty much 3/4 of the players there... Link to post Share on other sites
mark33f 0 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 yeah but complaining about it and doing something about it are two different things...maybe something along the lines of asking what was the criteria so I can make it next year or know why i didnt make it(now their is circuit but consider there wasnt yet at the time) ... to go as far as calling upon your "connections" to get in I think is a step over the line. if you are an athlete who is snubbed from an allstar game you dont go breaking a guys foot so you take his place....you may feel you deserve to be at that allstar game but you dont "do what you have to do"And yes I think men is more deserving than daniel here is why and I am not looking at # of tournaments played:Men the Master:4th all time cashes with 44, with 5 bracelets1.8 million in earnings1st with most top 3 finishes all time (eighteen)1997 player of yearDaniel:17 cashes w. 3 bracelets1 million in earnings2004 player of year-he ended up their because he complained and no one else probably did Link to post Share on other sites
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