latest kk fold preflop...

[Dimmy 0]

nm

[mrdannyg 274]

likestowhine: calls $5

...?-fop

ditto -....the term weak tight comes to mind

Calling wasn't weak tight...I was trapping...if there's no ace on the flop one of them for sure is betting hard and I'm coming over the top all in, and who's going to put me on AA or KK? If i'd had AA instead of KK cold calling 5 bucks is most of the time going to win you a very large pot, although with the other large stack reraising the initial raiser I'm likely raising again with the AA hopefully catching someone with QQ or KK getting stubborn.

Wait, wait,wait - so now you were trapping with KK? So if AA would've taken you to the flop and then made a big bet, you were going to trap him with KK and come over the top? I think you'd still be behind. Now, I understand what you are trying to say, but your pre flop play is horrible here with KK. What if the flop is 7 high, you have no idea where you are in the hand, did he flop a set (in this case, did either) does one of them have AA. You have no clue where you are in the hand by trapping with KK pre flop like this.Now I suppose you're going to tell us that the vast majority of the time you would be ahead...good point...just like the one that sayd you are probably not behind to AA preflop most of the time. Give us a break Hellmuth.

If the intial guy raised, and then the reraiser had 77 or 55 or 33 or whatever on a 753 flop, well, then all the power to them for raising those PP's like that and hitting.Yes I was trapping and would have come over the top of them on a safe flop cuz at that point I'd have no reason to put them on AA....as the raises increased preflop I was given the information to put them on AA.The funniest thing about this is that I was correct in my assessment as more information came out yet I'm still trashed....its quite comical.10 out of the 12 times i've folded KK pre I HAVE seen the other guys aces...something tells me I may be able to read situations a little bit better than I'm being given credit for.I think I've gotten all in with AA against KK probably about 40 times or so...to me in those hands it was rather obvious I had AA as a lot of them i triple raised before they put me all in...sucks for them they can't make a fairly easy read.

that's the key. you implied what we are arguing - that you did not have enough information at the time to lay down KK.here's a situation:UTG limps, i am afraid of AA, so I fold KK.another guy raises, UTG now reraises, and sure enough he had aces.well, i was correct in my assessment as more information came out, no?danielp.s. pwned

[Scott3705 0]

Lol...good luck doing that. People who bluff are the ones who make me my money...thats why I love .50-1....everyone thinks its the final table of the WSOP and donate their money.I have now folded KK 12 times preflop....10 of those I've seen the AA.

There is something to what you're saying about talking about laying down a big hand so that bluffers will perceive you to be weak tight and thus play hard at you with a garbage hand. During the cardplayer webcast of the Final table at the WSOP, Phil Hellmuth was talking about this as being a strategy of his.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Lol...good luck doing that. People who bluff are the ones who make me my money...thats why I love .50-1....everyone thinks its the final table of the WSOP and donate their money.I have now folded KK 12 times preflop....10 of those I've seen the AA.

There is something to what you're saying about talking about laying down a big hand so that bluffers will perceive you to be weak tight and thus play hard at you with a garbage hand. During the cardplayer webcast of the Final table at the WSOP, Phil Hellmuth was talking about this as being a strategy of his.

I assure anyone reading this thread that I am very much not weak tight. I don't think I'd win what I do if I was in fact weak tight.

[Scott3705 0]

I assure anyone reading this thread that I am very much not weak tight. I don't think I'd win what I do if I was in fact weak tight.

I just meant that having that image can get you loose action. Didn't accusse you of being weak tight

[Chiggleslap 0]

umm, if you had played this hand correctly, you wouldn't have folded.how is this a good laydown? you would have made money on the hand if you knew who held AA.

[anselm 0]

Its not shocking most of you don't play NL or don't win.

I play NLHE and I win. This hereby qualifies me to deem you A TRUE POKER GOD. No seriously, this has been an informative thread. We've learned...:1. that "trapping" is the key to success.2. that telling your opponents what you held is a great idea.3. that jack24bauer24 is GOOD. GOD HE'S GOOD.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Its not shocking most of you don't play NL or don't win.

I play NLHE and I win. This hereby qualifies me to deem you A TRUE POKER GOD. No seriously, this has been an informative thread. We've learned...:1. that "trapping" is the key to success.2. that telling your opponents what you held is a great idea.3. that jack24bauer24 is GOOD. GOD HE'S GOOD.

I agree.

[jack24bauer24 0]

umm, if you had played this hand correctly, you wouldn't have folded.how is this a good laydown? you would have made money on the hand if you knew who held AA.

Only if it was the big stack who had QQ and if he sucked and would call an all in raise with only QQ.Sorry I didn't pick out the exact player who had AA, how stupid of me.

[Merby 3]

This hand screams of AA. Idiots love to min-raise w/ AA. This guy got to do it twice in one hand. When are people going to see min-raising is a HORRIBLE play most of the time.As for people who claim there is never a spot to fold KK, that's a bit close-minded. I've done it once, and I'm not looking for spots to fold KK, but like I have said before, there's a time and place for eveything.

Count the min raises... I count - not two - but THREE min raises. That's three times the bad play.If it were only two min raises... that's totally different. After all everyone knows that two bad plays cancel out to equal one GOOD play. - right?...anyone...?<silence>(sw)Cheers,MerbyOn a side note, I almost never chat online, so I am new to some of the abbreviations. What does (sw) stand for? I know in essence it means "just kidding". At least, that's what I have decided it means after observing its usage. Perhaps I made an incorrect conclusion based on the small statistical sampe at hand.If (sw) actually means "I WILL KILL YOU WHERE YOU STAND!", then it seems that I may have some explaining to do...

[joball33 0]

Count the min raises... I count - not two - but THREE min raises. That's three times the bad play.If it were only two min raises... that's totally different. After all everyone knows that two bad plays cancel out to equal one GOOD play. - right?...anyone...?<silence>(sw)Cheers,MerbyOn a side note, I almost never chat online, so I am new to some of the abbreviations. What does (sw) stand for? I know in essence it means "just kidding". At least, that's what I have decided it means after observing its usage. Perhaps I made an incorrect conclusion based on the small statistical sampe at hand.If (sw) actually means "I WILL KILL YOU WHERE YOU STAND!", then it seems that I may have some explaining to do...

That's it right there in the bold, well done. HAHA, actually I think the way you worded that is hilarious. Seriously though, sw mean sarcasm warning

[Merby 3]

Seriously though, sw mean sarcasm warning

Thanks

[mrdannyg 274]

likestowhine: calls $5

...?-fop

ditto -....the term weak tight comes to mind

Calling wasn't weak tight...I was trapping...if there's no ace on the flop one of them for sure is betting hard and I'm coming over the top all in, and who's going to put me on AA or KK? If i'd had AA instead of KK cold calling 5 bucks is most of the time going to win you a very large pot, although with the other large stack reraising the initial raiser I'm likely raising again with the AA hopefully catching someone with QQ or KK getting stubborn.

Wait, wait,wait - so now you were trapping with KK? So if AA would've taken you to the flop and then made a big bet, you were going to trap him with KK and come over the top? I think you'd still be behind. Now, I understand what you are trying to say, but your pre flop play is horrible here with KK. What if the flop is 7 high, you have no idea where you are in the hand, did he flop a set (in this case, did either) does one of them have AA. You have no clue where you are in the hand by trapping with KK pre flop like this.Now I suppose you're going to tell us that the vast majority of the time you would be ahead...good point...just like the one that sayd you are probably not behind to AA preflop most of the time. Give us a break Hellmuth.

If the intial guy raised, and then the reraiser had 77 or 55 or 33 or whatever on a 753 flop, well, then all the power to them for raising those PP's like that and hitting.Yes I was trapping and would have come over the top of them on a safe flop cuz at that point I'd have no reason to put them on AA....as the raises increased preflop I was given the information to put them on AA.The funniest thing about this is that I was correct in my assessment as more information came out yet I'm still trashed....its quite comical.10 out of the 12 times i've folded KK pre I HAVE seen the other guys aces...something tells me I may be able to read situations a little bit better than I'm being given credit for.I think I've gotten all in with AA against KK probably about 40 times or so...to me in those hands it was rather obvious I had AA as a lot of them i triple raised before they put me all in...sucks for them they can't make a fairly easy read.

so let me get this straight. in this situation you trap/called because you hoped the reraiser had a lower pocket pair. instead of just getting in your money against this guy as a prohibitive favourite, you just called. this way if he hits his set then you will have the pleasure of dumping the rest of your money to him, and if he misses he won't call a raise unless he's an extreme fish. the very type of extreme fish who would call a big reraise from you with a lower pocket pair.soooo basically you are not getting in your money as a huge favourite now in hopes of getting it in later as a huge favourite, so you can hopefully see an ace on the flop and fold to a continuation bet from pocket 9s.sounds good.and please, don't think you are more skilled than a retarded monkey to be able to beat $25-$100 NL. You may be good, but that accomplishment does not mean it. Perhaps you should compare your win rate against a smash system - i bet you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

[Garn 0]

So you're the cool guy that announces what he folded when the hand is still being played?

agreed. what a douche

[Chiggleslap 0]

umm, if you had played this hand correctly, you wouldn't have folded.how is this a good laydown?  you would have made money on the hand if you knew who held AA.

Only if it was the big stack who had QQ and if he sucked and would call an all in raise with only QQ.Sorry I didn't pick out the exact player who had AA, how stupid of me.

i'm just saying... it ended up being the WRONG laydown.

[Socrates 0]

likestowhine: calls $5

...?-fop

ditto -....the term weak tight comes to mind

Calling wasn't weak tight...I was trapping...if there's no ace on the flop one of them for sure is betting hard and I'm coming over the top all in, and who's going to put me on AA or KK? If i'd had AA instead of KK cold calling 5 bucks is most of the time going to win you a very large pot, although with the other large stack reraising the initial raiser I'm likely raising again with the AA hopefully catching someone with QQ or KK getting stubborn.

Wait, wait,wait - so now you were trapping with KK? So if AA would've taken you to the flop and then made a big bet, you were going to trap him with KK and come over the top? I think you'd still be behind. Now, I understand what you are trying to say, but your pre flop play is horrible here with KK. What if the flop is 7 high, you have no idea where you are in the hand, did he flop a set (in this case, did either) does one of them have AA. You have no clue where you are in the hand by trapping with KK pre flop like this.Now I suppose you're going to tell us that the vast majority of the time you would be ahead...good point...just like the one that sayd you are probably not behind to AA preflop most of the time. Give us a break Hellmuth.

If the intial guy raised, and then the reraiser had 77 or 55 or 33 or whatever on a 753 flop, well, then all the power to them for raising those PP's like that and hitting.Yes I was trapping and would have come over the top of them on a safe flop cuz at that point I'd have no reason to put them on AA....as the raises increased preflop I was given the information to put them on AA.The funniest thing about this is that I was correct in my assessment as more information came out yet I'm still trashed....its quite comical.10 out of the 12 times i've folded KK pre I HAVE seen the other guys aces...something tells me I may be able to read situations a little bit better than I'm being given credit for.I think I've gotten all in with AA against KK probably about 40 times or so...to me in those hands it was rather obvious I had AA as a lot of them i triple raised before they put me all in...sucks for them they can't make a fairly easy read.

so let me get this straight. in this situation you trap/called because you hoped the reraiser had a lower pocket pair. instead of just getting in your money against this guy as a prohibitive favourite, you just called. this way if he hits his set then you will have the pleasure of dumping the rest of your money to him, and if he misses he won't call a raise unless he's an extreme fish. the very type of extreme fish who would call a big reraise from you with a lower pocket pair.soooo basically you are not getting in your money as a huge favourite now in hopes of getting it in later as a huge favourite, so you can hopefully see an ace on the flop and fold to a continuation bet from pocket 9s.sounds good.and please, don't think you are more skilled than a retarded monkey to be able to beat $25-$100 NL. You may be good, but that accomplishment does not mean it. Perhaps you should compare your win rate against a smash system - i bet you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

I have to say I'm amazed with this thread. First JB24 told us he knew he was beat by AA, then he proceeded to tell us he was trapping with KK, even though he already knew that he was behind to AA. After that he tells us that he has been right 10 of 12 times...well I'll be damned if I can't find any pro that has laid down KK this many times and said they've been right about it pre flop. Why JB is not the best player in the universe I don't know. He has lastly claimed that he can make reads better than anyone else and that's onyl online! Can you imagine ethis guy live - I mean he must "look into your soul" - not even Hellmuth has this type of ability to "dodge bullets" (no pun intended) - JB24 I truly admire you and look forward to seeing you at every dinal table from here on out. WHile many pros have laid down KK pre flop maybe once in their life, JFarrell; I mean JB24, has managed to make this call each and every time - and that he gets to see the AA his opponents play. No one ever folds to the AA raise, he gets to see all of them! Amazing to see the least!

[SlowPlayedNuts 0]

If you were really as great as you claim and have laid down poket kings 12 times, ten of them correctly by your acount. Then why the hell are you spending your time explaining yourself and defending your play. If you honestly are a great player you don't need everyone to tell you how great your play was just go build your bankroll so you can get to a real game where you can loss it

[gkunit20 1]

Look me up anytime, as I log 1000 K hands every night.

What does this mean? One thousand one thousand hands?Oh, and you're still an idiot

[Socrates 0]

Look me up anytime, as I log 1000 K hands every night.

What does this mean? One thousand one thousand hands?Oh, and you're still an idiot

I was just thinking that 100 thousand hands a night is pretty steep - even when you are 40 tabliing.

[corndog 0]

first of all ive played a lot with jackbauer24, and i can attest that he does fold kk preflop. ever thought maybe the reason he folds it so much more is cause he plays it slower preflop than most pros would? not saying hes doing the right play, but maybe that could be a reason he does it so much more. also, i think that when the pros talk about folding kk preflop they are referring to tourneys. i think its a heck of a lot harder getting away from kk in a tourny than it is in a cash game, considering your stack, and your opponents stack compared to the blinds. but im sure every thing ive just said is wrong and all you nickel and dime experts can burn me.

[corndog 0]

Look me up anytime, as I log 1000 K hands every night.

What does this mean? One thousand one thousand hands?Oh, and you're still an idiot

I was just thinking that 100 thousand hands a night is pretty steep - even when you are 40 tabliing.

FYI,before you start making fun of someone, 1000k hands would actually work out to 1 million hands, not 100 thousand

[jwsisliving1 0]

I mostly concentrate on playing tournaments and sit&go's. From my experience with them I'd have to recommend playing pocket kings real agressively preflop. I've found that most tournaments have a huge amount of fish. I'll see people going allin preflop(pushing and calling) with KingQueen, KingJack, low to mid pocket pairs, an Ace with a decent kicker, a suited Ace and crappy kicker, etc. I know it sounds bad, but you'd be suprised how often it happens. I think the key is to know your opponent. There's a much better chance I won't push or call an allin with Kings if I know my opponent is a smart, conservative and/or tightagressive player. Those types of players know what they're doing and usually won't mess around with junk cards and bad decisions. Obviously I'd love going allin with the donkeys when I hold Cowboys. Yeah they'll pick up Aces too, but unless they get real lucky it happens alot less often. In tournaments fishes will quite often bust out long before they get the chance to have pocket rockets more than once or twice (if at all).That's just my theory. Also since I play very agressively in tournaments, if I'm doing well I'll build up alot of chips and it usually won't take that long. Point is, I love being one of the chip leaders because I have chips to burn so I'll almost never have a problem pushing or calling an allin with Kings depending on the opponent. Of course it's totally different if you see an ace on the flop. But before the flop I'll try a few coinflips. Even if I lose a race I still have chips. And if you know how to play a shortstack you can still come back to place or win the tournament.

[jwsisliving1 0]

I forgot to mention I even, on the odd occasion, see some idiots going allin with suited face cards. Some fish don't realize KingTen or KingNine suited isn't that great a hand before the flop (although they can be very good postflop type hands).

[fopkins 0]

Some fish don't realize KingTen or KingNine suited isn't that great a hand before the flop

*COUGH* TIFFANY *COUGH* :roll: "I know you're trying to push me off this hand..."Best WSOP line... ever...-fop

[AndrewBlack 0]

Kudos to OP.F uck you everyone else.