tuan le

[PAYforUSC 0]

Anyone calling Tuan Le a kid, donkey or anything else negative should take a look at his career thus far;April 18th, 2005 $ 25,000 Main Event (WPT) - No Limit Hold'em ChampionshipThird Annual Five-Star World Poker Classic, Las Vegas 1st $ 2,856,150 November 13th, 2004 $ 10,000 No Limit Hold'em Final Day - WPT2004 World Poker Finals, Mashantucket 1st $ 1,549,588 October 19th, 2004 $ 10,000 The Doyle Brunson North American No Limit Hold'em Poker Championship2004 Festa al Lago III Poker Tournament, Las Vegas 45th $ 12,000 Have YOU won over 4 million playing cards?Future railbird. Right.

with all that money from extortion & the underage sex trade, it is safe to say Tuan will be around for a while

[Swift_Psycho 1]

He still plays high stakes at Commerce... usually 400-800 stud. HE LOSES ALL THE TIME. he is an average player and I'm pretty sure he's broke or almost there. Both of his big cashes weren't that big because he was always staked. His brother Nam is a really good player and smart too. He has no ego and grinds at the 50-100 game or 80-160. Has alot of nice tourney cashes as well.

Out of curiosity, do you know if Nam also gets staked for large tourneys or if he pays his own way?

[alf13 0]

With all due respect to the author of War and peace up there......I will provide Volume 2.You do not have to be a 5000 time world champion or play 1 million / 2 million NL Holdem or own 40 WSOP bracelets to criticize or critique someones play.I DO NOT watch tv and form an opinion.....I watch it and get a feel for what type of player someone is. To form an opinion I read the transcripts of the hands he plays or actually watch them play for at least a couple hundred hands.MY OPINION of Tuan is that he is an uber aggressive Holdem player which all by itself, gives him a chance to win any tourney he enters with a little luck of course.....NOW...where he ceases to be a great or even a good player is the decisions he seems to make on a regular basis in even the two tourney's he won. A VERY WELL KNOWN POKER PRO I met once and had a conversation with told me in the course of a long conversation that you can always tell who the best players are.....they are the ones that always seem to consistently put their money in the center as a favorite. Tuan consistently does the opposite. To the point where it seems as if he is TRYING to instigate 55-45 and 60-40 DEFECIT situations. ALOT OF GAMBLE? Yes....IS fearlessness a good trait? YES.....Is consistently being a dog a trait of a good poker player? HELL NO.....This game is dictated by numbers.......and percentages....being a favorite is good....being an underdog is bad.....If you are consistently an underdog and rely on sucking out repeatedly to win....sorry...you suck.As for what I saw of him on Live at the Bike....I saw a guy burn through 50k like butter.....it looked like a nutbarring session at .05/.10.....he made horrible play after horrible play and to be honest....it really looked like chip spewing or dumping. Total disregard for money? Absolutely? It also looked like he had never played limit holdem before. Tell you what...if you tell me that he was just throwing away 50k to blow off some steam at the Bike....(by throwing away 50k) then cool. I will reserve judgement till we can judge his career down the road. Otherwise...if that is how he plays.....then I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the guy sucks.Hey...... Matusow has played with him and he says that Tuan is in the bottom 10% of any given field. I disagree...he is probably in the top 40%...which doesn't make him any better than ANY of the known "veterans" on this site.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I wonder if Tuan KNEW he was gonna win when he put a large portion of his chips with 9-9 against two all ins in last years WPT championship. I believe it was day 3 when it happened, 2 players moved all in and he called with 9-9. He was a huge underdog trailing someones kings but happen to spike a 9 on the flop.Lucky? I think so. How intelligent of a player do you think he is?

[Longshanks 0]

its unreal he has won 2 HUGE tourneys so its not all luck, but he seems to just pull some out of his butt alot, hes better than me though, but that aint sayin much

[PAYforUSC 0]

I wonder if Tuan KNEW he was gonna win when he put a large portion of his chips with 9-9 against two all ins in last years WPT championship. I believe it was day 3 when it happened' date=' 2 players moved all in and he called with 9-9. He was a huge underdog trailing someones kings but happen to spike a 9 on the flop.Lucky? I think so. How intelligent of a player do you think he is?[/quote']

he KNEW that 9 was coming

[alf13 0]

he KNEW that 9 was coming

I heard that he "Felt it".

[fakeusername2 0]

if we are to base ones ability on one particular play, viewed through an extensively edited medium then we can all be guilty of being a donkey. My point was that unless you play with someone over an extended period of time(day in day out) and are either consistently beating him or watching him get beat by others, you can't accurately call him a donkey. that one play you refer to may have been "donkish"(if ther is such a word). in addition we only have limited information on that game. we did not see what happened the hand or few before.(hands shown on tv are rarely consecutive) we do not know the mood of the players leading up to that hand. we do not know the tone of the game leading up t0 that point. etc. etc. although the player you are refering to with poket kks was playing tight, that might have only been percieved that way because of the editing. he could have stolen 3 or 4 uncontested small pots leading up to that hand, that wasnt aired.or tuan could have made a real bone head play as you said. again my point is that it is very presumptuous to make an overall evaluation based on one incident.i think alot of people here are calling him donkey because they dont like him or his style for one reason or another. similar to people either hating or loving a guy like hellmuth. i dont think the word donkey is being used appropriately.to me a donkey is someone who would loose at any level of poker. for example i dont think someone who excels at a limit of 15-30 is a donkey if he can't hang at 40-80. maybe he just hasn't been able to make the proper adjustments to playing with higher caliber players. but he has to have some advance level of skills to beat the 15-30 game.

[Incubus77546 0]

What strikes me is how so many of this forums' members feel they have an impeccable knowledge of how the game is to be played successfully. so much so as to call anyone who doesnt fall along the guidelines of their strategy a donkey.

Thank you I said this already but you put it in such better words and still I think people will disagree... sadly. And for the Gus thing I remember a little hand where he called a "Magician" and was a major underdog and when he sucked out he couldnt stop saying "Oh my God" But Im not dissing Hansen cuz I respect him very much Im just pointing out that he has aggressive flaws just like everyone else and dont judge Tuan from TV.

[alf13 0]

fakeusername,You don't seem to know what a Donkey is......You have "fish" or "pigeon" or "rabbit" confused with "DONKEY".A great player can DONK OUT on occasion.....Matusow is famous for it....it is the infamous "Matusow blow up" His blow ups are DONK OUTS.Now...if you are consistently blowing up....you are thus a DONKEY.You can still be dangerous and a pain in the azz to play against as I am sure Tuan is.DONKEY does not imply BAD PLAYER.....It doesn't.ALL of us DONK OUT on occassion...

[TS Clark 0]

What strikes me is how so many of this forums' members feel they have an impeccable knowledge of how the game is to be played successfully. so much so as to call anyone who doesnt fall along the guidelines of their strategy a donkey.

Thank you I said this already but you put it in such better words and still I think people will disagree... sadly. And for the Gus thing I remember a little hand where he called a "Magician" and was a major underdog and when he sucked out he couldnt stop saying "Oh my God" But Im not dissing Hansen cuz I respect him very much Im just pointing out that he has aggressive flaws just like everyone else and dont judge Tuan from TV.

If you are referring to the hand where Gus called with a 10-8 to Esfandiari's 77, then he wasn't a "major underdog." Preflop this is a coinflip -- the 77 is only a slight favorite. And Hansen said he thought Antonio had a small pocket pair, so he called.It was a coinflip -- not a "suckout" as you say. Don't confuse one with the other.

[fakeusername2 0]

im not here to get into a pis sing contest. he's a old friend so il continue to defend him if need be and u dont have much resect for his ability so im sure ul continue to berate him. thers no end. so i will cease to debate his skill level with some of you. you all have ur right to criticize and i never stated otherwise. i just said it wont be taken seriously by those that matter.(him, me, others that play at these levels)in fact there are alot of donkeys as you might say here at the upper level of commerce casino. if you ever get a chance, alf, you should come visit. il promise ther will be an open seat for you. however if you are from miami like your profile states, the only high stakes poker you probably play is limited to online. i could be mistaken but i do not know of any big stakes poker being played at local card rooms in miami.im not saying tuan is a top tier pro or even as good as many might percieve. im just saying he is far from a donkey. so if going into a pot as the underdog in a couple of hands at a large tournement defines you as a donkey i guess you can call doyle brunson a donkey for going all in with 10-3(for his 10th braclet) into a pot that minh ly had only limped in for when blinds were still relative enough to make plenty of plays after flop. no he was trying to steal blinds, set a tone for the heads up, punish minh for limping with weak hands, and to take a gamble.point being you may not agree with an individuals move or you may see a clearly better action upon veiwing the situation with hole cards visable, but poker is based on working limited information at hand. the perfect play is obvious when monday morning qbing.

[fakeusername2 0]

fakeusername, You don't seem to know what a Donkey is...... You have "fish" or "pigeon" or "rabbit" confused with "DONKEY". A great player can DONK OUT on occasion.....Matusow is famous for it....it is the infamous "Matusow blow up" His blow ups are DONK OUTS. Now...if you are consistently blowing up....you are thus a DONKEY. You can still be dangerous and a pain in the azz to play against as I am sure Tuan is. DONKEY does not imply BAD PLAYER.....It doesn't. ALL of us DONK OUT on occassion...If this is the case, i apologize.perhaps my definition of donkey was not correct.

[thebolb33 0]

I still love the clip of him calling Temp's all-in when they were 3 handed.Temp -"You probably got me."Tuan- "Naw. I've just got eight high."Temp-"Huh?"Tuan (Turning over cards) "See. I've got eight high."The close-up on Temp's face is classic. One of the funniest moments on Poker T.V.I'm sure Tuan isn't as big of a donk as he appears. Winning Foxwoods and following it up with WPT Championship speaks to that.That said, I can still think of 10 players I would bet my life on before him.

Only 10???100+

[alf13 0]

Here in Miami there is HIGHER stakes games...you just have to know how to find them.and fakeusername....I hope you weren't implying that i should show up to commerce to get "schooled" ......First of all...I wouldn't sit with Tuan and his "crew"...I am not into playing against guys softplaying each other and for all intents and purposes robbing me.But in ALL HUMILITY...IN ALL HUMILITY.....I would "school" your boy......all games....not just idiot holdem....Am I confident? YES....Am I boastful? Arrogant? YES...YES....But I can play this fukin game....As for the limits I play...the highest I have played is 25/$50 NL Holdem and 40/80 Limit.....so yeah...I am another low limit punk....Trust me when I tell you that "limits" don't matter....fish are fish and pigeons stay pigeons...just the numbers change.

[Stewdio 0]

NOW...where he ceases to be a great or even a good player is the decisions he seems to make on a regular basis in even the two tourney's he won. A VERY WELL KNOWN POKER PRO I met once and had a conversation with told me in the course of a long conversation that you can always tell who the best players are.....they are the ones that always seem to consistently put their money in the center as a favorite.

This sounds like a Phil Hellmuth book. That's how a tight player wins, not how a loose one wins. Doyle Brunson isn't nearly as agressive as Tuan or Gus Hansen, and even he says most of his big pots will be played with him as an underdog. Tuan certainly got lucky to win both tourneys that he did, but making those final tables came from more than 3 consecutive days of bad beating someone. He could afford most of the underdog hands he was in due to the amount of chips he "stole" in other hands. AK vs. KK not included of course, along with a couple others. So it takes "luck" for him to do well with his style of play. Wow, what a conviction that is. There've been a lot of luckless tourney wins. Phil Hellmuth hasn't won a single large field tourney since Tuan won those two. He's still better, but playing like he does doesn't garuntee anything.

[alf13 0]

This sounds like a Phil Hellmuth book.  That's how a tight player wins, not how a loose one wins.  Doyle Brunson isn't nearly as agressive as Tuan or Gus Hansen, and even he says most of his big pots will be played with him as an underdog.  Tuan certainly got lucky to win both tourneys that he did, but making those final tables came from more than 3 consecutive days of bad beating someone.  He could afford most of the underdog hands he was in due to the amount of chips he "stole" in other hands.  AK vs. KK not included of course, along with a couple others.  So it takes "luck" for him to do well with his style of play.  Wow, what a conviction that is.  There've been a lot of luckless tourney wins.  Phil Hellmuth hasn't won a single large field tourney since Tuan won those two.  He's still better, but playing like he does doesn't garuntee anything.

How wrong can you be. On everything you wrote. BTW...for the last time...Hellmuth is hardly a tight player....I am getting sick of hearing this BS on here.BTW...the poker pro in question has a reputation as a LAG. It is just a bedrock of good play. When you are allin?...don't you want to have the best hand? Good players chop chop chop chop away.....and when they committ all their chips to a pot they are pretty damn sure that they have the best hand....through reads...flow....and experience.

[blueodum 0]

Limits do matter.A player that can beat an 80/160 game easily might get crushed in the 4000/8000 game.Alf,More than likely you aren't as good as you think you are. Perhaps you are also less intelligent than you think you are, if your willingness to judge a player based on the limited number of hands shown on TV is any indication.

[PAYforUSC 0]

he KNEW that 9 was coming

I heard that he "Felt it".

[alf13 0]

Limits do matter.A player that can beat an 80/160 game easily might get crushed in the 4000/8000 game.Alf,More than likely you aren't as good as you think you are. Perhaps you are also less intelligent than you think you are, if your willingness to judge a player based on the limited number of hands shown on TV is any indication.

A) You don't know what the fuk you are talking about. B) You are comparing apples and oranges.C) I am as good as I think I am.D) I am at least 10 times more intelligent than you judging by your post.E) I did not say that I formed my opinion on Tuan by what I saw on TV.F) Learn to fukin read.

[Stewdio 0]

Sorry that I couldn't be more wrong, but I'll try again. I'm not saying it's someone's goal to get allin as an underdog, but Doyle himself says that his play will end up with him down. I'm sure your LAG pro has won more than Doyle, but I'll continue to be a book ho.

[alf13 0]

For those that can't read.....I form my opinion on Tuan on these things:A) Hand Histories of the Tourneys he has played.B) A HAND FOR HAND TRANSCRIPT of his WPT championship win.C) I saw him play for three hours on LIVE AT THE BIKE....seeing his hole cards and watching him throw away 50k like a moron. D) What Mike Matusow and a few other pros have said about what they think about his ability.

[alf13 0]

Sorry that I couldn't be more wrong, but I'll try again.  I'm not saying it's someone's goal to get allin as an underdog, but Doyle himself says that his play will end up with him down.  I'm sure your LAG pro has won more than Doyle, but I'll continue to be a book ho.

I understand completely what you are saying...but it doesn't apply to Tuan.We are talking about "retard strength" here.I actually agree with what you are saying...it just doesn't apply to Tuan.There is no ryhme or reason to what he does....

[JayPaav 0]

just to keep it all real, there is no one way to play poker - with each person play differs accordingly and according to sitaution. you cant tuan a donk just because of how he has played in some live games - haven't we all had bad sessions. if everyone was always winning (which oddly seems the case with everyone who is asked this question) there would be no losers. what im tyring to say is that you can't fault tuan for his style just because it is not how you play....

[blueodum 0]

I respect Matusow's opinion, but I have to question how many hours he's sat at the table with Tuan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mike doesn't play in the Cali casinos much if at all. And I don't think they've been in very many tournaments together, so I can't see that it's at all likely Mike has sat at the table with Tuan very much if at all.The Cardplayer histories don't provide definitive evidence because of the absence of hole card information.The Live at the Bike is the best evidence, but one session of sub-par play (according to you) isn't evidence of overall lack of skill. Greenstein says in his book that there are sessions during which he plays terribly - that's when he calls it an early night so that he minimizes the damage (and incidentally, he regards this as a major difference between himself and most of his peers).Nevertheless, it sounds like Tuan is still an inexperienced cash game player - someone wrote in this thread that he got in over his head for awhile. Like Hellmuth, Tuan could end up being a great tournament player and a mediocre cash game player.Time will tell.But the most important point is that the hostility towards Tuan and other players who've cashed big in major tournaments emerging from the hoi paloi of the poker forum world is more indicative of THEIR jealousies and insecurities than of anything else.