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Actuary

reading about it is lots easier. lhe aq aug 9

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in the heat of battle, I can't think what the best play is...how's this ?Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is UTG with Ad, Qh. Actuary raises, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (9.50 SB) Qd, Kc, 3c (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (9.25 BB) Ts (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.River: (12.25 BB) 3s (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Final Pot: 15.25 BBthis time I called down...

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Why raise on the flop? If your answer was to get information, then you got it but ignored it! I would have just snooth called on the flop. You don't have a marginal hand that needs to be protected. I would look to lose the minimum here and MAYBE fold the river after calling the flop and turn since you have outs. SInce your opponent three bet from the BB he likely has AA, AK, KK, or maybe QQ JJ. You can't beat any of those hands other than the JJ and if he had that hand protecting your AQ would be unneccesary. You COULD have called the flop and folded the turn actually. If you know your opponent has AA, AK, or KK, you'd be drawing to two wins against the first two hands. If he has KK you'd have 4 outs. After all that mumbo jumbo, I think calling the flop and folding the turn is the BEST option followed by calling the flop, turn, and river.

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After all that mumbo jumbo, I think calling the flop and folding the turn is the BEST option followed by calling the flop, turn, and river.
I'm with the noob on this one.

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I just wanted to add something that I left out of my initial response. You have to discount your gutshot outs heavily, not only because one could complete a flush, but because you will split the pot with anyone who has an Ace.

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holy cow.I'm honored to be stickied.Daniel, you choose and type fast...anyway..defending the play..or at least what I thought at the time...I would say you give way too limited of a range of 3-betting hands..for this stakes..players do crazy things (just look at me)given it was 3-way..throw in 77-TT, AQ-A10/A7s....KQ-K9s...some never raise..some raise silly stufffor what it's worthWhat about raising the flop to protect against the flush or str8 draws...mp3 might haveEven getting 3-bet on the flop doesn't make it 90% certain...Calling down a 10BB then 12BB pot is wrong?I was thinking wa/wb...the str8 and flush draws notwithstanding..but I wasn't going to raise again.what makes anyone so sure I'm beat? 90% of the time.MP3 was a fish, BB was aggress..but only based on about 20 Pt hands..so assume no read, I did.maybe I'm a fish...I'll keep reading these and postingedit:Almost forgot..thanks to all for the critiques once again. 8)

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holy cow.I'm honored to be stickied.Daniel, you choose and type fast...anyway..defending the play..or at least what I thought at the time...I would say you give way too limited of a range of 3-betting hands..for this stakes..players do crazy things  (just look at me)given it was 3-way..throw in 77-TT, AQ-A10/A7s....KQ-K9s...some never raise..some raise silly stufffor what it's worthWhat about raising the flop to protect against the flush or str8 draws...mp3 might haveEven getting 3-bet on the flop doesn't make it 90% certain...Calling down a 10BB then 12BB pot is wrong?I was thinking wa/wb...the str8 and flush draws notwithstanding..but I wasn't going to raise again.what makes anyone so sure I'm beat? 90% of the time.MP3 was a fish, BB was aggress..but only based on about 20 Pt hands..so assume no read, I did.maybe I'm a fish...I'll keep reading these and postingedit:Almost forgot..thanks to all for the critiques once again. 8)
"I would say you give way too limited of a range of 3-betting hands..for this stakes..players do crazy things "You cant use this as an excuse for poor calling/raising. Just because it is low limits doesnt mean every opponent is a maniac/fish. If anything, they play more straightforward and simple, such as his 3-bet pre-flop, indicating a strong hand. True, some opponents will reraise with poor hands, but what hand exacly do you have beat, besides a low pocket pair?AJ AK AA KK QQ 1010 all have you beat. Even marginal/poor raising hands have you beat (K10,Q10,K9,KJ,KQ)"What about raising the flop to protect against the flush or str8 draws...mp3 might have"Why protect against these draws when you yourself are probably well behind in the hand against the BB? Whether he hits his draw and beats you or he doesnt and the BB beats you, you're still beat and youd still be putting unnecessary bets into the pot. Unless you have incredible reads on both opponents and somehow you know that the BB is bluffing (unlikely)or on a low pocket pair (also unlikely) and that the other player is defintley on a draw, there's no reason to jam.

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Here is a common misconception: You CAN'T "protect" against a flush draw. If player number three happens to have one, he ain't folding. If he happens to have 10-J, he ain't folding. The only legitimate draw you can protect against is a gut shot straight draw (4 outs). Not worth risking a raise IMO. I talked to Erick Lindgren about the hand tonight and he agreed with me 100%. In fact, he thought raising the flop would be an absolutely horrible play. He'd likey fold the turn also since he may only have two pure outs and a couple split outs.

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Here is a common misconception: You CAN'T "protect" against a flush draw. If player number three happens to have one, he ain't folding.  If he happens to have 10-J, he ain't folding.  
this is great advice. Many players will go to the river with a flush draw regardless of the odds, so if they have the odds, all your raise is doing is making it even more correct for them to call, and you are just padding the pot with a second best hand.daniel, what is your play here if we call the flop, and we make aces up on the turn(with a complete flush draw, and w/o completing the flush draw). Cause that would really make things interestingI'm only calling this down if the villian is a complete lag, if a general player I peel and fold UI

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in the heat of battle, I can't think what the best play is...how's this ?Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is UTG with Ad, Qh.    Actuary raises, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (9.50 SB) Qd, Kc, 3c (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (9.25 BB) Ts (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.River: (12.25 BB) 3s (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Final Pot: 15.25 BBthis time I called down...
I probably wouldn't raise with AQo UTG. I might call, I might fold, but 4 of 5 times I'm not bringing it in for a raise there.After the BB's 3 bet, its hard to NOT put him on a big hand. Im looking to flop 3 queens here, or a straight etc. But just hitting a queen isn't good enough. Against KK your drawing practically dead, against AA you are drawing to a queen, etc. With only 1.5BB invested, I say its time to move on. Calling the BB's 3 bet is an easy call imo, but once you only hit seccond pair on the flop, and are facing a bet from the BB raiser, I say its time to move on.

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After all that mumbo jumbo, I think calling the flop and folding the turn is the BEST option followed by calling the flop, turn, and river.
I just don't understand why you would just call him down the rest of the way. IMO that seems like a really weak play with a really weak hand ( 2nd pair, best kicker ) when for all we know you could be drawing EXTREMLEY slim. What happens if you DO hit one of your "gin" cards on the river, lets say an ace, BB bets, you raise it and are three-bet? I really think either folding on the flop ( my first choice ), or calling the flop and folding an un-improved turn are the best options. But I would NEVER just call that hand down till the end.Maybe im wrong here, and If I am so be it... but I just don't see the value in calling the rest of the way.

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the better had AQ (not clubs) for the split3rd player had 9,T :club: FWIW, I'll stop posting hands here, conicidentally, I say that on the one Daniel picked out of the hat, but that's just coincidence...I appreciate his time.The reason is I'm unable to properly reconcile what the consensus is from hand to hand. Many of you are great players, while most of you are parrots for those players. I guarantee I could re-post a hand posted by {fill-in-the-blank-with-solid-poster/player} and claim it as mine..and it'll get ripped.Until I'm able to better sort the good from the absolute horrible advice given here, it's best to remain quiet. Otherwise I'll keep getting bitter or frustrated as other have and take it to personal.Obviously, I have a ton to learn, and am not a strong player, barely winning in sshe. It's just the range and seemingly inconsistent and OP biased advice that's getting to me.It's not you, its me.thanks for all the time taken to crtique hands posted.sincerley,Actuary.

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I probably wouldn't raise with AQo UTG. I might call, I might fold, but 4 of 5 times I'm not bringing it in for a raise there. Folding AQ UTG is incredibly weak.

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I probably wouldn't raise with AQo UTG. I might call, I might fold, but 4 of 5 times I'm not bringing it in for a raise there. Folding AQ UTG is incredibly weak.
In a 10 handed ring game? I don't think so. Thats my opinion though.Theres a big difference between AQo and AQ suited.

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Theres a big difference between AQo and AQ suited.Of course there is but AQ is still too strong of a hand to fold. Sure you don't have any information yet but still, folding it seems way too weak to me. I may be the wrong one but more often than not, I think you MUST play it UTG.

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FWIW, I'll stop posting hands here, conicidentally, I say that on the one Daniel picked out of the hat, but that's just coincidence...I appreciate his time.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Absolutely do no such thing! Seriously. I read the hands you post every day and look for them. You might not always FEEL like you're getting anything out of the feedback, but all the discussion makes you THINK about what you're doing. That's the most important thing. So keep posting. Really.

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I probably wouldn't raise with AQo UTG. I might call, I might fold, but 4 of 5 times I'm not bringing it in for a raise there.
I think you just might dislike money. A-Q offsuit is a standard PF raise in an unopened pot.... yes, even from UTG.

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FWIW, I'll stop posting hands here, conicidentally, I say that on the one Daniel picked out of the hat, but that's just coincidence...I appreciate his time.
Actuary, stop being a donk. You know we enjoy your hand posts. One thing you might want to try is posting the hand, and your thoughts on each stage of betting. Why you are making the play you are... and what other options you considered but decided against.Seriously, the motives behind each decision you make are of much greater importance than the outcome of the hand.

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The reason I thought raising the flop might be OK (although I would probably call) is that BB 3-betting standards could be a wider than normal. If he 3-bets TT or 99, then our raise might get him to slow down and let us take the lead.But I'm reconsidering since we're way ahead of those hands and we can't protect against other draws (since they don't fold). Maybe we'll fold a gutshot.

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Obviously, I have a ton to learn, and am not a strong player, barely winning in sshe. It's just the range and seemingly inconsistent and OP biased advice that's getting to me.
I'm worse than you and I'll still post hands here. Part of the joy of poker is that there is no "right" answer. There are better and worse answers but no right answer. Therefore you'll get a wide variety of responses. My favorites are actually the hands where some of the venerated posters disagree - Akishore and Smash come to opposite conclusions.Plus remember that it's about a billion times easier to look at a posted hand and come up with the best (or better) play than it is to make that play in the heat of the moment. I looked at this and said "call the flop, fold the turn" but in reality I probably don't play it that way in the heat of the moment. Reconciling that "what you should do" with "what you did" is the key to becoming a better player. Sort of how chess players work - they can't possibly look at all potential plays and how they play out but they can use past experiences to help winnow down the options to a reasonable number.At any rate I hope you keep posting because I learn stuff when you do.Oh and if they guy re-raises pre-flop with AQo put him in your buddy list and try to play with him as often as possible. :club:

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Here is a common misconception: You CAN'T "protect" against a flush draw. If player number three happens to have one, he ain't folding. If he happens to have 10-J, he ain't folding. The only legitimate draw you can protect against is a gut shot straight draw (4 outs). Not worth risking a raise IMO. I talked to Erick Lindgren about the hand tonight and he agreed with me 100%. In fact, he thought raising the flop would be an absolutely horrible play. He'd likey fold the turn also since he may only have two pure outs and a couple split outs.
Good point. This is something I have come to realize recently (silly really since it's so obvious). However, I think when people say "protect" against the flush draw, what is also implied here is making the draws pay more to get there, so that in the long run, you are making more money.I'm not saying that 3 betting the flop is right in this situation, but just in general, when someone says that they raised to protect against the flush draw, what this really means is either:1) Raise to stop someone from staying in for runner-runner flush (this happens a lot, even with a raise, believe me).2) Raise to make the draw pay as much as possible.Given point 2) above, I have recently started to do more calling on the flop and raising on the turn to get more bets in, especially in situations where I am pretty sure that I am going to win the hand, as long as the draw doesn't hit . This of course depends on the players involved and their style, and what position you are in. I still do a lot of flop raising as well. I'm not sure if I am completely right in holding off on the raise until the turn in some situations, but it feels right. Any thoughts?

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in the heat of battle, I can't think what the best play is...how's this ?Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is UTG with Ad, Qh. Actuary raises, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (9.50 SB) Qd, Kc, 3c (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (9.25 BB) Ts (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.River: (12.25 BB) 3s (3 players)BB bets, Actuary calls, MP3 calls.Final Pot: 15.25 BBthis time I called down...
I like the pre-flop raise...i've been preaching a lot lately about hating the limp when first in a pot.I also would have raised the flop more times than not I believe. MP3 calling is a bonus IMO.The turn improved our number of outs if we are behind. Call it down from here I think.River didn't help us, didn't help anyone else you would think. Call it down IMO. 8)Only other way to play it would be to possibly fold after the raise/3-bet on the flop, but you would have to have a lot of info on your opponents I believe to do that. :?

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