dan druff speaks on dn

[KDawgCometh 2]

[i do however respect his challenge matches. they're for a ton of money, but why is he doing all this? if he is as good as he and the rest of us think he is why not hook his claws into the big bellagio game and have the chance to bust a barry greenstein type of player over time with much less variance. my only guess is he's a paid employee of the wynn casino, and with these challenge matches he can control when and where he plays poker, it's still for a ton of money, and it gives him more time for the business side of things. i'm very interested to see where daniel will be in one year's time. best case scenerio: still doing his challenge matches, winning more than losing. his face plastered all around the poker community with ties in all aspects of poker media. or worst case scenerio, he loses a decent amount of these matches and has to quit playing them. the wynn's biggest game is a 40/80 holdem game(correct?), so he's stuck grinding it out there and back at PS because he's under contract with the wynn.

well, he can't play at the bellagio as per his deal with wynn. He is contractually tied to play at the wynn for something like 200-250 days a year, or something like that if I remember correctly. So basically I think the challenges are a design to get a high limit game going at the wynn, they;ve spread 400-800 several times as Allen Cunningham and Paul Phillips have played in them, so who knows what the deal is with that game

[emineric 0]

thanks kdawg, i wonder how much action that 400/800 game gets?and yes, i am the one who posted on NWP that DN is taking the path of a phil hellmuth. what i mean by this is it seems he's letting the business side overtake the actual poker playing, grinding it out, getting better everyday side of the spectrum. he has criticized hellmuth for exactly this in the past, and now he's following in the big boy's footsteps.

[KDawgCometh 2]

thanks kdawg, i wonder how much action that 400/800 game gets?

I've only heard of it a couple of times, so I don't think that its a normal thing, though I wouldn't doubt that it will turn into the Wynn's version of the Big game and have a bunch of DN's friends be the regular pros at it. I know that in Paul's blog he has wrote about playing in it a time or two, so It probably spreads every now and then, but they are probably concentrating on the challenge matches to show off the poker room, and whenever DN is done with the challenge matches that they'll spread high limit games. I know that soon after the Wynn opened there was a 50-100NL game that was spread there with Mr. Rocks&Rings and EDog playing in it. I can't see how DN would attach himself to the casino like that w/o some very high games being spread, jsut wouldn't make sense since he was dong all right in the big game at the bellagio

[Loismustdie 0]

thanks kdawg, i wonder how much action that 400/800 game gets?and yes, i am the one who posted on NWP that DN is taking the path of a phil hellmuth. what i mean by this is it seems he's letting the business side overtake the actual poker playing, grinding it out, getting better everyday side of the spectrum. he has criticized hellmuth for exactly this in the past, and now he's following in the big boy's footsteps.

No, he's not. Right now he's really taking the time to play quite a few guys heads up for big money- Helmuth is doing the opposite, showing up on UB to play like s hit for an hour and donate because that is his job. Dan is still playing he is just trying different challenges right now. That being said DN is capatalizing on his marketing value as much as possible and undoubtedly more than we know. So what? Diversification is a good thing in any portfolio which is essentially what he is building. Is the time there for him to sit down for 8 hours a night with the boys anymore? No. Does he need to? No. He has already proved he can do that, hence the heads up challenge matches where he can try and prove something else, probably more to himself than you or I.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

This is actually kind of annoying. No, I didn't "chunk off" a big lead in that tournament. I sure did have a huge lead and kept if for quite a while. Then the limits went up, I played three hands PERFECTLY and got crushed on the river by a three outer, a flush, and a two outer. Yeah, I gave away my chips allright... oh brother. Seriously people, all you have control over is making the right decisions. When the cards spit in your face there is no secret formula for avoiding disaster. The guy finished 1st and 3rd which is awesome. It can also distort your perception of reality. He is a good player- I remember playing at Stars with him- but he will soon understand that luck plays a significant role in the late stages of any tournament, ESPECIALLY limit hold'em. Last year I finished 1st and 7th in two WSOP limit hold'em events. This year I cashed in precisely two events, both limit hold'em (36/22). I played well in both those tournaments, but couldn't get lucky late in the tournament. Happens. As for me not being focused, or giving my chips away, or blah, blah, blah, all I can say is that I don't want to moan about the beats I took, but what exactly can you do about this: A guy won't stop raising me when I have the absolute nuts and he has two pair late in a tournament. The board pairs on the river and I'm the donkey who chunked off my chips. The board doesn't pair and I'm a genius again, LOL. :-)

[InsanityCubed 0]

This is actually kind of annoying.  No, I didn't "chunk off" a big lead in that tournament.  I sure did have a huge lead and kept if for quite a while.  Then the limits went up, I played three hands PERFECTLY and got crushed on the river by a three outer, a flush, and a two outer.  Yeah, I gave away my chips allright... oh brother.  Seriously people, all you have control over is making the right decisions.  When the cards spit in your face there is no secret formula for avoiding disaster.  The guy finished 1st and 3rd which is awesome.  It can also distort your perception of reality.  He is a good player- I remember playing at Stars with him- but he will soon understand that luck plays a significant role in the late stages of any tournament, ESPECIALLY limit hold'em.  Last year I finished 1st and 7th in two WSOP limit hold'em events.  This year I cashed in precisely two events, both limit hold'em (36/22).  I played well in both those tournaments, but couldn't get lucky late in the tournament.  Happens.    As for me not being focused, or giving my chips away, or blah, blah, blah, all I can say is that I don't want to moan about the beats I took, but what exactly can you do about this:  A guy won't stop raising me when I have the absolute nuts and he has two pair late in a tournament.  The board pairs on the river and I'm the donkey who chunked off my chips.  The board doesn't pair and I'm a genius again, LOL. :-)

THANK YOU for summing it up so well. When I first saw this post I couldn't believe that you would dump chips like you supposedly did in this tourney. I'm very glad you responded to this thread, you know your capabilities and I'm sure you know when you screw up, but for someone to claim that you dumped off chips in a LHE WSOP event is just silly.

[hoosierAKs 0]

This is actually kind of annoying.  No, I didn't "chunk off" a big lead in that tournament.  I sure did have a huge lead and kept if for quite a while.  Then the limits went up, I played three hands PERFECTLY and got crushed on the river by a three outer, a flush, and a two outer.  Yeah, I gave away my chips allright... oh brother.  Seriously people, all you have control over is making the right decisions.  When the cards spit in your face there is no secret formula for avoiding disaster.  The guy finished 1st and 3rd which is awesome.  It can also distort your perception of reality.  He is a good player- I remember playing at Stars with him- but he will soon understand that luck plays a significant role in the late stages of any tournament, ESPECIALLY limit hold'em.  Last year I finished 1st and 7th in two WSOP limit hold'em events.  This year I cashed in precisely two events, both limit hold'em (36/22).  I played well in both those tournaments, but couldn't get lucky late in the tournament.  Happens.    As for me not being focused, or giving my chips away, or blah, blah, blah, all I can say is that I don't want to moan about the beats I took, but what exactly can you do about this:  A guy won't stop raising me when I have the absolute nuts and he has two pair late in a tournament.  The board pairs on the river and I'm the donkey who chunked off my chips.  The board doesn't pair and I'm a genius again, LOL. :-)

Move this BS to the Bad Beat forum please, mods..........sw.

[Socko669 0]

atta boy Daniel...I was hoping you would get a chance to respond.We all know that the true test of poker is in the long run. Dandruff/Witteles had a great year at the WSOP, good for him. He does seem cocky and full of himself and his bracelet...lets see where he goes with it. He has no right to come off like a holier than thou prince of poker based on his results thus far. I don't doubt his skill or potential, but the dude needs to take it down a notch until he's shown some longevity and long term results. Anyways, i think Neverwin is tool.

[BC4Jesus 0]

This is actually kind of annoying.  No, I didn't "chunk off" a big lead in that tournament.  I sure did have a huge lead and kept if for quite a while.  Then the limits went up, I played three hands PERFECTLY and got crushed on the river by a three outer, a flush, and a two outer.  Yeah, I gave away my chips allright... oh brother.  Seriously people, all you have control over is making the right decisions.  When the cards spit in your face there is no secret formula for avoiding disaster.  The guy finished 1st and 3rd which is awesome.  It can also distort your perception of reality.  He is a good player- I remember playing at Stars with him- but he will soon understand that luck plays a significant role in the late stages of any tournament, ESPECIALLY limit hold'em.  Last year I finished 1st and 7th in two WSOP limit hold'em events.  This year I cashed in precisely two events, both limit hold'em (36/22).  I played well in both those tournaments, but couldn't get lucky late in the tournament.  Happens.    As for me not being focused, or giving my chips away, or blah, blah, blah, all I can say is that I don't want to moan about the beats I took, but what exactly can you do about this:  A guy won't stop raising me when I have the absolute nuts and he has two pair late in a tournament.  The board pairs on the river and I'm the donkey who chunked off my chips.  The board doesn't pair and I'm a genius again, LOL. :-)

Well, Daniel...I wasn't going to post at all in this thread because frankly it pissed me off. Of all the professional poker players out there, I respect your play, gameminship (spelling?), and "person" more than any of the other professionals out there. That's not to say that there aren't other players out there that are good and that I respect. I'm still in the beginning stages (or maybe middle now) of learning the "game" and I can tell you honestly that I study your play more than any of the others. I'm learning alot about people, reading them, playing the cards right, etc. I've also learned that poker is so incredibly exciting because the tables can turn unexpectedly at the drop of a hat. I think that once you have established an incredible record of play like you have, people expect you to automatically win every single game you play; and that is unfair.Note: If I'm not mistaken, your 500,000 challenge was/is open to anyone. I think it's interesting that the "critic" of the original post in this thread hasn't taken you up on your offer since he is obviously the best poker player in the world (yeah, right). He didn't say those words in his post, but I'm getting to where I can tell alot about people in their actions and words and frankly, he needs to eat some humble pie.

[Dan Druff 0]

I wanted to respond to everyone's comments regarding a post of mine that I knew would become controversial. I tried to say everything in a respectful and non-egotistical manner, yet still I managed to offend some people here. So be it.First off, I wanted to post here earlier today, but this site has an annoying restriction that disallows any Yahoo address. After trying multiple addresses and finding them all "banned", I finally gave up. I figured that it might be a situation where all free e-mail sites were banned, but I didn't feel like bothering with experimenting further at that point. Finally, someone from neverwinpoker made me an account with their e-mail at school. So here I am.I'm glad to see that Daniel took the time to respond to my post -- which wasn't even originally designated to be made on this forum. Again, as I mentioned in my original message, Daniel and I were never at the same table. I was only going on hearsay, regarding the way Daniel both built up and lost his gigantic middle-stage stack. I was told that he played wildly at the beginning and hit miracle upon miracle, thus building up his stack quickly. While people did note that he took some really rough beats to allow his stack to evaporate so quickly, others stated that he was playing too many hands and set himself up for this to happen. Again, this is only hearsay. Maybe the players who told me this were poor judges of his play, or they were simply bitter about beats he had given them. I don't know. Obviously I can't verify the truthfulness of any of this.I don't understand how people are taking my post as an indication that I have a big ego. At no point in my post did I brag about myself, put Daniel's skills down, or anything that would be representative of someone who sees himself as the world's greatest player. For those of you that don't know my story, I'm a cash game player. I never gave a second thought to big tournaments until this year's WSOP, at which point I decided to give it a whirl. I made 3rd in my first one, 1st in my second. I'm proud of those accomplishments, but I also realize that a fair share of luck was required. I don't expect to final table at every tournament, and in fact already got a dose of harsh tournament reality when I was bad beat quickly out of the main event.I'm also aware that cards play a large role in your success during the later stages of tournaments. I had the chip lead at one point at the final table in the 1500 Limit event, yet I lost the majority of my stack within a period of 25 minutes when I simply got cold-decked during 3-handed play.The point of my post was not to rub it in Daniel's face that I won the event and he didn't. The reason I posted that was simply to express my surprise that an experienced, successful player such as Daniel wasn't able to hold onto such a humungous lead at a limit event. When I saw him with the 70k stack, I was just about 100% sure that he'd be at the final table, and I felt that he'd likely take the whole thing. When I saw that he had the lowest stack as day 1 was ending, I had to do a double-take. After he busted, various players were talking about him, and the consensus was that, while he took some terrible beats, some of his losing was his own doing. I was surprised to hear that, but at the same time, with all of the recent "Daniel has lost focus" talk, it almost made sense when putting the two together.Look, if it turns out that the truth is simply that Daniel ran into unavoidable high-chip-loss situations, then I apologize for insinuating that he might have been reckless. I guess I'll never know the true answer to this one, and really when it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter. If Daniel is honestly playing as well as he always has, then his results will show again in the long run. One bad WSOP means nothing. Anyone can have a run of terrible luck.Finally, some people jumped on me for identifying myself as a "one-time fan" of Daniel Negreanu. I used those words because, as a high limit player myself these days, I don't really see myself as a "fan" of any particular players anymore. However, there are still players whom I respect, and Daniel has always been one of them. While there have been various insults hurled Daniel's way on neverwinpoker, I never participated in any of that. I even struggled with myself whether I should make the post that I did, but I decided to anyway. I was careful to be respectful and non-insulting with the way I presented everything.One of the reasons I always respected Daniel's game was that he was one of the few strong tournament players who also maintained a strong cash game. Too often, you'll find that some "TV pros" are surprisingly clueless when it comes to playing cash games -- especially limit cash games. From what I have seen and heard, Daniel is strong in both areas, and not just at one particular game. I hope that his recent outside ventures haven't taken their toll on his bread-and-butter poker game. It's too early for me or anyone else to judge, but I posted something to indicate a suspicion (though based somewhat on hearsay) that something may have changed.I hope this clears things up. I'll check back here in the coming days for your responses.-Todd

[chipsnski 0]

Wow.Two Professionals acting like Professionals. Nice posts guys.

[ajs510 122]

Nice 1st post Todd, congrats on your WSOP and welcome to FCP. Hopefully you'll become a regular here and not just another lurker

[krup24 0]

Very well said Todd, it's nice of you to take the time to clear up misconceptions and hearsay.Your always welcome here in my eyes.

[dna4ever 2]

Nice response post. Well said.

[speedz99 145]

Classy. Very classy.What's the deal with the DN bashing over there anyways? I know you said you stay out of it, but some of the stuff they say is ridiculous and I'm sure one post from you or Dustin would calm it down. Just a thought.

[Guest]

Todd sounds very eloquent and well spoken. Good response.........

[Guest]

Classy.  Very classy.What's the deal with the DN bashing over there anyways?  I know you said you stay out of it, but some of the stuff they say is ridiculous and I'm sure one post from you or Dustin would calm it down.  Just a thought.

Our forum kinda didn't help that one. I always thought the FCPvs. Neverwin crap was kind of silly. I was hoping to play in the tournament though; if only because I haven't played online in months. It would've been a nice comeback. It wasnt just Neverwin's forum bashing DN. Hell, I have no idea what was said there, only that there was at least some Neverwin bashing by FCP.and honestly, who really gives a shit? Neverwin seems cool. His forum is a place to talk poker. Hell, I can get behind that

[Jelly-Filled Ace 1]

Congrats on achieving your comeuppance DD.Just remember Daniel got his comeuppance first.

[marchingant 0]

What's the deal with the DN bashing over there anyways?

Seems that most of the people over there think of DN in the same light that some over here do -- that he's having a down year and is stretching himself thin, and that's showing in his results.But because they say it over there it's "bashing," while here it's "critiquing."More people dog neverwin at this forum than NWP dogs DN.

[marchingant 0]

Just remember Daniel got his comeuppance first.

NWP does bash on people that say shit like this though... and for good reason, I might add.

[Dan Druff 0]

You have to understand neverwinpoker.There is a more serious poker-discussion area (The "Ask Dan Druff" forum), and then there's the "Shooting Off" forum, where basically anything goes.Basically nothing is censored on that site. You also have to do a whole lot to ever get banned from there. Often the forums there have a locker-room mentality, but it's a fun place to be if you aren't offended too easily. I participate there because it's entertaining. It's off-the-wall without being too over-the-top. The only thing that's not allowed there is spam, for obvious reasons.I've always preferred a censorship-free forum environment where people can be real and say what's really on their mind. Even though the site is called "neverwinpoker", people are allowed to insult and criticize neverwin (or me, or anyone else) all they want, without fear of losing their access or having their posts deleted. I think that such openness is good for an internet forum. After all, how offensive can anything be that's typed by strangers over the internet?So, to answer someon's question, it's not likely that neverwin or anyone else will put a stop to the DN bashing going on there. It's nothing against Daniel personally, but censoring the bashing of anyone would go against the spirit of the site.

[lboarts 0]

Dan Druff,After reading the OP on this thread, my first impression was that you were way out of line, and my initial reaction was to tell you to STFU.After reading your subsequent posts on here, I believe I may have been too hasty in jumping to my conclusions. You seem like a bright, articulate fellow who could add volumes of useful information to any discussion related to poker.Therefore, I would like to apologize for my earlier posts, please do not STFU. I congratulate you on your success at this year's wsop and wish you continued success in the future.Now, if you'll excuse me, I believe my humble pie is done.lboarts

[extempore 1]

Some of you don't play limit tournaments. Given that I made 3rd and 1st place in the two I've played, I came to realize something. There's no excuse for chunking off a big lead in a limit tournament.

With such a wealth of experience, how could he be off base?I wonder if guys who buy one ticket and win the lottery presume to tell the other players about their number-choosing errors.I look forward to his discovering regression to the mean.

[justblaze 0]

Some of you don't play limit tournaments. Given that I made 3rd and 1st place in the two I've played, I came to realize something. There's no excuse for chunking off a big lead in a limit tournament.

With such a wealth of experience, how could he be off base?I wonder if guys who buy one ticket and win the lottery presume to tell the other players about their number-choosing errors.I look forward to his discovering regression to the mean.

check out his latest post over at NWP. its already happening.

[rforman13 0]

Some of you don't play limit tournaments. Given that I made 3rd and 1st place in the two I've played, I came to realize something. There's no excuse for chunking off a big lead in a limit tournament.

With such a wealth of experience, how could he be off base?I wonder if guys who buy one ticket and win the lottery presume to tell the other players about their number-choosing errors.I look forward to his discovering regression to the mean.

Wow.... Paul Phillips jumping in on this one...too funny. Paul, I have to say that I enjoy your blog, as well as your past posts on RGP. You are a very funny guy, but you are also a prick sometimes. You are so going to be just like Gary Carson in like 20 years. Watch. This guy is a successful cash game player for 10 years or so, playing limits up to 400/800 if I am not mistaken. He is a limit holdem specialist, and claims to be nothing more....the fact that he final tabled HARD in his first and only two major tourney events in LHE is not variance. Sure...he probably caught a few more hands than other people, but don't act like he bought two lucky lottery tickets. Thats just ignorant. So were your WPT final tables a few years ago just a fluke and now you are regressing to the mean?? Anyway...as to the NWP vs. FCP thing...I think it is all just in good fun. Rivalries are always fun, but you need someone worthy as an opponent. Of course most NWP's probably admire and respect DN as well. Its nothing against DN. I think it all actually started with some ripping on NW's game....which I myself have done in the past having played with him live for a couple of years. They were just sticking up for their boy, and now the shenanigans have begun. No harm no foul...just have fun with it.